Guinea pigs, are we ?

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    My final path report after BMX showed multiple areas of DCIS that had never been detected by the 3 mammograms, 2 US and 2 MRI's I had.  I didn't even know that was possible!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Kate, will DCIS always develop into invasive ? Do they know it as an absolute fact ? My tumours had in situ "aspect", did something happen at one point, maybe mammo, that turned the in situ status into invasive status. Don,t know....

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited June 2011

    At my last mammogram I was asked to participate in a study of new technology, 3D ultrasound, because I have dense breasts.  It produces highly detailed, sliced images of the breast.  Maybe one day this will be the standard of care.

  • suemed8749
    suemed8749 Member Posts: 1,151
    edited June 2011

    After a routine mammogram detected my 2.2 cm IDC, I had an MRI before a lumpectomy. My surgeon called with odd results - she said that if she didn't know better, the MRI showed that there was no cancer in the breast. I thought that was good - she wasn't so sure. I had a lumpectomy with dirty margins (DCIS in 2 ducts), another lumpectomy (which turned up another .7 cm IDC and more DCIS), then a mastectomy (only a few residual cancerous cells left in the cavity.) My onc said that about 2% of tumors don't show up on MRI.

    The 3D ultrasound sounds promising ( and much less painful and nerve-wracking than a mammo or MRI.)

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Luan- DCIS will not always become invasive.  Unfortunately, they can't research to find out why some do and some don't because anyone DX with DCIS isn't willing to let it sit in there long enough to find out.  I did read that a woman can have DCIS her whole life and it never grows at all.  They only discovered this in autopsies.  

    3D US sounds wonderful!  I always found mammograms to be extremely painful.  It's about time they came up with a better solution that squishing our boobs into a trash compactor! 

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Joy, you asked what determined my stage III status.  I am trying hard to determine what testing positive for E-cadherin means, as well as others on the E-Cadherin thread.  Maybe you could join us there, as I think I might have read somewhere that you referred to it and sounded familiar with it ?  The way I interpret this issue is that one would test positive for loss of E-cadherin, am I wrong?

    "Decreased expression of E-cadherin in tumor cells has been shown to correlate with increased invasiveness in vitro, increased metastasis in murine models, and adverse clinicopathological characteristics in numerous human cancers"

    Do I really want to know ?

  • MarieKelly
    MarieKelly Member Posts: 591
    edited June 2011

    LUAN, 

    You're obviously having a very difficult time understanding what positive and negative means in regards to E-cadherin testing.  Let's try this again -

    E-cadherin is a cell surface protein and is present on normal breast tissue.  The test for E-cadherin is done using a stain to highlight the presence of those E-cadherin proteins.  When the pathologist drops the stain onto the slide containing the cancer cells and those cells then change color, that color change means that the test is POSITIVE. A positive test result means that E-cadherin is present. The test is positive for E-cadherin.

    The term "loss of E-cadherin" means that the tumor cells have none or very little E-cadherin protein present.  If the slide does not change color when the stain is applied to it, then the test result is NEGATIVE for E-cadherin and there is "loss of E-cadherin".

    ILC tumors generally tests negative because they have lost their E-cadherin proteins.  IDC cells almost always retain their E-cadherin proteins, so they test positive.

    Does it make more sense to you now?

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited June 2011

     Yes, not all dcis will become invasive because not all dcis are alike. Lower grade cancer cells take longer (even a life time) to become troublesome, or invasive. From what I learned about dcis is that the grade 3, high grade cells are more likely to become invasive. The high grade cancer cells do not look like normal cells. The high grade cells that becomes solid must either burst from the ducts or travel up or down the ducts. The person dx with high grade dcis is at high risk for invasive cancer. It is a matter of time no matter what age they are.  

    Basically, those who have lower grade dcis are the ones in question to whom will or will not be dx with invasive cancer. High grade dcis is a sure thing that is if it is left alone.

      


    From BCO

    Grade I (low grade) or Grade II (moderate grade)

    Grade I or low-grade DCIS cells look very similar to normal cells or atypical ductal hyperplasia cells. Grade II or moderate-grade DCIS cells grow faster than normal cells and look less like them. Grade I and Grade II DCIS tend to grow slowly and are sometimes described as "non-comedo" DCIS. The term non-comedo means that there are not many dead cancer cells in the tumor. This shows that the cancer is growing slowly, because there is enough nourishment to feed all of the cells. When a tumor grows quickly, some of its cells begin to die off.

    People with low-grade DCIS are at increased risk of developing invasive breast cancer in the future (after 5 years), compared to people without DCIS. Compared to people with high-grade DCIS, however, people with low-grade DCIS are less likely to have the cancer return or have a new cancer develop. If more cancer does develop, it typically takes longer for this to happen in cases of low-grade DCIS versus high-grade.

    Grade III (high-grade) DCIS

    In the high-grade pattern, DCIS cells tend to grow more quickly and look much different from normal, healthy breast cells. People with high-grade DCIS have a higher risk of invasive cancer, either when the DCIS is diagnosed or at some point in the future. They also have an increased risk of the cancer coming back earlier - within the first 5 years rather than after 5 years.

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited June 2011

    I am really interested in the 3 D ultrasound. I'm a good size B right now, except for on and off swelling in the left breast (I think I have slight left breast lymphdema), which is another reason to be concerned about a mammogram.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    MarieKelly, thanks, but i am no chemist....and that girl on that thread said that her onco told her that being negative was a good thing. So yes i,m having a hard time understanding this in my second language. I could very well test pos for loss of e cadherin, if u follow my deduction. I did find today something that backs up what u say, so again thank you :)

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Evebarry, thank u so much for your trouble. Could i transpose your explanation on the grades to my IDC and conclude that because it was grade 1 that it,s been hanging around a looong time. I was scared that because of its relatively small size that it had done quite a bit of damage : had a smaller sister close by, had invaded 2 nodes, one of which had extra capsular extensions. Maybe i was wrong in thinking that it was "agressive". My onco refuses to qualify it for me.



    I,m with you on the mammo and lymphedema in left breast also :(((

  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited June 2011
    Yes we are guinea Pigs.Period!!!!!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Grannydukes, well said LoL !!

  • FireKracker
    FireKracker Member Posts: 8,046
    edited June 2011
    And im not happy about it either!!!!!!!!
  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited June 2011

    Luan, feel free to transpose anything I've posted on bco. Whatever is here is public info :) Plus the information about grades is here on bco and other well known cancer sites.

    Your cancer, grade 1 has been around for a loooong time :( I read one place that an invasive grade 1 trumps the dcis grade 3. Once it's moved outside the ducts it's dangerous. 

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