Anyone fasting to boost chemo effectiveness & to reduce SE?
Comments
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Hello all, I climbed out of the chair just over 28 hours ago after FEC #3 which was the worst yet. I had more nausea which by evening had me retching falling asleep and heading to bed early, but I slept well and woke feeling a lot perkier! My blood counts before tx had bounced up to normal thank goodness!
Today I made a chicken and corn chowder and had that for lunch so the taste buds are feeling fine! I find that I crave healthy homemade food- some fruit scones for afternoon tea are on my mind now! Had 2 hour outing to the shops for necessaries and just to get some fresh winter sunshine- feel alive!
I hope that everyone is feeling bright and recovering from TX! {{{take care}}} Robyn -
I think the linger period of fasting helped my appetite and above all my food taste better.
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I've started my first fast tonight. I'm wondering if anyone took their suppliments while fasting, or just have water? I'm wondering because I'm really really low on iron, and I'm hoping my body can handle the fasting, the treatment, and then the fasting.
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I'm suppose to take my dexamethasone steroids with food. Did you girls have to do that? I've been fasting for about 36 hours now and I'm not sure what I should do about the steroids.
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Nicolgirl- check with your doctor! This past time I took my steroids with a metamucil tablet as suggested by someone on the board. Also, I let my doc know that I was fasting and asked his permission .
I am fasting for long term effects as the short term effects do not seem mitigated by the fasting. -
I was undergoing chemo three years ago at this time. The study you referenced was not yet in human trials, but I had read about the theory in the news. I tried it myself for my first two chemos. I had very few side effects during chemo; constipation was the worst side effect, other than losing my hair. Throughout chemo, my energy level remained good, I walked more than a mile daily and took hikes on the weekends, my appetite was good, and I had no nausea. My blood work remained good, and I missed no infusions due to low blood counts. I bounced back from nine months of hellish treatments like nothing had happened. In all honesty, I don't know if this was due to the fasting or the fact that my health (other than having cancer!) and my pre-treatment fitness level were excellent. Maybe a bit of both.
BTW, my chemo regimen was TAC every three weeks for 4.5 months.
I, too, took dexamethasone, and I didn't have any problems taking it without food. I did not take supplements (other than vitamin D and a multivitamin) at all during chemo, but did not take anything other than water during fasting.
There was some concern that fasting may alter the effects of chemo. I'm more than three years out, and so far everything looks good. Apparently, the chemo did it's thing, and the fasting didn't decrease its effectiveness, at least for me.
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Thank you Cyborg and Celtic Spirit! You're advice is really appreciated. Congrats Celtic on being such a great warrior!
I too am in great shape, and have serious concerns about how this will affect my health later. Thank you for jumping back into this discussion to give advice and "cheer-power" to those of us that are just beginning.Cyborg, my onc was supportive of me fasting, but doesn't have any advice concerning it. I will try taking the dexa methasone without food on this round. I'm super scared to sit in that chair tomorrow.
Celtic Spirit, thanks again for offering advice. You're success is a HUGE help in my courage. Since you didn't know about this study, how long were you fasting?
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Nicolgirl - The early studies suggested that fasting 48 hours prior to chemo, and several hours following the infusion, was sufficient to shut down the good cells and protect them from damage. So that's what I did. That recommendation may have changed during the last three years.
I've always had a low iron count, and I can't say that chemo made it any worse.
For those of you experiencing nausea, ask your onc for a prescription for Zofran. It's a miracle drug.
My advice for recovering from cancer and cancer treatment? Stay as physically and psychologically active as you can, and get your head in a good place. Set a goal for yourself...something you want to do following treatment. Mine was hiking at Chimney Rock. I dangled that carrot in front of my face before each infusion. Start thinking about your future and making plans as soon as treatment ends. Get busy living!
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Celtic Girl- you're a rock! My goal is to go run the Ragnar Relay series in the Florida Keys. I love the Ragnar series, super fun. I was training for a marathon when I was diagnosed, and had to drop out of that, the century bike race in Idaho, and the Wasatch Back (Ragnar Relay) here in SLC. Thanks for reaching out. You made me smile today (even though I'm freakin' hungry!) I have a few friends in my area that are BC survivors, and they talk of huge weight gain, and horrible side effects, thus my finding a diferent route to try to curb the short term effects, and also the long term effects.
Cyborg- are you ok? It sounded like you are having some SE that aren't so great?
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Great advice Celtic spirit - it is heartening to hear that you have come out of treatment so well! Good luck with your tx nicolgirl! It sounds as tho you have a tough mental attitude to run marathons! That will certainly help with the race you are running now!
I am a week after my last FEC and starting to feel more human And normal now. The SEs were worse this time which I am sure is due to a cumulative effectof tx. The nausea hangs around till day 7-8 but still managed without laxatives. I was yellowish for 3 days due to maybe not drinking as much as possible due to the nausea bloat feeling. Still retained my sense of smell and taste this time and blood counts still bouncing up well by tx day . Starting 3 x taxotere from 5/7 so will fast and hopefully mitigate some of the neuropathy and nail damage associated with that tx. Take care cyborg- I hope you are bouncing back soon! -
I emailed Dr. Longo to ask him about taking the dex without food, and he said "water only". So, with what he and Celtic Spirit said, I took it this morning and will take it again tonight. I have not experienced any nausea yet.
Robyn, I am sad to hear that you are having nausea for that long. My onc said that if I was experiencing nausea or vomiting, I should call right away. How much are you drinking a day when you fast? I'm trying to gage, how much I should be drinking. Good luck with the tax tx's, let me know how the icing goes!
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Hello to all.
My 2nd FEC was last Tuesday and, unfortunately, I did not bounce back to normal as quickly as I did with the first treatment. With the inital FEC, I woke up on the Thursday feeling great. This time around, I suffered quite a bit more from nausea. I actually got sick the first night which actually provided me some relief. After that the nausea want constant but gradually abated. Even today, I am probably only 90% back to my pre-nausea normal. I have always been prone to yeast infections and have been experiencing one these past few days. It seems worse than normal but that could be just my imagination - while going through chemo everything seems amplified. I just bought OTC meds (Canesten) and hope that will do the trick. I guess I should mention this to the nurse since I think we're suppose to let them know about all infections.
Other than the nausea, which was more annoying than debilitating and which I hope will be completely resolved in the next day or two, I found that I did not experience other side effects apart from dry mouth lasting about 4-5 days and fatigue . The fuzzy mouth sensation and taste which I experienced the last time did not reoccur with treatment #2.
I don't think I drank as much water post-treatment this time as I should have. I have been craving water mixed with gatorade but small sips only.
Robyn, congratulations on finishing with the FEC. You are half done the chemo. I hope the taxotere is doable. I will be waiting to hear about your experiences with the next treatments as I will start Taxotere on July 26 (last FEC July 5).
Cyborg, I hope you have recovered from the SEs of your last treatment. I am sorry to hear that the fasting is not helping you with the short term side effects.
Nicolgirl, I hope are doing well if you have had your chemo by now. Yesterday was my city's marathon. I have run the half marathon in each of the last few years after a 13 year running break (marriage and kids). My husband, my two kids and I, and 6 other friends, ran the 2.6 mile fun run. I had to walk it because I have been told no running while I have the PICC in my arm. I have not run since the end of March, just before my BMX and reconstruction. I really miss it.
Celtic Spirit, thanks for your encouragement!!
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SE #1: Sleeplessness....due to the dexamethasone (steriod). I haven't slept at all tonight, decided to just get up. I layed in bed for the past hour talking myself out of getting up and going for a run! That's crazy right? This steriod is making me feel very energetic, but I keep reminding myself that running is not what my body needs while on this long fast! Maybe Yoga?
Winterpeg, thanks for pointing out the yeast infections, I too am prone to that, and will have to pay attention to that. Have you tried acidolpholus capsules?
Good luck Robyn! I was surprised to hear that you are curbing nausea with laxitives, is that right? My port is near my shoulder, just under the clavical. I want to scratch it out. I bet the one in your arm is pretty crappy too. They told me I can run with mine. Last months Running Magazine featured runners who were beating cancer.....it's very inspiring, so if you can get your hands on one, I'd suggest it! I was so inspired by each story. It's so great that you got out for the 2.6 miler. I LOVE that you are a half marathoner! I've never raced a half....I plan to, how about you? Our bodies are amazing and we can beat this!
I have always found it funny that people think excercise is a habit that you get "into". It's never been that way for me. Every day it's a choice, I have to make myself do it. Once I get started, I'm always, always, glad I did it. But every minute up to it, my brain is listing every thing else I should be doing instead!
My goal is to exercise (to some degree) every day. What have you all found is possible for you? In the book "Anti-Cancer, A New Way of Life", He suggests walking or running 2 miles every day. It's been so great to read back on when you ladies all started....you make it all seem so doable, and I'm looking forward, now, to just getting started on be on the road to being DONE! Winning my body, life, and time back!!
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Welcome back winterpeg! I am sorry to hear you're suffering SEs - I am sure tx SEs are cumulative with each chemo tx. I have been at work this week but get quite fatigued just traveling. Luckily I can work from home mostly during tx and avoid infections when blood counts are low.
Nicolgirl- lol I dont take laxatives for nausea just the usual reason! my main SEs from the FEC are nausea which is controlled mostly using emend ondsetron & dexamethosone but they can cause constipation and headaches which if bad I take Tylenol plus which causes constipation...while the other main SE I whine about is the gastro shock where everything just stops for at least 2 days after TX and exacerbates the nausea. So not taking laxatives is a small victory!! I get very gastro- focussed for a week or two after tx! Taxotere apparently has the opposite effect!
The first 2-3 days post tx I aim to drink at least 3 litres a day to flush out system but with nausea it can be tricky to sip that much! While fasting it is important to to keep up fluids I had green or black tea coffee, diet sodas, water and more water - it did keep mind off food!
Healthy thoughts to everyone! Robyn -
Nicole girl , that is awesome about you e mailing dr longo. Took metamucil for this round with the steroids--- next time and fir last treatment will only pound the water with it. Love the mineral water. The first day out or so from TC this time felt Ok to eat- food tasted good. But then that horrible taste in my mouth again. I have vomited twice this round and felt nausea for about a week, but like I said--- mostly fasting for long term SEs and damage prevention. Thank you Celtic_Spirit for the boost. I need goals or something positive. Been feeling depressed. Love to all!
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Nicolgirl, I experienced the sleeplessness right after my surgery in April except that no one told me that would be a side effect of the steroids I was given. By the end of the 4th or 5th night without any real sleep, I thought I was losing my mind. Thankfully I have not had this side effect with the steroids I have been given with the chemo. I have also been unable to do yoga since my surgery. The PICC line actually does not hurt or cause any irritation but does severely limit my activities. Not only have I not been able to run or do yoga, I am also unable to work on my flower beds and maintain my yard. I can't wait until this PICC line is out for that reason. I am walking about an hour at least a couple of days per week but we have had a lot of rain and I have been unmotivated to go to an indoor track on those days. My running partner and I had been planning to train for our first marathon this year - we had decided on Hawaii in December. BC has delayed those plans until next year. I just met with the radiation oncologist today and will have 5 weeks of radiation starting a month after the chemo ends. I will try running through radiation even if only short slow runs. I will look for the Running magazine for some inspiration. BTW, I have purchased acidophilus in the past on the recommendation of my doctor but was very lax in taking them regularly. Maybe I will talk to the onc or nurse about starting again.
Robyn, it's great that you are able to work while going through chemo. I know that it must be really difficult some days. Will you be doing radiation after chemo?
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Winterpeg - work is not too bad as I am studying full time and my group is most supportive being health professionals. Being half way through chemo now I can see the end in sight! I am going to do 25 rads - i work in the CBD so planning to have treatment in the morning before work at the major cancer centre close by. I take public transport so if I get fatigued it will be easy enough to turn around and go home or go straight to work - hate parking/driving in the city centre! I really look forward to the end of treatment - the TEs I have feel like plastic bricks on my chest and wont be expanded until rads are over - very uncomfortable to sleep on! all I want for Xmas is small soft foobies!
Acidophilus is good for the tummy - I eat a probiotic yogurt each day and find it really helps the gastro tract get back to normal after Tx.
Cyborg - I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling depressed! I was taking antidepressants for anxiety /depression (2 sides same coin) when diagnosed and feel that I would not cope without that help now. Having goals is important even if it is as simple as planning a nice dinner and achieving it. I really dont look further ahead than what I know I can achieve and doggedly working on it bit by bit even if I dont really want to. I am doing a Phd at the moment and apply that - each cycle of 3 weeks I do one week lab work (week before chemo), chemo week I try to do some rote brainless writing or organising, week 2 I will try to organise and write creatively. I am not as productive as I would be healthy, but my snail pace is in the direction of completing the project as planned (eventually). It helps so much to have something non-cancer in my life to focus upon.
On my 'feel sorry for myself Im a chemo cancer patient poor me cant be bothered im sick' days I cook! Usually a recipe that is completely new and different - the family is getting fat!
Nicolgirl - Hoping that you are feeling okay after your Tx! Drink lots!
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Robyn, you are so good for us! You brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your love and support. My good friend who is a 7 year survivor, suggested that I get on an antidepressant right away when all this started. I haven't felt the need yet, but that is just good solid, wise advice.
My expanders, are expanded, as "large" as I would ever like. I'm not a big chested girl, and want to feel like myself as much as possible after this. My sweet husband has nicknamed the newbies as "YEAHbies!!" because the BOObies tried to kill me!
My first treatment was very boring! I fasted the 62 hours before and the 24 hours after. I too am now counting down the days till done! Only one more handful, 5! I drank, and drank, and drank, a ton of water. To be exact: 2 days before tx=160 oz, 1 day before=224oz, day of=320oz, day after=192oz. I took all the advice to heart, and tried to hydrate! So, no really horrible SE's yet, two days after tx, I noticed that I slowed down, and mouth became sore, but mostly I noticed that my joints were aching. They are still aching, and my gut is not normal, but no nausea or vomiting. I feel lucky.
Winterpeg, running in Hawaii sounds just about perfect right now. I love the thought!
Cyborg, which antinausea meds do they have you taking?
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Hey Nicolgirl -so glad to hear that you are doing so well! The first tx is always the hardest mentally! It certainly looks as if you have the hydration part down pat!! I love the 'yeahbies' Lol
This is my Good week - lotsa work to do! and onto taxotere next week and another set of SEs! I really don't know how others cope with close spaced or weekly tx- it is nice to feel a bit recovered between Txs.
Take care Nicolgirl! -
Hi Robyn, just wondering if you lost all of your hair with FEC? If so, when. I am concerned that I still have quite a bit of hair left and am not sure what that means about the effectiveness of the chemo I'm getting. I'm guessing I still have about 10-20% of my hair with even coverage.
Nicolgirl, it must be a relief having the first chemo tx behind and hopefully you have continued to experience few side effects. I am having my third and final FEC on July 5 and will be starting the fast again on Sunday. The time in between chemo txs seems to go so fast.
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Hi winterpeg-after tx #3 I have lost 95% now. I kept a comb over on top for a poky out fringe -until this last week but my scalp has been tender and even that has thinned out till it is just pathetic now! I have my first taxotere this coming Tuesday so I hope that I can keep my eyelashes and eyebrows which while a little thinner are still there.
We will be in the chair same time - and fasting from Sunday- my appetite has been good so haven't lost any weight making up for fasting! The side effects are tougher each tx so hoping that the taxotere will be a bit easier this time round.
((take care everyone)) Robyn -
Started fasting last night for FEC #3 on Tuesday morning. Am feeling more anxiety than the last time and hope things go smoothly. Good luck Cyborg and Robyn who I believe will also be in the chair on Monday and Tuesday, respectively. -
Fasting for tomorrow's chemo and will fast for twenty four hours after chemo.
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Hello fellow fasters, yesterday I completed FEC #3 and am now half way done chemo - yeah! however it was the roughest day of nausea and anxiety I have experienced. I got sick twice only three hours after the chemo ended. I decided to eat a slice of dry toast about 8 hours after chemo with gravol. It seemed to help somewhat. I also got my period the night before the chemo (2/2 since staring tx) which may have contributed to the lousy feeling. I was told that I would have one period at most on chemo but I was also told I would lose all my hair. So far neither has happened.
Today has been a much better day and I hope that tomorrow will be even better. I hope the rest of you are doing well.
Robyn, how has your first taxotere been? -
Hi winterpeg & cyborg! I hope you are doing better now. I found the last FEC was the roughest and was sick after tx within hours too winterpeg. The good news is that the taxotere has been a breeze so far! I fasted 62/24 hours post tx and have had no nausea so far with the zofran and dexamethasone. The fatigue has been the biggest SE but after feeling wired with the steroids it is ok to slow down. I had some irritation down in the nether regions but use a warm water rinse after toileting to stop that problem before it starts. The taxotere is irritating!
I have also started to take L-acetyl carnitine to prevent neuropathy. I will do anything sensible to come out of these tx without any long term SEs!
But so far so good!! I am thrilled to be over the FEC - no more of that dreaded red stuff! Only 2 more chemo and onto rads and planning the new foobies!
Cyborg- how are you doing???
Good luck and wishing you a speedy recovery- it does get easier!! (((take care))) Robyn -
Had my last tx on ties. 62 fast before tx and 24 after. Tired as he'll. Food tastes Terri ke. Nobreal nausea except for this morning. Sone Garrick upset. Bored now.
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Cyborg, congratulations on having completed chemo! How are you feeling these days? What is your next phase of tx?
I can't believe how quickly the past 3 weeks has gone. I have my first Taxotere tx on Tuesday and I'm quite scared. After a wonderful holiday lakeside during which I felt great, I started to feel sick as we approached home this past Friday. Ever since, I have felt terrible and can swear the post chemo tx taste has returned. My DH thinks I am psyching myself out and maybe I am but the sick feeling is real.
Robyn, how have you been doing now that you are three wks post Taxotere no. one? How are you taking the acytel carnitine and how does it work with fasting? Are you given steroids and if so do you take metamucil and when/how much?
My eyebrows and eyelashes have thinned so I have used my newly acquired eyebrow pencil (thanks LGFB program) to help fill in the gaps. I am still very itchy and sore down below which is quite annoying. I can't wait to have chemo behind me. I can't help but wonder about my decision to undergo this poisoning - I only hope it does more good than bad. -
Hi winterpeg! It is good to hear from you! I am fasting for tuesday and so far it had been fine. Taxotere is easier than FEC as there is little nausea . Fatigue has been the most worrisome SE as I am used to being energetic. I am taking the acetyl carnitine 1000 mg 3xdaily- steroids tomorrow. I don't take metamucil as don't want to induce diahhrea. So far have not had that at all, or any neuropathy and feeling well and healthy. I know day 3-5 I will have some flu like muscle and bone aches and deep fatigue but can handle that with Tylenol and rest. I think that the fasting does help a lot with the intestinal SEs. I have not had any mouth ulcers but took a lot of care to rinse often post tx esp in the 36 hours post tx. I use warm water to rinse after toileting to to prevent irritation post too and nappy rash powder to dry the area when I did get itchy sore for a day. Dry eye was my week 2 problem but it went away when using lubricating eye drops regularly not just when itchy.
All in all taxotere is not too bad! And fatigue for me is easier to deal with nausea. FEC and AC make you feel poisoned -so glad that is behind! I spent so much time worrying and expecting more of the same so it was such a relief when there was nothing like the FEC effects.
Three weeks later My hair us growing back and I have a healthy crop of peach fuzz! So I can see some light at the end if the tunnel!! Good luck for your first treatment!! Robyn -
I instinctively ate VERY lightly before chemos, and very lightly afterwards.. I am not one to voluntarily throw up and avoid it at all costs.... practically fasting.. just an apple and maybe a few nuts. I felt pretty good all the way through.
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Thanks for the tips, Robyn. I sure hope I also find taxotere better than FEC. I've been having some chest pain - right/Picc line side - past couple of days. MO just called me back and thinks like maybe picc position issue so I will likely have X-ray when attend for picc care and blood work tomorrow morning. Hope its not serious. Good luck to you on Tuesday. I can't wait to be all done!
Apple, I'm glad you felt good through chemo and hope you are continuing to do well.
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