Medical Industrial Complex
Because I go against the Breast Cancer Medical Industrial Complex. And espouse other views. In this Alternative forum.
Like Vitamin D and eating greens and vegetables. And NOT Chemo and Radiation and these other treatments. That kill.
So, we can have a discussion. On this Alternative Board. If you are dead set on chemo and radiation, there are plenty of other threads on this board that embrace this view. And encourage you.
But this is the Alternative thread. And on this thread alternative views, like mine, should be encouraged.
Comments
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Oh, well it must have been another Nancy. Because someone deleted my post. And these three current posts will be gone in the next five minutes.
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Leia,
you know all posts are at the top of the board, so if you see a topic that sounds interesting you might
pop in to see what it's about. You can't just think the only people you are trying to get your message to is holistic only! God forbid a young person with a very advanced stage cancer, looks at one of your posts, believes that chemo kills you and choses alternitive medicine. She die's, because she thought
that chemo, rad ect..... that has saved so many lives, will kill her. The real truth is there are young impresionable people, who may not have people in there life to give them the right advice, and could get caught up in alternative ways, thinking it's the better path. You could be responsable for hurting people. Your posts should be deleted, if you are claiming that medicines, that happen to save my life, by the way, that,
and the dear Lord!! ! If you are making these types of claims , you could be effecting peoples lives in a very serious way. Stop and think about what you are doing. Please don't make this an unsafe place for the newly dx. This site is for all sister's to support and be there for one another. Please just think that you might influence young women in a direction that might really harm them!! I believe in everything natural and organic, all the wonderful things we can do to help our bodies, but I would not be here to raise my children if I went alternative. Now I never would because I am 43 and have a dream team of Dr.'s and I want to live. However there are other's who have no one giving them advice, those are the people I worry you might hurt!
I don't know you, I am sure you are a good person, I don't know your dx either. What I do know is that you should not make claims against medicine that saves lives everyday, I wish you well, but nancy is just doing her job!!! I take vt D and eat greens and lots of vegtables. I run, I keep my weight down. These are all great things to do for all people, but you are telling people to replace it with life saving meds. Stop Please!!!
I hope you find the peace you need on your journey, blessings to you, this is not to be narrow minded or cruel. I just felt compelled to say something.
Faithful
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Great, Faithfulheart. I appreciate your comments. And everyone should read them. As everyone should read my comments.
I was once newly diagnosed. In May 2006. My diagnosis was a 2cm IDC, 0/2 nodes, basically a nothing cancer, cut out with huge margins. But my doctors said I should have whole breast radiation for 6 weeks and Tamoxifen for 5 years. And I came to this board and everyone said I should do it. A few people hadn't done it, and it made no sense to me, anyway, so I rejected it all. And five years later, I have both of my breasts and they are cancer free.
Well, I'm here to say to those women like me, don't do it.
I am not affecting anyone's life who doesn't want to be affected. Everyone chooses, for themselves. Just as I chose, back in 2006 when I came to this board. And read everything and chose to NOT choose the Medical Industrial Complex remedies.
And sorry, Faithful, I don't believe this Chemo and Radiation cures anyone. That is my belief. You don't have to believe, you clearly don't. But I do. I do not believe that chemotherapy cures anything. I believe that it kills you.
You disagree. And this is good.
Let's get all of the opinions in the discussion. This is a "discussion board," after all.
Thanks for your input. Let's see what others have to contribute, to our discussion.
Leia
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Well, I don't think that any medical person would claim that chemotherapy "cures" cancer. I think various people have tried to make that point when these discussions occur. There is no cure for cancer that I'm aware of.
I've had 2 1/2 years of chemo non stop. It certainly hasn't killed me - yet. I was on two different chemos at the same time for 2 years. You may wonder why I do it? I was given 3 months - 2 1/2 years ago and here I am.
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Leia,
you have misunderstood my intent. I don't want to discuss, or debate this topic with you, it's a waste of precious time! We need to spend our time incouraging one another, not debating whether or not chemo kills you. Cancer is what kills you, to debate this topic is insane!!!!! I am so happy, and I thank God you are doing well!! I do mean this from my heart. You seem to be an intellingent women,
I hope you understand all cancer's are different and unique, your's responded thank God. That may not be the case for all. Please just live your life happy that you have survived year's, don't tell other's
what to do with there's, don't spend your time debating other's on such a sensitive subject, people will only get hurt. I will not comment again on this subject.
take good care
Faithful
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I think this forum is misnamed - they should take the word 'alternative' out of it. I'm sure the moderators would not want to encourage anyone to seek an unproven treatment or to refuse a proven treatment.
I totally agree with you Britchick!!!
Susan - Yes, I did my homework and that led me to know for sure I would be a total fool to not do chemo/herceptin even with such a small cancer and clear nodes. There was one lady on here who had microinvasive DCIS - no rads as it wasn't recommended - she is now Stage IV. There are no guarantees with conventional treatment, but at least we tried!!
Sue
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Honestly, aren't there already several threads on this topic and theme? I thought a lot of the contentiousness had died down since the start of the new thread on complimentary treatment and I can't help but wonder if this was put out there to start the drama up again.
I would be thrilled if green vegetables were enough. I've been a vegetarian all my adult life and got plenty of those. Also, I had my vitamin D levels tested and those were just fine. Yet I got breast cancer anyway. Its been almost 7 years since my diagnosis and I'm still here. Clearly the chemo and radiation didn't kill me. Most likely saved my life.
But whatever. I suspect Leia's post is speaking to the already converted and won't do any harm.
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Susan - Chillipaddi shared her experience - you should find it and read it
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I was a cyclist, a diver, a runner and took Vitamin D... rarely drank, smoked or did drugs.. VERY rarely. I've always been a natural eater.. tons of veggies, little meats, lots of whole grains. plenty of sleep, good habits.
how did i get cancer at 50? and btw OP, 5 years is not very long. best of luck.
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Leia I read some of your earlier posts and you had an very low grade tumor and chemo was not recommended. Thats great. You did choose to forego radiation and tamoxifen but it sounds like in your case this wasn't such a risky decision. Or at least not as risky as it would have been for those of us with more aggressive and more advanced cancers.
I have no problem with your decision, and it was, of course, yours to make. But I do have a problem with you extrapolating from your own circumstances to make such strong statements about others.
But again, I don't think anyone will be swayed one way or the other.
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Leia:
We should not be giving medical advice without being qualified to do so or going on superficial descriptions of our cancer. We shouldn't advise someone to do chemo or not to do chemo. We are not doctors, do not have the person's medical or social history and do not know their preferences. It's ok to share experiences and opinions, but advice/directives on what to do or not to do is out of bounds in a layperson's support forum, IMO. I have directed this statement at people who support chemo and oppose it equally. As much as you are happy that you did not do chemo and radiation with your tumor characteristics, there are many women who are happy for just the opposite reason and are also here five years later to tell the tale.
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Thanks to all of you, above who shared your opinions. Most appreciated. Just a few comments. Or maybe just one comment.
And that is that I made my post, above on the "Alternative, Complementary, and Holistic Treatment" thread, of this Discussion Board. This thread that we are now on. I thought that meant that the posters, here, were all for alternative, complementary and holistic treatments. Otherwise, if you believe in chemotherapy and radiation and whatever you believe is curable, there are many threads on this board for that. And you can go there and share your stories about how those treatments helped you.
Well, my original message on this thread was deleted by the moderators, but there is my one response that remains that I addressed to Faithfulheart. Who promptly trashed me.
But in that response I said "I am not affecting anyone's life who doesnt want to be affected. Everyone chooses for themselves. Just as I chose, back in 2007 when I came to this board. And read everything and chose to NOT choose the Medical Industrial Complex remedies."
I'm not giving medical advice. I was just saying on this "Alternative, Complementary, and Holistic Treatment" thread of breastcancer.org what happened to me, what I thought of it. Why I chose to never get chemo or radiation.
Isn't that what the "Alternative, Complementary, and Holistic Treatment" thread is for? Why we are against the "Medical Industrial Complex." And why we are for alternative, complementary and holistic treatments.
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They have killed the people I have known of.
But your "medical advice" assertion is absurd. I'm not a doctor, how could I give "medical advice." If someone believes my lay opinion on some discussion board as "medical advice" This is pure opinion. My opinion.
Yet I have my science. I'm on the Budwig Protocol. Dr. Budwig is a Scientist. Omega 3s, cure cancer.
My two cancers are gone. I also had the Leiomyosarcoma cancer. A really nasty cancer. In addition to the breast cancer.
Today,following Budwig I have no cancers at all.
What is Cancer? It is a failure of our immune systems to eliminate the cancer cells. So, the answer is, build up our immune systems. So that our bodies can kill the cancer cells. And that is what I am doing. With the Budwig Protocol.
The Medical Industrial Complex answer is to create drugs and chemo and whatever to "treat" cancer. But chemotherapy kills the bodies immune system.
And if cancer was cured, the treatment revenues would all go away.
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Leia - Alternative and complementary are 2 different things - look them up in the dictionary. I won't post the definitions as I got attacked last time I did. So, you may come to this thread because you are an alternative person, we, however, come here because we are interested in complementary treatments ie acupuncture, supplements. So, you have no right to tell us to go away ok?
Sue
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Susan - she was saying anyone who is interested in complementary medicine should not be on this forum not this particular thread.
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i guess I am one of those people who must embrace all disciplines to stay alive.
I would enjoy more comments on the Budwig diet.. it seems so strict. Perhaps one of the reasons I have done so well, in spite of being stage 4 from the get go, is my ingestion of flaxseedoil and the cottage cheese.
I cherish my remaining years, particularly for my kids' sake.
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apple I thought flaxseed was bad for us ER+ people.
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Oh please, SusanK8, where do you get off chastising Apple for a perfectly reasonable (and respectful) question? And who made you the police for what is appropriate or not on this topic?Flax seed, flax seed, flax seed, flax seed. There, i said it.
There are now several threads going for women who have chosen no conventional treatments. I guess if you want this one to add to the pile, thats fine. Seems to me it was designed to stir up controversy, but OK, have fun with that. But do remember that complimentary medicine involves integrating traditional and alternative, so there is a place in this section for women who are choosing both. I'm not sure why you wouldn't encourage that -- if you believe so strongly in your alternative choices, i would think you would want everyone, even women who are also using mainstream treatments, to know about them and take advantage of them as well. But I get it, you are more interested in challenging mainstream treatments than promoting an alternative. Honestly, I don't think these threads will change any minds, especially if you are so hostile to others and don't want them even participating. But okey, dokey, go at it.
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I'll run by my posts to you SusanK8 before I post them.. I didn't know you were in charge.
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Susan, I knew of the petition and signed it last week. I will fight to the death for the right to take my choice of supplements.
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Wait a minute: Are they planning to *outlaw* supplements? (I would doubt that seriously, considering that it is BIG business, and I don't see what that would do for the economy).
....Or are they planning, instead, to better *regulate* all those supplements (and in my opinion, tthat would be GREAT).
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Kira
you will finid valuable information about diet & nutrition on both the Dana Farber Cancer Institute website, and Sloan Kettering. John's Hopkins also has a good website addressing your important question.
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Be careful with reading the Natural News comment as fact.
It is an opinion piece on what could technically happen. I think the panic is premature. There are lots of things government could do which it never does (thank God, and Oh God!). I wouldn't bother with this unless there is a move by or towards the FDA.
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OK, I just read the proposed regulations and they in no way are trying to take away supplements. Lets try to dial down the hysteria. The proposal (which, by the way, was mandated by Congress, this is just a proposal to enact what is already law) requires manufacturers to submit new ingredients (new meaning post-1994, so that limits the ingredients) to the FDA for approval of safety. This is not the same kind of oversight pharmaceutical drugs get where they have to show both safety and efficacy. And, hey, don't you want to ensure that what you put in your body is safe? There have been actual deaths from supplements that were unsafe in the past.
I suspect that the opposition to this is being orchestrated by the supplement industry -- a very large, profitable industry -- because they don't want to submit their products for safety approval.
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MOTC - I wish I could put a "like" next to both of your posts on this thread.
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Me too!
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ANH-USA Legal Projects
As part of ANH-USA's mission to protect access and choice, we not only work on Capitol Hill supporting and opposing legislation, but also file strategic lawsuits against government agencies like the FDA and the FTC who are overstepping their authority or violating your Constitutional rights.
Hmmmm - sounds a lot like those conservative astroturf groups that have grass roots-y sounding names but are really backed by big business to oppose any government oversight and continue with corporate welfare. I say "sounds like" - I don't know for sure. Will double-check.
Whe someone says "protecting access and choice" it often means opposing reform.
Again, critical reading is needed. And the point is not where you stand but what the FDA will actually do or not.
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Yazmin, you and I often disagree, but this time I absolutely agree, and think your post bears repeating:
"Wait a minute: Are they planning to *outlaw* supplements? (I would doubt that seriously, considering that it is BIG business, and I don't see what that would do for the economy).
....Or are they planning, instead, to better *regulate* all those supplements (and in my opinion, tthat would be GREAT). "
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If the Americans want to preserve their rights to supplementation they will have to mobilize in huge campaigns like the Canadians had to do. In 2008, Canada was poised to begin to ban health supplements by introducing Bill C51 which would have criminalized vitamins, minerals & herbs making them illegal in Canada.
and the population has now achieved this good outcome:
Through the Natural Health Products Directorate, Health Canada assures that all Canadians have ready access to a wide range of natural health products that are safe, effective and of high quality.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodnatur/applications/licen-prod/lnhpd-bdpsnh-eng.php
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SusanK8,
Did you mean "pharmacies" ("The pharmacies aren't making as much money as they would like") -- or pharmaceutical companies?
Here is a list from Fortune 500 of the revenues and profits of the top 12 pharmaceutical companies in 2010, with a % comparison of 2010 profits to 2008:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2010/industries/21/index.html
Only one company, Johnson & Johnson, had decreased profits in 2010 compared to 2008 (5.3% decrease). Merck had a 65% increase in 2010 over 2008, and Bristol-Myers Squibb more than doubled their profits (102.2% increase)!
As for pharmacies ("drugstores") -- from what I see, they do a huge business in selling supplements, so I doubt they're trying to "take down" supplements! However, they might have an incentive to protest regulation of the quality of supplements, to make sure they really contain everything they're supposed to!
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