Complementary and integrative approaches

Otter, I hope you did copy and paste this info on the other complementary thread at the risk of looking biased. As far as i can see, i,m the only newcomer on this thread and kinda resent being treated like a grade 5 student

Merilee, I am on Femara. I really don't understand the one size fits all either. I think your naturapath is thinking outside the box which I wish more Onc.'s were willing to do.

Merilee, am having severe SEs from Tamox and the onco refuses to give me the lower 10 mg dose (((

My onco is not even doing a hormone panel !!!!!!!

I've always been confused by this. If the goal is to lower estrogen blood levels, why don't all the oncs measure?

Some of the older women are already at 15 blood level of estradiol without intervention of an AI. What would an AI do for them?

Binva, i,ll ask the pharmacist, excellent point ! Will just have to work around that onco of mine ! He has got horrible horrible reviews on the net, just my luck (



Been off Tamox for four weeks.(returning on it after my breasts MRI end July) and i can still feel its effects exactly at the same time i took in the evening, this kinda of allover pain, realllly weird (

Merilee, that is very scary, i,ve noticed i,ve become hard of hearing and that what people say or the TV just does not register, maybe the vertigo is somehow connected to this phenomena. I will be reallyy concerned the day i start seeing through an orange filter (



Do you have to go back on Tamox.? Did u get this wooshing sound in your ears ?

2tzus,

I've heard other women here complain that their cholesterol went up. WebMD had a short article on a study from the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium: 

Newer Breast Cancer Drugs May Carry Higher Risk of Heart Problems Than Tamoxifen: Study

By Charlene Laino
WebMD Health News

Reviewed By Laura J. Martin, MD

Dec. 9, 2010 (San Antonio) -- Postmenopausal women with early breast cancer who take newer hormone drugs known as aromatase inhibitors are 26% more likely to develop heart disease than those who take the old standby tamoxifen, researchers report.

"Treatment with aromatase inhibitors is associated with a significant increase in the risk of cardiovascular events, specifically heart attacks, angina, and heart failure , compared with tamoxifen," says Eitan Amir, MD, a senior fellow in oncology and hematology at the Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto.

However, the actual risk of any individual woman developing heart problems was relatively small -- about 4% -- in women taking either aromatase inhibitors or tamoxifen, he says.

In fact, the analysis showed that 132 patients must be treated with an aromatase inhibitor before one cardiovascular problem occurs. "This number needed to harm is relatively high," Amir says.

But a woman who already has risk factors for heart disease and takes an aromatase inhibitor has a 7% chance of developing heart problems, Amir tells WebMD.

For the study, Amir polled the results of seven trials of tamoxifen and aromatase inhibitors involving nearly 30,000 postmenopausal women with early breast cancer.

The study was presented at the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium.

Aromatase Inhibitors vs. Tamoxifen: How they Work

About two-thirds of breast tumors are fueled by estrogen.

Tamoxifen, which blocks estrogen from getting into cancer cells, slowing tumor growth, has been used for decades to treat breast cancer.

In recent years, its use has been largely supplanted by aromatase inhibitors, which actually shut down the body's ability to make estrogen.

----------------------end excerpt--------------

Luan,

That is a myth that if you have side effects from Tamox or an AI then it is working. A study came out proving that wasn't true.  Somebody posted it on BCO. Yikes, I don't know how I would search for that or in what thread it was in.

It doesn't seem fair that the women with the worst side effects wouldn't at least get some payoff for their suffering.

Unfortunately, those myths about SEs = therapeutic effects abound. I think sometimes docs tell cancer patients that to make them feel better. 

Luan, there is another poster on BCO - Chevyboy, who has reported severe hearing problems as a result of Tamoxifen. It's a pity that your onc is so set on the 20mgs. There really is nothing in the science saying that the effects necessitate 20 mgs for everyone. You might want a second onc. opinion on that in addition to one from a PCP. 

My sense is that the test to measure hormone levels is limited in what it can actually show because it is so dependent on the moment in time.  I've had mine taken and my doctor drew very general conclusions from it, that I wasn't in menopause (which I knew) but he said that the specific number is not very helpful because it fluctuates so much.  So maybe thats why they don't routinely use the test?

Luan some of the side effects from tamoxifen ease after the first few months.  I hope that is the case for me.  When i was on it I had no side effects at all by one year.   

That is what is happening to me, i was relatively doing not so bad, except for the pain, but everything hit me like a timed bomb all at once a few months ago.



We are being told to get some sunny vit D, is anyone minding the photosensitivity associated with all the meds, don,t think the creams work in this case...

Merilee - thanks for starting this thread!  I wanted to add a couple of points -

Many, many people read these threads but don't post so women new to breast cancer learn a LOT from lurking - I know I did, and still do!

I have been on femara for close to 2 years, minimal side effects that I notice.  However, I do have heart disease in my family (father has had 2 bypass surgeries - one a single at age 35 in 1972 and a quadruple at age 65).  My father is doing well, very active etc. but obviously I want to watch out for heart issues!

On femara, my cholesterol went up 40 points.  My HDL ratio was 4 which is just a tad high.  I am in good shape, not really overweight, etc. and had a cholesterol reading done 6 months prior to diagnosis (at age 44) so I am sure femara is the culprit.  My GP has a pharmacist who works with her and recommended a supplement called CholestOff by NatureMade.  It sounded hokey, but I have been taking it for 6 months.  It is plant based sterols.  My oncologist had me do a fasting blood test for cholesterol as part of my quarterly appt.  My Cholesterol went down 30 points.  My HDL which was already good, went up 4 points and my tri went down, so my ratio is now 3.5.  I brought my Cholestoff to appt to show my onc, and wouldn't you know it, she takes it too!  She is pretty up on supplements, tests my hormones every quarter as well as my viatmin D and is a huge proponent of taking Vitamin D, believing it to be a significant factor in BC.

Now, I had a pretty good diet to begin with, and have not changed anything - as a matter of fact, still butter my whole grain (Dave's Killer Bread brand) toast (with organic butter of course).

As this is naturemade brand, you can buy it at rite aid where it is often buy one, get one half off.  My onc. buys it at Amazon.  I have not checked Costco for anything similar.  Neither of my docs talked about putting me on a rx for cholesterol, but I am so thankful that this worked.  

Sorry this is so long, but thought it may be helpful for some of you!

Macygrace, Aprilgirl, thank you so very much for sharing !!! Have heard about plant sterols and wheat germ (looks like anything fermented is a bonus). This is exactly the kind of info we need !! Edited to add, they,re adding plant sterols to everything now, it,s the "new thing"



Macygrace, wow, you had a lot of accidents and must be in awful pain, i,ve had a few myself....:(( I am really really sorry for what you are going through, no one deserves that much bad luck, my prayers are with you, stay strong