Hodgkin's Survivors/Secondary Breast Cancer

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  • cme531
    cme531 Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2011

    By the way, would anyone go back to the same surgeon for the mastectomy?  I really feel he holds the blame for this situation because he knew about my Hodgkins, but was also the one to give me the lumpectomy/mastectomy choice.  The surgery was done before he referred me to oncology, which was obviously a huge mistake...

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    Hi CME 531,

    I was suggested 4 different types of construction: something called a strattish mesh (here in England) using pig skin on the outside; and reconstruction using fat from my tummy, back or thighs.  Because of radiation damage to my tummy and having so little fat there (at the time!) I decided my inner thighs and gracilis muscles there.  I have a separate thread running on this forum - if you search "TUG" reconstruction you should find it - it documents my progress.  Others on this side have threads on the DIEP reconstruction (tummy) and latimus dorsi (sp?).

    As to your surgeon for the mastectomies/reconstruction - you are allowed to ask them (and they must answer you) how many of these surgeries they have done, how many were successful, how many unsuccessful, what are the complications - find out who will be doing your surgery as sometimes their assistants do the surgery not them.

    As to being positive, thank you, I try to relax and always think to the future when I'll be feeling better.  It seems to help my stomach nausea and stress - I try to relax my body and it relaxes my mind and I can respond to my issues in a more positive way. That's just my strength - when I was in the hospital - I spent time with all the other patients in my room (6 of us here in the UK) to chat with them and relax them a bit.

    You have so much to life for with your family.  You will get through to the other side of all this stress and anguish soon.  Think of your future and have some goals to work towards.  Mine is to learn to ride the motorbike I bought last March - something I've wanted to do since I was a young teen.

  • Catesmom
    Catesmom Member Posts: 280
    edited August 2011

    Hi! I've never felt compelled to reply to a subject board until now. My heart goes out to you. I was diagnosed in 1989 with HL and had upper mantle radiation. I was diagnosed with BC in January-4 month after a negative mammogram. I found the lump myself. In hidesight all of my docs now tell me that those of us who have had mantle radiation should get breast MRI's because they are much better at diagnosing BC. I am a nurse so I get to pick from the docs I consider the best. I personally decided to have a bilateral mastectomy (cancer only on the right) mostly because I have seen too many women come in 5 years later with cancer on the other side. My PS who I totally respect his opinion said he was most comfortable using tissue expanders in my case because of previous abdominal surgeries and also because I was too thin to get fat from elsewhere. He says after radiation what he worries most about is the skin. I had my surgery in Feb and so far everything is great. The worst thing about tissue expanders is that they are uncomfortable and you feel like you are carrying rocks on your chest. Two friends of mine have had this done and they assure me that once the expanders are replaced with the permanent silicone ones they felt better almost immediately. The down side is you have to leave them in at least 3 months after chemo is completed. At this point now I am finished with my chemo and my PET scan was clear. halleljah! My case was presented to a tumor board and they recommend no radiation for now. Some of the radiation oncologists now say that they aren't completely against localized radiation for those of us who have had rad before. Case by case. Take good care of yourself and best of luck. Whatever you decide it has to be right for you. Also don't forget to eat well- Johns Hopkins just came out with new dietary recommendations- breathe, and it's okay to cry. Stay strong-we've already been through this once and can do it again. We are survivors. DX 1-7-11. Stage IIIA Type 3 5/9 lymph nodes

  • cme531
    cme531 Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2011

    Hi Catesmom,

       From what I have been reading over the weekend, I thought the option for tissue expanders and implants would no longer be an option since I have had radiation...?  So now I am thinking I might need the latissimus dorsi flap?  

    One of the most difficult things right now is going to be finding someone whose opinion I trust. Through this whole process, I have not seen my regular physician (an internist) whom I love.  (I had my pre op physical with a physicians assistant.)  The surgeon was the one who gave me the choice of lumpectomy/radiation vs mastectomy and then I saw the plastic surgeon so that I could make a well informed choice.  After surgery, I met with the oncologist but it wasn't until I saw the radiology oncologist last week that I found out radiation should never have been one of my options.  So now I don't know who to trust.  I put my faith in each and every one of them...  I made phone calls last week to my primary, the plastic surgeon and the oncologist but since it was a Friday, none of them have returned my call yet.  

    Tomorrow should be an interesting day since I expect to hear from all of them.  I also have an appointment with the surgeon in the morning.  It was actually set up in the middle of last week after I spoke with his nurse about the pain and tenderness I am still feeling.  I hadn't intended to keep this appointment, because I don't plan to stay with him after all this.  But my sister is encouraging me to go and ask him just what the ???? happened here.

    I question the qualifications of all of them now and have no idea where to turn to and whom to trust.

    By the way, I did not have lypmh node involvement so I do not need chemo.  Did your PS give you a choice of tissue expanders vs other options? 

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    Hi Catesmom,

    Thanks for sharing your experiences especially being a nurse.  I'm sorry you are going through BC having survived HL - they learn so much all the time though - hopefully they will now screen and follow-up with HL patients more thoroughly.

    Yes, I remember my surgeons saying the radiated skin was what they worried about in reconstruction.  By the way, my breasts using my thigh tissue ache daily especially at the end of the day - no matter which bra I use - the surgical support or a regular bra (or even none).

    As to rads, my oncologist said the dose I had would matter most and my rad dose had been quite high so they wouldn't do rads (over 5,000 when they coned down to the lymphoma itself).

  • Catesmom
    Catesmom Member Posts: 280
    edited August 2011

    Hi CME531 and Lifelover! I think for a layerperson finding docs you trust can be hard. I'm in the enviable position of being a recovery nurse so I know all the surgeons and their work. My surgeon and I had talked about this for years and I was actually talking to herabout a preventative mastectomy when I found the lump. She's actually the head of the BC dept at my hospital. For finding a great surgeon I would check with your primary care doc, your hospital-if they have a bc center, and on line ratings. You really need someone who is available and will take the time to teach you about the whole process. I met with everyone prior to surgery including my oncologist. To find her I basically asked my surgeon who she would go to if she were diagnosed with BC. I also knew my PS and yes, he explained all of my options. The 2 surgeries he thought would be the best for me was either the tissue expanders or where they remove fat from the abdomen-like a tummy tuck-and move it to the breast. I didn't have enough fat for that though. He said if the first surgery failed her would send me to another PS who specializes in a kind of surgery where they pull the muscle from the abdomen up to the chest. He said I didn't have enough tissue for the lat-dorsi flap. I've had no problem with the tissue expanders but I will say they have been inflating them slowly and I am not trying to get to a large size-just a B cup. My skin is holding up very well so far. If the decision had been made to give me localized radiation he told me the have to add more saline to that side to account for shinkage of skin w/ rad. Do you have a local breast cancer support center? They may be able to give you more info about your local docs. It's hard to know what to do especially when you don't know any of them. Your surgeon did a real disservice to you by not having you see the oncologist first. As far as PS go-I think you have to listen to their options and try to make an informed decision (as you obviously are). Each person is very different and what may be right for one isn't necessarily right for another.

    And lifelover-thank you for starting this discussion panel. I know a lot of women with BC but haven't met anyone who had Hogkins too. It throws a different twist on things for sure. I'm not sure of how much rad I received but I was told it was the "max lifetime dose". There has been alot of discussion a the tumor board meetings about my case and some of the rad oncologists say they would not give additional rad and some say yes to localized areas-especially to bone areas. I had a suspicious area of my spine which may have been cancer-unsure but it was gone after chemo. if it had lit up on my PET scan almost all of the them said radiate it. They also use much lower doses now. We also need to watch for other kinds of cancer because of rad-skin,toungue,esophagus,lung, and my onc just had me get a total hysterectomy for 2 reasons-rad and my tumor likes estrogen and she couldn't just put me on tamoxifen because I have a clotting disorder and it would be to high of a risk for blood clots. She also had me get a colonoscopy and upper endoscopy. I'm not upset about these risks either because I had 20 great years of health before this diagnosis because of the radiation I received. About 5-10 years before my rad treatment a lot of people died from HL because they were still learning how to treat it. I feel very fortunate. A lot of docs I know think they are close to finding a real cure for cancer. The funny thing is- I don't think it's going to be chemo or radiation. I think in 20 years from now people will say "can you believe they did that!". For right now it's the best we have. And by the way-for breast reconstruction I've never heard of taking tissue from the thigh but I don't see why not. It's probably a difference in medical practices in other countries. And I feel bad for you that it hurts so much. I hope it improves over time.

  • Fighter_34
    Fighter_34 Member Posts: 834
    edited August 2011

    Hi Ladies I belong here after researching my health records. GREAT RIGHT!

    Dx w/ Hodgkin's back in 89. I was in middle school didn't even know what was going on w/ me. My mother wasn't the most talkative person.

    Later Dx w/ TNBC August of last year (found the lump myself) and completed 6 rounds of TC in Feb. Decided to go w/ BLMX and exchange surgery happened 6/9/2011. For the most part I feel good, never had any major health issues other than Hod and BC. I am very optimistic about my future. I work w/ two ONC and neither see a reason why I wouldn't be here to raise my two jitter bugs.

    I am doing everything in my power to stay cancer feel. I just wish I knew early so that I could have done more to help myself. I have book marked this page and I will come back periodically to update.

    TAKE CARE AND WELL WISHES!!!

  • Fighter_34
    Fighter_34 Member Posts: 834
    edited August 2011

    Adding my implants look great. I will have to have some fat grafting done later this year, but I am happy with the outcome and just ready for them to settle and become more use to me.

    It was mention that being radiated would be a problem but it turned out not to me.

    Will cherish EVERYDAY!
    Diagnosis: 8/30/2010, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

  • MegM
    MegM Member Posts: 56
    edited August 2011

    Hi, I had Hodgkin;s at 14 (1984) and was also very radiated.. I developed Thyroid cancer at 25 after watching a nodule on it for many years.. and now at 40 dx with DCIS... I had a BMX on JUly 1st and am undergoing the "fun"of  tissue expanders at the moment.  I am doing so much better now than I was in May when diagnosed.. I was so fed up and mad... my heart goes out to all of you who also have to deal with all this.  It is hard to keep everything in perspective some days, but I am trying.  I had (so far) no issues with skin and expanders....

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    Thanks for your informative email Catesmom!



    Welcome Fighter and Meg. It's great to hear from you both with your experiences.



    I agree that I was fortunate there was a cure for HL and I lived 17 years cancer free. I'll get over BC soon!

  • cme531
    cme531 Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2011

    I feel like I have new friends and am so grateful.  Feeling alot more optimistic today and talked with 3 of my physicians yesterday...  too long of a story to post right now as I must head to work.  But I am wondering if any of you (with breast cancer on one side) went through genetic counseling before decided to have BMX.  All three of the physicians are encouraging this rather than just jumping the gun.  Just curious about the rest of you and if you were advised the same thing.   Love...

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011
    Hi CME - no genetic counseling was recommended or sought by me.  I chose the BMX based on the mantle radiation I received for HL and the risks of BC where I was radiated.
  • MegM
    MegM Member Posts: 56
    edited August 2011

    I had the gene testing done... it was $3000 but my surgeon said they wouldn't do it until my insurance said they would pay it...about a month ago I got a bill from my insur. company saying they weren't paying it, but there was also a note that they hadn't received info they requested and I haven't gotten a bill from the lab so I am not worring about it yet... my new attitude since BC.. I worry about as little as possible until it is right on top of me:)  I was negative, but I found out more for piece of mind with my daughter (she is 5 years old) and also for the risk of ovarian cancer, but I was doing BMX either way, for me I had multifocal DCIS and lumpectomy wasn't an option without needing reconstruction anyway... and with out having radiation as a backup I was a sure thing for a single MX, but I know I would always worry my self sick about the other side.. even though  I read on here somewhere a woman who said " if you had cancer in one arm you wouldn't cut off both arms".. that was the only quote I ever found that had me thinking maybe not to do the BMX, (and one of the surgeons I consulted with wasn't really behind the idea..ironically that one was the so called expert at Sloan Kettering... but the other 2 I saw supported my decision), and then once I considered my reconstruction options BMX was the only option for me.  It is a very hard choice and only you will know what is right for you when you finally make it, I think it is harder having all these options and what ifs.. I felt soooo much better once I had a game plan and could get busy getting rid of the cancer.  Hope you find your answer soon.. do what feesl right for you and will give you the greatest peace.  I have not regretted my BMX one bit ( I am 5 weeks post op) but the tissue expanderas are not fun... they did get a lot better once I started getting fills, but I wouldn't want them long term.

  • Fighter_34
    Fighter_34 Member Posts: 834
    edited August 2011

    CME531- Yes, I had genetic testing and everything came back normal; which is great.

    And yes it feels good to have found you two. Hopefully someone will come along who is further from Dx to give us more encouragement....

    Take care and hang in there ladies...

  • cme531
    cme531 Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2011

    Hello friends - confusion, confusion, confusion.  I am at a point now where my mind is much more at peace with the very unfortunate, unncessary surgery I underwent.  I just received the paperwork to start genetics counseling.  I am all for this but will now have to tell my mom what I am going through. I have had this diagnosis for a few months but have kept it from her because she is 92 years old, very sound but very much a worrier.  I really didn't want to have to burden her with this during her final years but there is no other family for me to get the detailed history from.  What I am really torn about right now is whether to have one or both breasts removed.  My physicians (primary, oncologist, present radiology oncologist and past radiology oncologist) all say the same thing...  it is an option but they don't feel I need to do something that drastic (unless the genetics counseling shows otherwise.)  They are all supportive of the idea but don't necessarily recommend it.  I COMPLETELY trust my primary doctor and my old radiology oncologist, who previously also had Hodgkin's Disease.  I tracked him down in another state since he has moved during the past 19 years, but he took my phone call yesterday.  Can you ladies that made the decision to have BMX, especially those with negative genetics counseling, tell me what your deciding factor was?  Also if anyone has percentages of breast cancer after radiation for Hodgkin's or recurrance in the SECOND breast or know where to find accurate information, please tell me.  I guess I like "numbers" as they seem to put things in better perspective for me.  I am attaching a note from my oncologist, but this number seems really low to me.  It is impossible to know who to believe.  Any help would be so much appreciated.  Love to you all...

    Response from my oncologist: The overall risk for developing breast cancer 25 years after therapy for Hodgkin's is 3.5 percent for women who received radiation therapy at age 30.  This risk is higher in the left breast if you received radiation to the spleen area and lower in the R breast. Some studies find no increased risk if the radiation was given after age 30...     (I was 33).

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    CME, it's difficult to find current research on these statistics. My oncologist couldn't address them because he says it is so difficult to be accurate. There is new research out there but it is slow in coming to the public attention.



    There is an older HL thread on here and figures 50 percent were touted as the risk. This seems quite high and I do not know if it is accurate or just fear. 3.5 does not seem right. I would have thought it higher.



    I was 34 when I had my mantle rad for HL.



    I will try to do some more Internet searching but it seems to me that there would be research at some medical centre accessible to our oncologists.



    Anyone else who can help CME?

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/27/26/4229.full



    appears to be a good article with newer research.

  • Fighter_34
    Fighter_34 Member Posts: 834
    edited August 2011

    I was told my risk for developing BC was higher than the general public. Couldn't remeber the statistics because I was just Dx'ed and emotional, but that's what lead me to have a BLMX. I wanted to take the what 'if' out of things. 

    If I would have known earlier about my status I would have done the nipple sparring BLMX. There's a young lady on the reconstruction board that did this. She's a hottie and has moved on with her life. She wasn't Dx'ed she just didn't want to get that awful Dx. My biggest problem is being treated multiple times, because that will bring on another set of problems.

    I love my results I will have to get some revision work done. It was a process to get this far, but I am happy w/ my decision. Hey my new girls won't sag EVER. LOL Just praying for a little more feeling in the near future so I can feel a little more complete, but all is well.

  • bbbsmom
    bbbsmom Member Posts: 4
    edited August 2011

    Hi. I am 25 years post HL and am having a bilat. mastectomy with immediate reconstruction next month. We see the PS this Wed. I would love to talk to others in the same situation.

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    Hi bbbsmom!

    There are quite a few of us here on this thread.  I am almost 18 years post HL and currently in chemo.  I received rads to my mantle and my BC developed just in front of my windpipe where my HL was and where I was most heavily radiated.  I opted for bilateral because of risk of developing BC in other breast and so that I'd have some symmetry.

    Will you have chemo and rads?  Most of us here can't have anymore rads because of having what they call our "lifetime maximum" rad dose during HL treatment.

    How are you coping?  Where you diagnosed with BC or are you having a prophylactic BMX?

    I'm sorry you are joining this group but you will find a lot of support from the Ladies here.

    I see you're from Rochester.  Although I live in England now I grew up in Scranton, PA.

  • MegM
    MegM Member Posts: 56
    edited August 2011

    bbbsmom.. we sound like twins.... I live near Syracuse now, but grew up in Waterloo and had my Hodgkins treated at Strong about 25 years ago, I am 40 now.. think it was 1984/85?  I was diagnosed with DCIS  around May had a  BMX July 1st and have TE's in now... I almost went to Vega for PS but luckily found a PS in my area that I LOVE so it saved a lot of driving for me..  my advice is take your time finding the right plastic surgeon for you.. he is gonna be your buddy for a while :)

    I was so depressed when I was diagnosed... am sooooooooo much better now and doing well if I can do anything for you let me know, it helps a lot to have someone to talk to PM me anytime, I would love to chat on the phone if you are comfortable with that, I know I had a hard time talking about it for the first few weeks and email was my security blanket to get emotion out with out  crying my heart out...

    Lifelover .. I went to school in Philly and was always driving thru Scranton on my way home.. also went out with a total A**hole from Scranton, but that is another story... wow England is a big change huh?  I was considering the TUG, but ended up doing TE"S.. how was the TUG recovery?  just curious.

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    Hi Meg,

    Yeah, England has been a challenge but I love where I live now and I'm so fortunate to have such good health care.  I just miss my family most, oh yeah, and pizza and Mexican food.

    The TUG was difficult and the area can be prone to infections but I was lucky I never had any serious complications.  They were able to construct nipples for my breasts using the skin of my thighs.  Kind of cool.  It's such a personal decision.  I don't regret having a TUG but I do wonder what it would be like if I'd had implants put in. 

  • MegM
    MegM Member Posts: 56
    edited August 2011

    I think I am doing the thigh skin thing for my nipples.. not looking forward to that part of this, have to get to exchange first b/4 I really think about it.  I watched a youtube video of nipple construct using the skin on the boobs and just twisting it and then tattoos.. I almost passed out, for some reason makes me very queasy, I definitely want what ever one they do under general anesthesia.. I do not want to be awake for it.

    The implant route isn't a lot of fun either, I think tissue expanders were invented by some man who hated women... they are so weird, at least they are now at the point of being just strange and hard, at first they were so painful.  I hate the fill process, doesn't really hurt it is just so freaky and then tight for a day or 2. 

  • cme531
    cme531 Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2011

    I haven't posted for a few days...  in all honestly, as much as I want to hear what you all have been through and had done (I have been reading other message boards as well), I also find it utterly confusing.  It's almost as if there are too many choices and I have absolutely no idea how to decide.

    I went to see the plastic surgeon again yesterday.  The first time I saw him (prior to my lumpectomy) we were talking about tissue expanders and implants.  Apparently, no one was aware of the massive doses of radiation that were standard protocol 19 years ago, so my options for reconstruction have changed.  Tissue expanders are no longer a choice for me, and I may not be able to have the latissimus dorsi flap either.  He is checking with my old radiologist to see the exact area that was radiated previously.  My new alternatives include the TRAM free flap, possibly the SIEA flap and the DIEP flap. I have to wait almost a month for a consult to make sure the referral is apporved by my insurance.  Did any of you go through one of these surgeries?  I know very little about them, only that they are considered micro surgeries and are quite lengthly.  They (at least some of them) are performed by a team and the complications seem pretty severe to me if all does not go well.

    I really am at a place right now where I feel like I am just taking a leap of faith as to which procedure is right for me.  I guess there is no way to know for certain and that's just plain scarey!

    By the way, is anyone from Wisconsin?  I live near Madison WI and will hopefully be referred to UW Hospital/Clinics for further evaluation.   

  • lifelover
    lifelover Member Posts: 553
    edited August 2011

    Hi CME531,

    Yes, it is confusing, I agree - there is so much out there!

    There is a forum entitled "Surgery, Before and After" on this site and there are threads that discuss the DIEP procedure from Ladies who've had it. 

    I was originally going to have the DIEP until my plastic surgeon found out how much radiation I had to my stomach.  That's why I chose the TUG using my thighs. 

    Here in England they have support groups at some of the hospitals where Ladies who've had the surgery show their scars/results to those who are waiting to have theirs.  I was so impressed with the results I saw on other Ladies that I knew I wanted the TUG.

    Once I knew what I wanted, I just tried to keep calm and prepare myself for the surgery.  Afterwards, I just did everything the surgeons told me and focused myself on the future when I wouldn't be so uncomfortable.  By the way, I never needed more than over-the-counter pain meds after surgery.  I was never in very much pain, just uncomfortable.  But they will give you whatever drugs you need so you are not in pain.

  • cme531
    cme531 Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2011
    Thanks lifelover...  I always feel a lot more optimistic after reading your posts Wink
  • MegM
    MegM Member Posts: 56
    edited August 2011

    I originally thought I would need the Diep, but they said I would only come out a small A cup because of doing both sides from my stomache.. I had the massive chest radiation for HD and never had skin issues, I did the skin sparing BMX and have no problems at all skin wise with the TE's... I think some PS's automatically rule us out for implants b/c of the radiation but that isn't always the case.  I almost went for the TUG, but I have 3 young kids and didn't want to be away from them that long as I wouldn't do the surgury near my home.  for something that complicated I wanted to go somewhere that does them everyday.... New orleans and Charlotte have a great center that can take the normal 12 hour procedure down to 4-5 hours.  I have heard the TUG gives the most realistic results as the tissue is the most like breast tissue.  If you like your plastic surgeon stick with him/her, but feel free to get some other opinions, I went for 3 different opinions and actually cancelled the fourth one I had scheduled after my consult with PS #3 as I just knew he was the one for me.. What ever you choose they are all great options, and you can do it.  I think the 6 weeks between when I got diagnosed to my actual surgery was the hardest time, it is so hard not knowing what to do, I was so much more positive once "the ball got rolling" and I actually felt like I was doing something to beat this.  Take your time, at the time for me I didn't believe everyone saying that this is a slow moving disease and you have time to explore your options... I am glad now I searched around.. but at the time it was so hard and confusing.

  • Kadyann
    Kadyann Member Posts: 53
    edited August 2011

    Hi all,

    I had LD reconstruction with an implant as there was concern about stretching radiated skin.  I was able to get a size D cup for symetry(sp?) as I only did the one side (a decision I now regret sometimes).  However, I did have a recurrence on the mastectomy side which was in breast tissue so a mastectomy does not mean your totally safe from bc.  In fact, my doctor and surgeon at the Mayo Clinic both say that an elective mastectomy of my "good breast" has not been proven in studies to increase long term survival for whatever that is worth.  As far as risk goes, I have been told that the age you were when you received the radiation for hd matters a great deal.  The risk appears to be much higher (I have seen 30% and higher) if you were 20 or younger.  Something about breast tissue still maturing in these years.  It also decreases risk if you had already given birth.  Interesting.  As for the lung cancer risk, I am hoping my boobs soaked up all that radiation and spared my lungs!

  • Fighter_34
    Fighter_34 Member Posts: 834
    edited August 2011

    Kadyann: welcome and hey I like you already. Prior to dx I was a triple DDD, so I pray those big HOOTERS got the raidiation instead of my lungs too.

    Anyone taking supplements or working with a holistic doctor?? I do and I feel it is the least I can do for myself.

    BBBSMOM: are you doing this as a preventative measure?

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