"FACT CHECK" flag?

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thenewme
thenewme Member Posts: 1,611

It would be great if there was a way to politely and respectfully "flag" a post that includes information that is factually incorrect or dangerous or blatantly crosses a line between opinion and fact.

Posting factual responses to this type of information has not worked well for me.  It would be nice if we could just post some kind of blurb to help clarify something like  "...the integrity of the information in this  post should be carefully researched with credible sources, as it appears it may possibly conflict with known facts"  or something to that effect.   Even if it was merely a button we could press, similar to the "spam" or "rule violation" buttons to request review by one of BCOs medical experts or something...?   *Something* to alert readers of the controversial nature of a post - sort of a caveat emptor beyond the fine print disclaimers, and post specific.  Not to argue or  stop discussion or pass judgment, just to inform.

Obviously this would have to be carefully worded to disinvite abuse, and I'm certainly not saying  I have the absolute truth or everyone should adhere to MY rules or choices.  I know this is a discussion forum and we can't censor viewpoints but IMHO, blatant medical advice and incorrect facts, etc can and should be pointed out.

Some people complain that they're tired of me and others posting refutations or factual information, claiming that they should be allowed their opinions and discussions. However, if BCOs mission is to offer legitimate and evidence-based support for real breast cancer patients, something needs to change.  BCO should be responsible for the quality of its information, and allowing miracle cure posts and untruths to be posted and unchallenged diminishes its integrity.

Here is a very small sample of the kinds of posts I'm referring to that, IMHO, cross the line:

"Only 10% of smokers get lung cancer. What about the other 90%? They don't get lung cancer because their bodies have fought off the carinogenic effects. But to read the Main Stream Media, Smoking=Lung Cancer. What nonsense. "

"There is no incentive, now, to cure cancer. Or, to cure any disease. As has been touted, endlessly, we spend 16.5% of our GDP on medical payments. If we didn't do that, anymore, how many countless people would be out of a job. "

"Of course, if we could just take what is currently known, Budwig, Vitamin D, Burzynski, Gerson, the list goes on and on and on and just prevent disease, as you said. All of those newly healthy people, what propsperity might they create. Not to mention the former health care workers, freed up to improve our economy, even further. By taking productive jobs. "

"Yet, we cling to this self-induced disease/treatment mentality. "

"The sensor detects cancer in less than six minutes and the estimated cost would be less than one euro per test. Raluca-Ioana van Staden. "

"I believe that we can prevent our cancers. I've already had two cancers. And have come to realize that the source of all cancers is inflamation. So, just take that away."

"And you can do that with the FOCC. Another thread. And the D3. Another thread, as well."

"But this Susan Komen thread, cancer isn't cured by giving $$$ to Pink Ribbons. Cancer is cured by eating healthy food."

"I HAVE figured out the source of cancer.... . As I said, above, It is inflammation. That causes all cancers. "

"If you are taking 5000IU at once, that could make you feel horrible. Try doing something like 2000 (morning), 2000 (evening) 1000 (before bed) And take it with food. "

"All the meds you are on are probably contributing to the problem. So, you have to work extra hard to eliminate high glycemic foods. It's really not an option."

"The misinformation that most doctors have on iodine is apalling. The reason they think iodine causes one to go from hyper to hypo is that often the numbers will show a steep change because the thyroid is starved for iodine. This is usually temporary and does not usually mean one is actually hyper. For a full explaintion of this, with references to studies and files and a discusision that includes those who talk about the serious side effects of drugs like levothyroxine, join the yahoo iodine group. It is a fountain of information! Go to iodine4health.com for links."

"Here is an article that actually states that grape seed extract may mimic the effects of phamaceuticals. So why don't they just prescribe grape seed instead?"

"in the 1930s, Dr. Royal Rife was curing cancer with very gentle electromedicine "

"Here's another article about evil sunscreen"

"sunscreen (I call it deathcream) "

"Dr. Hal Huggins will b speaking. He is well respected for his research into toxins in dentistry. He speaks all over the world and he will be presenting his latest research at our gathering that he says will prove the links the with  breast cancer and toxic teeth."

"If you are interested in alternative therapies, you should watch the [Burzynski] documentary. And explore the science behind Antineoplastons. After thirty years of obstruction, he finally has the chance to enter Stage 3 FDA trials. Except that he needs the FDA's required $300,000,000 fee to do that. "

"Prescription drugs often come with serious side effects. Vitamins and supplements ,not so dangerous."

"Unlike Big Pharma, Big Herba doesn't spend billions of $$$ on advertising, convincing people they need to be hooked on drugs to find happiness. I've never seen an ad on television for wheat grass or milk thistle. "

"the use of a rife machine which definitely benefited me... "

"Overnight Cure For Cancer" (OCC), which was designed by an ICRF researcher, is so-named because it was designed specifically to safely revert all cancer cells in a person's body into normal cells within 24 hours "


"The best thing I have found for my hypothyroid is the far infrared sauna. ..... I do not sell them, because I want people to know my testimonial is honest, but I made a deal with the owner that he will give a discount to anyone who mentions my website. .... I could go on and on about how much I love this thing, and I have. lol If there is any way you can afford one. Buy it. You will feel amazing."


"Cancer is an all-natural process. Microbial enzymes produced by normal microbial genes cause cell mutations. The theory cannot be challenged by any known cancer observation. Based on the scientific method, the cause of cancer has been proven. The peer review process to confirm that the cause of cancer has been proven is in the hands of those who are concerned with keeping this knowledge from the public."

"for those of you who are stuck at a plateau, you might consider liver and colon cleanses. When you do a cleanse, the fat cells that store insulin will release toxins that store up there, and you will finally shed the extra pounds"

"Whether she decides to juice, take supplements, do therapies, it all comes down to taking immune boosters every hour on the hour "

"Its been proven scientifically that loving, kind, encouraging, motivating words can actually change the cells in the human body "

"I didn't give a testimonial in favor of Budwig. I said it DIDN'T work for me, though I did know others for whom it did. I don't know what else those people were doing, but I do know that they were supposedly following the protocol in its entirely which does NOT involve any sort of pharmaceuticals and/or supplements, so if they were being honest, the protocol was the only thing that could've helped them."

"Any true alternative seeker will never put any credence in anything the American Cancer Society says.  If they're not a front for chemo and radiation, I don't know who is. "

"a lack of D3 is why we are all sick "

"The Life Extension Foundation says you can take up to 50mg melatonin per night, safely.  And they also say that with breast cancer, we should take at LEAST 20mg per night. "

"Did you know that they have isolated 4 common bacterias from extracted root canal teeth that they have shown causes breast cancer?...... If you do not want to check out my blog, at least read Dr. Hal Huggins book, Uninformed Consent. "

"elastography-- its the latest clinically approved diagnostic tool for breast malignancies "

"There are physicians who strongly believe the Mammogram is brutal, archaic, and dangerous. "

"cannabis oil ala Rick Simpson, (I'm sure you know all about him and if not take a peek or google his name)"

"Start taking and I mean like now, Modified Citrus Pectin, IP-6, Maitake D Fraction extract, RM-10 by Garden of Life, Vitamin D, I take 10,000 IU a day with Super complex K by Life Extention, Vitamin C, I take 5000 mg. These are just a few things to get you started. Here is the deal, the real treatment to killing cancer cells is your immune system, chemo and radiation kill cancer cells, but not like your immune system, so first you want to stop feeding the cancer. Your body is amazing and it can heal itself if you give it the right tools."

"look into Wet Cupping, Blood Cupping, Bentosa, Bekam, Hijama or Hujama."

"As for the baking soda discussion. I was thinking about how someone was saying it produces acidity and then this lightbulb went off. I did an acid wash on my concrete patio. The directions were to spray it on the cement, and the acidic colorant, eats into the concrete and etches it and you get a new color that permeates, not just sit on the surface. Well, this etching process would continue unless you stop it. The way to stop the acid from eating up the concrete?? Baking Soda! I washed it down with a mixture of baking soda and water and the etching stops. Baking soda is not acidic. It is alkalie and it neutralizes acid. So it only makes sense that it is healthy. "

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Comments

  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited August 2011
    Thank you for your suggestion. Currently, both the discussion boards and chat rooms occur in real time and are not edited, censored, or otherwise controlled by Breastcancer.org. Breastcancer.org does not and cannot screen content provided by our members.

    We have hundreds of pages of information on our site that we take great efforts to have written, medically reviewed -- and based on research/studies/conferences. The purpose of the boards is to offer a place for our members to offer support, advice, suggestions, information, and discuss in a kind, respectful way without providing direct medical advice.

    While your suggestion is good, we need to use our editorial and medical reviewers and overall resources, for writing and reviewing the information for the content on our site, not the discussion boards.

    We welcome your input though. 

    Many thanks,

    Melissa and the Mods

  • Ellie1959
    Ellie1959 Member Posts: 316
    edited August 2011

    It was a good idea though.........., was all this stuff really on discussion boards? Wow - I guess fiction is stranger than truth IMHO -

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited August 2011

    Wow!  Wow.  What a terrible disservice, IMHO, for people who come here looking for credible and reliable health information and find instead find all sorts of recommendations for miracle cures and disproven quack treatments.  Frown

    Ok then, I guess I won't bother wasting my time offering evidence-based information either.

    I certainly understand this is a real-time discussion board and reviewing resources are limited.  However, again IMHO, there should be some mechanism in place to encourage, at the very least, additional research of blatantly dangerous, incomplete, or misinterpreted misinformation like the examples I posted above.

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited August 2011

    If anybody is looking for real medical advice on a message board, then they deserve what they get.  That's what their doctors are for.   I might go to a beauty forum to learn how to put false eyelashes on but if they tell me to use super glue and I do, that onus is on me.

    Anybody who confuses a discussion forum for a fact-based medical service probably shouldn't be on the internet at all. 

      

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited August 2011

    Hi Ellie, yes these were REAL examples from here!!  Some of these are so out-in-left-field that their absurdity jumps out, but I see examples on a daily basis of just plain old incorrect or dangerous information.

    It happens all over the board - just look how many people make erroneous assumptions like "if you have a mastectomy you won't need radiation" or "sentinel node biopsies are no longer recommended."  

    It happens especially often on the Alt/Integrative Forum, which is really frustrating for me since I've exhausted all my "conventional" treatment options and am at very high risk of recurrence, so I'm quite interested in FACTUAL, evidence-based information about other options.  I also am interested in OPINIONS and DISCUSSION/DEBATE about these options, as long as they're not presented as facts or medical advice.  

  • petjunkie
    petjunkie Member Posts: 317
    edited August 2011

    Honestly, people should not look to online discussion boards for "credible and reliable health information." Discussion boards are for discussion between regular folks, it's not a substitute for medical information. Trying to police an online discussion board is a losing battle, and I am glad to see that BCO is going to expend their resources on making sure the information they provide is fact-checked, not trying to get into arguments with random individuals posting on the internet.

    I really wish that more posters here could just take a step back, breathe, and realize that they can't control what other people may choose to believe about cancer and treatments. Agree to disagree and move on. . . come here for support from like-minded people and ignore those who you don't agree with. Neither side is ever going to change the other's minds.  

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited August 2011

    Hi thenewme ... I think it was a valiant try!  Sometimes, I just cringe by some of the the stuff I read that is purported to be fact.  It's a little scary.

    Please don't stop noting your credible sources .. I for one really appreciate it.

    hugs,

    Bren

  • revkat
    revkat Member Posts: 763
    edited August 2011

    thenewme -- thank you for your attempt. You are not the first person who has been frustrated, challenged, and insulted for attempting to bring established facts into discussions here. I spent numerous hours debunking claims about the Affortable Health Care Act until I finally realized it was a waste of my time. People, in general, are not rational agents. They believe or disbelieve things based not on established protocols but how how it feels to them and research has shown that showing them evidence to the contrary only strenghtens their beliefs! You have done your time in this thankless job. Someone else will come along to carry the torch of truth based on empirical evidence. The administration of BCO has made it clear that they view the discussion boards as an accessory to their site, not as a central feature and they don't have any desire to review it for dangerous or inaccurate statements. It would be good if they posted this prominently for lurkers and casual readers, but I think it is (or was) part of the terms of service for being a member. Those are currently changing and I'm not sure what we have agreed to by using these boards at this point.  

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited August 2011

    I sure wish we had a 'like' button on here like FB.  I agree with you Kat.  It reminds of the old statment "buyer beware."  I'm glad the mods responded as it's good to know to take what we read here with a grain of salt.

    Bren

  • Ellie1959
    Ellie1959 Member Posts: 316
    edited August 2011
    You mean you arent supposed to use super glue in your eyes???Cool - DAMN - that explains a lot. Seriously though, some people are very desperate for some kind of help and miraculous cure and it seems really irresponsible to let them be victimized and sold a bill of goods by charletains and special interest groups-
  • RetiredLibby
    RetiredLibby Member Posts: 1,992
    edited August 2011

    Ellie, I just wrote that same sentence about vicimization and deleted it ... so I'm just going to say yes, I agree with Ellie and RevKat and Bren and thenewme.  Desperate, frightened women will grasp at any straw ... and we have all heard the adage about "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."  Unfortunately, when you are terrified blind, it's not so easy to differentiate between snake oil and something beneficial. 

  • anonymice
    anonymice Member Posts: 532
    edited August 2011

    thenewme, I agree with you but also understand staffing constraints of the website.  I think that the message "this is a bulletin board and as such is comprised of OPINIONS, click here for medical content" should be conveyed a lot more obviously.  With all due respect, some people are not that bright or are not at all internet-savvy - they don't deserve to be made ill or die because of that because they've read about 10 really convincing women's stories with a new herb or something.  This site very much presents itself as an information resource and so the line between evidence and opinion should be very clear - particularly for a topic where we may be desperately searching for help.

  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited August 2011

    The discussion boards are a very important and central part of our site. When we started the discussion boards, the objective was for support, and exchange of experiences. We DO provide medically reviewed information on our site, with an entire team of editors and professional experts. However, we cannot possibly keep up with the 2,500 daily posts as to their "credibility". We greatly appreciate our members helping us with this, and posting articles, and info on the site. We also delete massive amounts of spam and posts that we feel provide direct, dangerous medical advice. We cannot control everything that is said, only that it is not being presented as "you must do this". We do welcome a dialog on this issue. This is in part the nature of discussion boards, versus our core content.  

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited August 2011

    Thanks, all for the input!

    CoolBreeze and PetJunkie, I think maybe you've misunderstood my point. 

    "Honestly, people should not look to online discussion boards for "credible and reliable health information."  

    But that's the thing - they (we) do!  For me personally, *real* information was the main reason I came here to BCO, and one reason I've stayed so long. It has been a great balance between information and friendly discussion, and it's what sets it apart from other sites I've been to. 

    If not for "credible and reliable health information," I'm just not sure why we even have all the forums we have here other than the friendly chat forums ???   I'm not saying anyone should ever rely on it as an online medical service or that BCO should review every single post.  Not at all. 

    Not to beat a dead horse, but I just think if someone says the flax and cottage cheese diet can cure cancer, I think it would be nice to put some sort of flag on that post so it can be either reviewed and corrected by a medical expert, or at least so that a little blurb is attached to the effect that "...Since flaxseed has phytoestrogenic effects, patients with estrogen receptor positive (ER+) type of breast cancer should use flaxseed with caution. Source: Sloan Ketteringor even a generic wikipedia-type footnote like "This post has been identified as containing information believed to be incorrect or misleading in light of current evidence-based research. Further research is needed."  or something!

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited August 2011

    "some people are not that bright or are not at all internet-savvy - they don't deserve to be made ill or die because of that because they've read about 10 really convincing women's stories with a new herb or something. This site very much presents itself as an information resource and so the line between evidence and opinion should be very clear - particularly for a topic where we may be desperately searching for help."

    Thank you, Pamonymous - perfectly said!

  • LisaAlissa
    LisaAlissa Member Posts: 1,092
    edited August 2011

    I really like the idea of a "fact check" button or flag (perhaps w/ a number in parentheses after it showing how many members were concerned w/ the "facts" in a post).  Then it would be up to readers to decide that they might want to look into whatever it is closely.

    That wouldn't require that BC.org utilize their editorial board to review anything.  Maybe there could be a link from the flag to a page saying that the content of the forums isn't reviewed by the editorial review boards at BC.org, one or more readers of the post that was flagged was concerned that some of the factual information in the flagged post may not be accurate.  As a note, remember that a post hasn't been flagged isn't necessarily accurate either.  You should always check the accuracy of any factual information on which you intend to rely.  May we suggest the editorial pages of BreastCancer.org.?

    Or something like that...

    LisaAlissa

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited August 2011

    LisaAlissa, I wish there was a "like"  button.  I like your idea a lot.

  • elmcity69
    elmcity69 Member Posts: 998
    edited August 2011

    Thenewme, I so appreciate this effort. As usual, you are straightforward, concise, and calm. Many of us could learn from you -and I count myself first in line, since I am UP TO HERE with the nonsense the trolls and troublemakers are creating on this board.

    How many smart, amazing, caring gals do we need to lose (I mean off the boards, not literally) before Mods clean this place up? I'm sure moderating this is a difficult job, but there is quite the manic gang creating trouble everywhere. We know who they are. I can ignore the trash talk and hocus pocus babble, but the viciousness and endless thread-making is ridiculous.I think members should be limited to the number of threads they can begin in a week/month/ etc.

    Thanks again for this effort, thenewme.

    janyce

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2011

    Looks like someone is job hunting...was wondering what was behind the deletion of her snarky posts on the many threads she invaded. Now we all know, she certainly does not want to be quoted back, now does she



    I quote: "SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT THAT BRIGHT" !?!!?!! And exactly who do you think YOU are ???



    The twin sister, back with a vengeance, as vitriolic as ever



    Are you now all tired of partying on the review site ?

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited August 2011

    Luan, you're out of line and I've reported your post.  I'm sick of your crap.  I'm not job hunting.  I deleted my INFORMATIONAL posts because I'm sick of people like you crapping on my efforts at providing useful and factual information, just like you're here now crapping on this post.  I don't give a flying rats ass what you quote from me, as I stand behind everything I've ever posted. 

    As to the twin sister thing, umm.... HUH?

    It's a fact - some people are not too bright, not too internet-savvy or research-minded.  Another fact is, when people come here after being diagnosed, they're all scared and overwhelmed and desperate and maybe not thinking clearly.  Anyone can do a search on my posts (no, I didn't bother deleting many, but may reconsider that) and make their own assessment of my intelligence in case that's an issue.  

    Umm, partying  on the review site???  I posted ONE review and several comments, every one being under my SAME user name that I use here.  I'm not sure who YOU think I am, but rest assured I have no time or inclination to create multiple identities or whatever it is that you're inferring.  Get a grip. 

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited August 2011

    I have to agree with Coolbreeze. No discussion forum anywhere on the internet is intended to be taken as equal to expert advice - or even fact-based advice. Discussion boards are just that and nothing else.

    Another thing: as much as no one should take what is said here for gospel, no one here should be in the business of giving medical advice, and too many people are. They are telling others what treatments to take and which to ignore. We are neither doctors nor experts and we need to remember that. No one should be told "you need chemo" or "you don't need chemo" statements like this abound and should not.

    Back to fact-based statements. I try to make sure that what I say is correct to the best of my knowledge, and I am sure that most other people do too. However, we are not in front of a review board. We are in the public arena. Just as, in old times, you had to take what you heard at the village square with a grain of salt, the same should be true for discussion boards. We all come here for support, and we cannot be expected to fact check everything we say.

    To be sure, there are egregious statements like the ones thenewme quotes in her OP HOWEVER, if we were to fact check properly, we would find that many of us make errors, misstatements, confusion of words, terms, etc... There has to be a place where people can speak freely without being held to expert standards or even standards where they are expected to be correct every time. I have never heard of a discussion board anywhere on the internet being held to anything different than the standard of laypeople sharing and bearing together.

    Finally, there is some natural moderation that takes place. Statements such as those quoted by thenewme were commented upon, and even a naive reader can figure out that, at the very least, the information therein contained is in dispute.

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited August 2011

    Edited out. Obsolete.

  • GirlFriday
    GirlFriday Member Posts: 461
    edited August 2011

    thenewme:  I think this was a brilliant idea, but I understand the limitations of the Mods and the functioning of the site.  FB has as all hooked on the like button but so often I need a dislike button.  I find the stalking, repetitive insults, and aggressive posting just as tedious as the lack of researched/cited information.  I toast to you and your idea. 

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited August 2011

    Thanks, elmcity69!  LOL, even my patience has limits as you can see by my previous post! 

    "I am UP TO HERE with the nonsense the trolls and troublemakers are creating on this board."

    Me too. 

  • 1Athena1
    1Athena1 Member Posts: 6,696
    edited August 2011

    hillck - I think such an excellent recommendation as you suggest could be attached to the entire forum. 

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited August 2011

    Cindy .. great post, I'm pushing the 'like' button.

    Bren

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2011

    thenewme reported

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2011

    and her twin sister

  • rosemary-b
    rosemary-b Member Posts: 2,006
    edited August 2011
  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited August 2011

    i have sent suggestions to the moderators to that effect: large disclaimers on opinions that claim to be facts in each forum....to help ease the sense of responsibility some members feel . though statistic based evidence is very helpful...

    Athena wins my vote

    for the record: i had to see a chest specialist for my athsma a few years ago...he 'told' me that not 10%, but only 5% of smokers get lung cancer!...to flag or not to flag? that is the question...

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