Understanding alt med "testimonials" for cancer cures

luv_gardening · August 2011

Thatslife, I've found it hard to find the prognosis for metastatic osteosarcoma (MSO) as it depends whether the mets are resectable. Gawler didn't have his mets surgically removed so his case would fall into a poorer prognosis. This is the best I could come up with.

http://sarcomahelp.org/research_center/osteosarcoma_lung_metastases.html

Lung metastases in osteosarcoma patients indicate poor prognosis. These patients represent a real challenge for physicians, because metastatic disease is frequently resistant to chemotherapy. In the last 20 years, modifications to the standard treatments for these patients have not made any significant changes in prognosis.

Overall there is a five year survival rate of 19% for MOS but Gawler's lung mets were extensive and he also had them in the hip.

For primary OS with adjuvant chemo, here are the 2 year DFS statistics.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198606193142502

Abstract
... At two years the actuarial relapse-free survival was 17 percent in the control group, similar to that found In studies before 1970, and 66 percent in the adjuvant-chemotherapy group (P<0.001). Similar results were observed among 77 additional patients who declined to undergo randomization but who elected observation or chemotherapy.

I suspect the recent review was an effort to stop people foregoing chemotherapy in favour of Gawler's methods which offer no guarantee. It sounds like they're claiming he never had mets. His surgeon reported mature cancellous tissue thirty years later, (see link in my older post), and the photographs show the visble bony prominences.

I think if I had OS I'd be using his methods with conventional treatments to give myself the best chance of survival. Unfortunately the side effects of OS chemo include deafness and cardiomyopathy. BC chemo is mild by comparison.

Anonymous · August 2011

Marianna, thanks for your perspective. That,s my whole point. Debating and requiring evidence based scientific studies proving that turmeric might be good for me is so irrational as to sound totally ludicrous.

thats-life- · August 2011

re ian gawler: the link in your earlier post was very very interesting jlw. i can see how the 60% survival with standard treatment nowdays, has mistakenly been applied to his case from the 70's. should amputation of his leg at the time/(resection these days), be interpreted as removal of the primary tumour do you think?

Merilee · August 2011

Prevention is so rarely discussed. Prevention in general and prevention of recurrance often becomes a nasty debate that is stress inducing. I happen to believe for me that stress was a major factor. I wish that people not interested in alternatives would just be kind and not come on here or better yet, just read and not comment. I am not seeing many people go on the conventional sites and try to tell people that their treatment plans are no good. For the record I have and am using both. I want every and all things that can help me stay alive. I have a special needs son who would become an orphan without me. So,those of you who want to fight and argue, why not start a thread titled 'Let's debate, and disrespect one another" .But those of us who want to explore these alternative issues have brains enough to evaluate them ourselves with out the constant nagging and negativity.

thats-life- · August 2011

merilee: hope im not coming across as argumentative?, i was actually teary after reading jlw's posts and link, im so glad she has raised this topic, and hope it can be explored further in a seperate post. eta: i was actually going to go to ian gawler's retreat, but my x counsellor trashed him so much, i didnt. after reading jlw's post and link, i have a little bit of hope, i think that's what made me teary

luv_gardening · August 2011

I've started a friendship forum on the "Growing our Friendships" forum called "Alternative Health Supporters' Haven" but I daren't start anything serious at the moment as I'll be out visiting my MIL who may not even last the night. We'll have the usual funeral and other arrangements to make when the time comes. I was going to write this on my new thread but didn't want to start it off with sad news.

MIL is 93 and has been poorly for many years so it will be a release of all her pain and health problems. Hubby and his brother are really upset as the last days have snuck up so stealthily and they kept hoping she would rally.

Merilee · August 2011

Joy, Sorry about the sorrow. I can relate. I lost my brother to cancer in May. He only lived 11 months after being diagnosed, so I do understand he stealthy sneak that can be so devastating. Hugs to you and your family.

Anonymous · August 2011

Joy, i wish you strength and courage

luv_gardening · August 2011

Thanks ladies. I'm off to bed.

Anonymous · August 2011

Black cat..

With all due respect and utmost politness I would like to add a few things.

First of all this kind of grandstanding is what we DO NOT need at this time.Putting every person who practices or has benefitted from "alternative"(whatever that means) therapy in one basket and making a gross generalisation doesnt befit someone as educated and well informed as you are.First of all,why is the onus ,always,on the alternative practioners to prove themselves??.The so called "mainstream" system of medication is what is causing all this suffering in the first place,so how can you blame the people when they look for other ways??.Pick up any tv commercial of a "scientificcally proven" medicine and you can see,they spend more time talking about the side effects than the actual benefit of the drug.Please correct me if I am wrong.This whole system of moving away from nature is what has caused us this misery.And this arrogant ,self defeating philophsphy of "Only WE Know" is what keeps pushing us back.Let me give you one example out of hundreds that I have.Ayurveda,the ancient Indian system of medication.There is a potion called "triphala",sanskrit word for 3 fruits.As the name indicates,its a combination of three widely available fruits in India mostly given in powdered form.It has successfully been used by competent doctors to cure wide ranging conditions viz. obesity,chronic constipation,weakness,severe hair loss and a well documented case of severe uranium radiation.My point is why is the onus ALWAYS on the people opting for natural cures?Yes there are quacks and yes there are religious fanatics posing as healers(who knows that better than us asians who are being converted en masse into christianity by these so called healers).But then there are genuine doctors practicing different methods of medicine and who take thier professions very seriously.Are you telling me that when people didnt have the "modern" medicine they didnt live a healthy life?..I have tried my best to present things in a logical and reasonable manner but instead of helpful debates we get abused and ignored but not one,I repeat not ONE person has come forth and engaged us in healthy debate.If using high sounding fancy words to present your case defines your authenticity then I guess we will start doing that too.Am not against anyone but please dont trash us just because we do not happen to agree with whatever you have to say.God bless you all.

Anonymous · August 2011

I had posted about the sucessful treatment of my sister previously.I never claimed that she came back from the dead or she was "healed".Yes she was "cured" of lung cancer but she is still very fragile and recovering.She needs constant care and attention.She lost her voice because of the merciless chemotherapy given to her by the "scientific quacks".And she might never get it back but she is alive and on the way to a bright future and thats all we care about.She is still vulnerable and so cute and hyper that we have to scold her to slow down,she gets tired easily by running around.I hope this clears your idea of being "healed" by a "Alt doc"??.

Thanks

Anonymous · August 2011

Yes the patients look for good referals,the doctors look for a source of income..so??..Are you telling me that the doctors here who spend hundreds of thousand of dollars on their education,open their clincs ,to do social service??.Of course its about money but as long as people dont get ripped off,its all good.

The greater our knowledge increases the more our ignorance unfolds.

John F. Kennedy

Merilee · August 2011

I agree with the more you learn the less you know LOL

Anonymous · August 2011

...

Anonymous · August 2011

Merilee...have you ever tried any alternate medication?..

Merilee · August 2011

Yes I have, as well as conventional, massage therapy, acupressure, and some spiritual healing.

Anonymous · August 2011

Ever heard of Electro homeopathy?.I am so confident that you will be impressed that I will buy you meds for a month?...Natural,safe and no side effects whatsoever.Period.wanna try?

apple · August 2011

r u selling something? wikipedia is not too enthusiastic about it... and your bio.. it is hard to read.

"Electrohomoeopathy is a derivative of homeopathy that had its origins in the 19th century with the claims of Count Cesare Mattei. The name is derived from a combination of electro (referring to an electric bio-energy content supposedly extracted from plants and of therapeutic value, rather than electricity in its conventional sense) and homeopathy (referring to an alternative medicinal philosophy developed by Samuel Hahnemann in the 18th century). Electrohomeopathy has been defined as the combination of electrical devices and homeopathy,^[1] however some contend that it is the therapeutic use of homeopathic preparations of certain "electric bio-energy" herbs that is intended by the term. It is regarded as distinct from traditional homeopathy, which relies on serially diluted remedies of substances that cause similar symptoms to those as it is attempting to cure as its primary form of treatment, electrohomeopathy, however, does not directly follow the "law of similars".^[2] Like traditional homeopathy, modern day applications of electrohomeopathy are generally regarded by the medical and scientific communities as pseudoscience or quackery".

Anonymous · August 2011

Hi Apple

Yes I am.Well Einstein was called a fraud,laughed at and so were other luminaries during thier times.But as they say the truth is self evident.All i ask is one month.I am so sure about the meds that,I will PAY YOU to discontinue it if you dont like it,no strings attached.You have nothing to loose.I WILL deliver what I promise.

Anonymous · August 2011

Well I stay in florida and as a cancer survivor I have a sister .

apple · August 2011

thanks... very reassuring!

Merilee · August 2011

Galaxz- I have reported you and so have others.

Anonymous · August 2011

sigh...

Anonymous · August 2011

Also posted on Natural Girls. Reported that too.

seems the "Kumar" screen namemust have been banned, or deleted. Back now with a new screen name.

luv_gardening · August 2011

Galaxz, you posted on the topic: If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we cure cancer? Page 1 on 26th July with the name Eternity. If you're not Eternity then you're both selling the same product and signing your names Kumar.

"Eternity wrote:
Quack?..Hmmmm...What if I was to tell you I WILL cure cancer right in front of your eyes so you can monitor the progress and I WILL NOT use any of the allopathic medications hence NO side effects whatsoever.Period.Dare to accept the challenge?
Kumar
Ps:Wont take terminally ill.
The patient bears the cost of medication (peanuts compared to the system here) "

Rules of Conduct;
You agree to abide by the following rules, and all administrative and moderator decisions, in your online communications with or through Breastcancer.org, and you acknowledge that we may suspend or terminate your access to online communications in our sole discretion:

1. You represent that you are a breast cancer survivor or support person.

8. You acknowledge that all members are permitted only one verified member identification,

11. You agree not to advertise or promote any goods or services ... without our express written approval.

Merilee · August 2011

People are so low who come on here and try to sell things to us, honestly we are all dealing with some very personal issues here, the last thing we want to do is start sorting through spam, UG!

Understanding alt med "testimonials" for cancer cures

Comments

Categories