Anyone fasting to boost chemo effectiveness & to reduce SE?

Anonymous · May 2011

I will be starting chemo soon following my Apr 5/11 BMX with immediate SIEA reconstruction as treatment for my sychronous bi-lateral breast cancer (DCIS & IDC).

From my reading about chemo medications and side effects, I understand that there are currently two human studies in California and the Netherlands, which will both be completed in 2012, testing the theory that short term fasting prior to (and perhaps following) chemotherapy will:

1. boost the effectiveness of the chemotherapy on killing the cancer cells (as I understand it the healthy cells react to the fasting by going into some sort of protective mode which helps shield them from the effects of the chemo drugs as opposed to the cancer cells which do not go into protective mode); and

2. reduce the side effects of the chemotherapy medications.

I also understand that not all people's health will permit them to do the fasting and that you need to discuss this with and get your doctor's approval.

I am aware of at least one article reviewing the experience of 10 people who did the fasting on their own and not as part of a study: http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v1/n12/full/100114.html

Please share your experience, the good and the bad, if you have included fasting as part of your chemotherapy treatment.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Thanks winterpeg for bringing this study up. It makes for interesting reading and I would be thrilled if a short term fast before chemo could alleviate the nausea and gastro problems that I experienced after chemo #1 two weeks ago. I hated the need for laxatives as the gastro tract went into chemo shock and the nausea took 10 days to pass. The theory behind pre chemo fasting makes sense and I will look forward trying this to see if it eases the SEs.

Cheers. Robyn

Anonymous · May 2011

Hi Robyn,

Since my post I have had my first meeting with my medical oncologist, have an appointment for my PICC line at the end of this week, and start my first chemo (FEC x3 then Taxotere x3) on May 24.

The MO did not seem to be familiar with the ongoing clinic trials regarding short terms fasting and chemotherapy nor did he seem interested in hearing anything about it. He said he would not recommend short term fasting without seeing any conclusive study results which would support the theory behind the current studies but he provided no medical reasons for why I should not try the fasting. Since the clinic trials will not be completed until 2012, waiting will not help me. I think the MO could see in my face that I was not persuaded by his recommendation (without any valid reasons) against the fasting as he told me I was certainly free to do what I wanted to do. So I will. I have decided to fast 24 hours before and perhaps 5 or 6 hours afterwards. I have never gone (that I recall) more than 15 hours or so without food (except for maybe my BMX & reconstruction on April 5 when I didn't eat food for about 36 hours although I may have had something through IV - can't remember) so I hope that I will be able to do so. I will let you know how it goes.

I was hoping that others may have already tried some sort of fasting and I could learn from their experiences and I would also be interested if anyone else has been considering this option and what their MOs have to say on the topic.

Leah_S · May 2011

Winterpeg, I have to say I don't know anything about fasting and chemo. However, even if you don't eat make sure you drink. Dehydration can be a serious problem when you're on chemo. Drink more than you think you need since if you're not eating the water can go through you and not be absorbed.

Best of luck.

Anonymous · May 2011

Thanks Leah, I definitely will be drinking lots of water.

pejkug3 · May 2011

I believe that WINDLASS did some fasting before her chemo. You may want to send her a PM.

Kathy044 · May 2011

Winterpeg, I'm not certain about the anti nausea drugs, but the steroids started the day before Taxotere must be taken with food or a snack.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Hello all- I did PM windlass about her experience

Her reply to me about her experience with fasting is below;

Hi, Robyn:

I've now done three cycles of Adriamycin/Cytoxan, the first two with the fasting regimen and the last one without. Man, what a difference! The first two cycles seemed to go pretty well, but since I had no basis for comparison, I skipped the fasting for this most recent cycle.

What a mistake. I have been wracked with nausea, headaches, painful tongue, an unending cough from a cold I just can't shake, sore throat, low energy, etc. etc.

My next treatment is on Wednesday, and my fast begins tonight!

Here is a link for more of Valter Longo's published and unpublished research

http://www.l-nutra.com/news/news/

By the way, Valter told me that even the oncologists at USC fast before chemo now when they get cancer. (Longo works out of the USC medical center.)

Here is Valter speaking about his research on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjABM8UmBzI

Good luck to you!

-Windlass

Robyn_S · May 2011

Continued.. I spoke to my MO about the efficacy and whether there is any medical reason not to try fasting before chemo - I am due for chemo no 2 (FEC) next Tuesday 24th may. She was positive and as I am in good health (apart from the pesky cancer) with a good weight then I can try it so long as I keep well hydrated. PLENTY of fluids while fasting!

I would not do it without the oncologists okay so it is a very individual decision based on doing no harm first !! You have to be realistic and it would not be for everyone!

I will post when done with the next chemo and let know how I fared! I am a scientist so will try to be as objective as possible !

Cheers Robyn

Anonymous · May 2011

-

Thank you all for your responses and additional information. I will not be receiving any medications prior to the 1st chemo. Robyn, my first chemo (FEC) is on May 24, 2011. I guess I'm one treatment behind you. While my MO was not open to the idea of fasting, he had no medical reason for why I should not do so. My BMI is in the normal range (23-24) and I have excellent health other than the cancer. My MUGA scan had excellent results and I am a runner, although no running has happened since my BMX with SIEA on April 5/11.

Robyn, how may hours are you planning to fast before and after your next chemo? I will be very interested to compare notes with you after May 24.

If the oncologists at USC are fasting before chemo, that is pretty convincing to me that it is at least worth a try for someone in good health. Also, Windlass' comparison of her chemo SE with and without fasting is more reason to consider this option which costs nothing and does not involve putting additional drugs into your system.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Hi winterpeg! I am going to fast for 60 hours pre and 24 hours post chemo- I emailed windlass and she said that she had fasted for 62pre/24 post and was doing that again this week. The case studies from the research paper by Valter deLongo had periods of 24-120 hours pre & up to 48 post TX but i prefer a moderate fast. My chemo is 10am Tuesday do that means from 10 pm Saturday to about noon Wednesday given that treatment takes a couple of hours if going smoothly.

Fingers crossed that it gives some relief from the SEs while helping to knock those pesky cancer cells to the kerb!

Good luck - Robyn

Anonymous · May 2011

Hi Robyn, I exchanged emails with Dr. Longo yesterday and he also cited 62 hours before and 24 hours after chemo. He said blood pressure could drop significantly at those numbers so not to drive and to have someone with you at all times during this period. Also said to let your own doc know about the fasting.

I'm not sure I can do those numbers but may try fasting 48 hours before and as long as I can after chemo which I'm guessing may not be more than 2-6 hours.

neecee · May 2011

I sure wish I had found this thread sooner! I have my first treatment Monday, so no opportunity to discuss with my MO before treatment. I had been thinking about fasting before treatment, and found this thread this morning.

I will discuss it with my MO for round 2. In the meantime, I will be monitoring all your results!

Anonymous · May 2011

Neecee, please share with us your MO's views about fasting once you get a chance to speak with him/her.

Also, what is your chemotherapy treatment? I am getting FEC x3 and Taxotere x3 with my 1st FEC on May 24. I will start fasting tomorrow either after breakfast or after lunch...depending on how I feel.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Hi winterpeg! I started my fast last night for treatment 10 am Tuesday . I must admit that I will look forward to enjoying my lunch on Wednesday! Not sure if that thought will be the same after that dreaded red cocktail on Tuesday ! Last time I had emend, dexmthasone, onsetron and maxalon for antinausea for three days which held the nausea at bay without eliminating it. I went to work on day 2 but took the next 2 days at home as the meds tapered off. The gastro shock was awful and I we on laxatives for 5 days. Hopefully it will be better this time!

Good luck for Tuesday- the infusion was not as bad as I thought it would be so wishing you an easy time too!

Anonymous · May 2011

Hi Robyn, I just started my fasting after lunch today. It's only been about 5 hours but I'm happy to report that I easily resisted having an ice cream at the Dairy Queen when we stopped for the kids to have one. My DH passed on the ice cream to show his support although he was quick to add that he would be having supper. Hopefully, I will still be in good spirits at this time tomorrow. Since you and windlass are doing a 62 hour fast compared to my 24 hours, we can conduct our own mini trial.

Cyborg · May 2011

Hi. I started my fast last night. I am having chemo on Monday in the morning. Got to tell u I am having a raging headache. Drinking lots of water. I am going to be wild with hunger by tomorrow. I am however willing to do anything and everything I can to help my chemo be more effective. I am thrilled to be having coffee. Drinking Pelligribo as a treat. So my planks to be fasting for 32 hours prior to chemo. Took the steroids with a load of water. Got the OK from my MO. Planning on fasting until lunch on Wednesday. Interesting that the USC once are fasting if they need chemo.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Lol winterpeg, I would hate to justify the conclusions and do the stats on a sample number of 2 ! I have 24 hours to go and so far so good I have not had a great appetite since the last chemo though I haven't lost any large amount of weight!Taking lots of fluids= lots of trips to the bathroom - plenty of diet soda for minerals and a multivitamin each day. Distraction is good and I have plenty of work to do! Will be worth it if the next week is easier than last time!

Good luck for your first treatment tomorrow! I found it was such a relief mentally to get the first Tx over and done with!

Anonymous · May 2011

Hi Robyn and Cyborg,

I had my first chemo tx today, FEC, after 48.5 hours of fasting (chemo started half hour late) and it was painless. I had such a wonderful nurse who explained all the meds and side effects and patiently answered all of our questions. My DH and I were impressed.

After chemo I took my son to his back-to-back soccer practice and game. Thankfully, I brought my down filled winter parka, gloves and a blanket because it was It was only 9 degrees Celsius (48 Fahrenheit for you cyborg). After close to 2 hours, my feet were numb. Should have worn the winter boots I had in the trunk of the car. Can you believe we have a frost warning for tonight? Anyway, 6 hours after chemo ended, I am in bed with my flannel pjs finally warming up.

I took the strong anti-nausea med this evening as per MO directions. So far so good although my eyes started burning a bit about an hour ago but the eye drops seem to have helped that. I guess I will see what tomorrow brings. Hopefully this fasting will provide the results I'm aiming for.

I will be eating lunch around 2 pm tomorrow which will be 24 hours after the chemo started. I am really looking forward to eating! I forgot to ask whether the post chemo fast time starts from the beginning of the treatment or the end. What are you doing, Robyn and Cyborg?

Cyborg · May 2011

Thanks for checking in. Believe it or not our nights are pretty cool. No anti nausea meds yet for me. I am drinking tons of water. I did not like my first meal or coffee today. Nothing tastes good but pelligrino mineral water. Took some Tylenol. My eyes are burning too.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Hi winterpeg! I have finished my fast doing 62 hours pre and 24 hours post treatment. My 2nd FEC was at 11 am 24/5 and i was home by 2.30. The nausea kicked in by properly 6 pm and i had an extra pramin and a Tylenol + codeine for the emend headache and I was in bed by 9.30. slept like a baby and woke feeling really good. I had my am anti nausea meeds, made a chicken soup and went for an hours walk around the new local hardware store. Broke fast at 12 pm and the soup and bread it was wonderful! My sense of smell and taste is normal and the gastro shock (crampy brick like gastro tract) is absent compared to last Tx. Drinking lots to flush out chemo drugs!

Hope you are feeling well!

neecee · May 2011

Hey all - I discussed the fasting with my onc yesterday while I was in getting my Neulasta shot. She had not heard of the study, or the trial that Mayo is doing, but was open to me trying. In fact, she said it might be interesting to compare my SE this time non-fasting with my SE next time fasting. I have two weeks until next treatment, so time to prepare and research.

Cyborg · May 2011

Alright, Neecee-- u found the thread.

Anonymous · May 2011

Hi neecee, what is your chemo tx and how many rounds have you had so far? It's nice to hear that your onc was open to the fasting idea. When is your next chemo? I will also be interested to hear how your SEs compare with and without fasting.

Cyborg, how are you doing? What is your chemo plan? How many rounds did you have without fasting? Have you noticed a difference?

Robyn, what differences have you noticed, if any, between your first chemo and this most recent one? Btw, I also had chicken soup to break my fast at around 2 pm. My husband is our family's cook and his homemade lemon chicken and rice soup is delicious.

I lost about 5 pounds during my 3 day fast. I'm guessing it won't be long before I gain it back. I felt a little queazy last night but not too bad. I did notice a strange taste in my mouth today and tried the biotene mouthwash - hated it and will try salt and water. I feel tied today and have been resting a lot. Other than that things seem to be going well. Maybe day 3 is when people start to really feel the side effects?

Robyn_S · May 2011

Hi winterpeg! Today is day 2 post chemo and still on the emend and dexamethasone as per MOs script. I am feeling okay - last tx I went to work on this day but today went out shopping and to a family gathering no naps do energy levels on a par or better than last tx.

My sense of smell and taste is still good - last tx both went completely off for 10 days- but have been enjoying cooking and eating in small portions! This has helped the whole nausea thing too. I would fast just for this effect!! I can eat mints for nausea relief without spitting them out for a chemical taste!

I have no headaches at all now - I had one after the infusion but it was gone the next morning. Last time I had a low grade headache for 2-3 days and needed tylenol twice a day or more.

The gastro tract is much more comfortable without the crampy brick like feeling that I had last tx with constipation for 3 days post tx even with laxatives from day 1. I have not had much to eat, plain good food - bread, soup, scones, (tonight though a good steak and 3 veg!) as I feel bloated with the need to drink and flush the drugs out but have plenty of good fruit juice and stay away from artificial flavorings & preservatives. Chocolate milk is good at bedtime! Overall the gastro shock is much lessened.

Sleeping well like last time. My skin and face is less dry and yellowish ( chemo poisoned look !) with people commenting that I look well today - rosy steroid cheeks! Overall I probably lost 2 kg in weight with the fast but as I am about 8 kg overweight I will have plenty to see me through the next 4 treatments! No mouth sores at all - I use biotene toothpaste & mouthwash twice a day. No infections or viruses.

Overall I feel better than last tx even though I think that the SEs had the potential to be much worse with the accumulation effect of chemo treatment. Last time it was 10 days to a comfortable healthy gastro feeling- even though I as a bit puffed out in the garden pruning roses on the Saturday as I remember - that will be my benchmark!

My WBC blood cells were in low normal ranges, platelets 400 & HB 12.6 ( high & mid normal) pre chemo but my neutrophils were low at 1.9 ( 2.5 low range normal) so it will be interesting if the fasting improves this objectively.

Cyborg and winterpeg - how are you comparing to last treatment or experiencing this tx?

I look forward to hearing how you are doing! (((hugs))) Robyn

neecee · May 2011

Winterpeg, I am on the TC x 4 plan. First treatment was this past Monday, next one in 3 weeks.

neecee · May 2011

cyborg - good to see you here!

Anonymous · May 2011

Hi Robyn, Cyborg and Neecee,

So glad to hear you are doing better with the side effects today, Robyn.

Well today was my second full day post chemo and I woke up feeling fabulous and back to myself. I couldn't believe that the feeling would last so decided to wait until bedtime to post, just in case things changed. Thankfully, they didn't and I was able to eat and enjoy three meals, including pepperoni pizza for supper as well as my first coffee in days and watermelon as a snack. I've had this enormous craving for orange juice on ice - delicious. My sister and I went for a long walk (hour and ten minutes) this afternoon and I watched my children's back to back soccer games this evening. The funky/fuzzy feeling in my mouth was almost gone and the only few moments of queasiness occurred when I took the two Zofran pills. Thankfully I only have one of six of those pills left. I did not take any of the in between pills (Reglan) today. I hope I continue to feel like this tomorrow and until my next chemo.

I don't know if I would have felt this good after chemo without having done the 48 hour pre and 24 hour post chemo fasting but I don't think I want to test that out. I plan to fast again next time.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your experiences and will keep you posted about mine in the following days. Take care all of you.

Robyn_S · May 2011

Hello all, so good that you are feeling so well today Winnipeg!

Today is day 3 post chemo and first without meds (steroids or nausea) on board at all. Everything is going well and after a nap this afternoon I had a walk which encouraged the bottom end without laxatives! This day Last tx I needed pramin (maxalon for nausea) Tylenol for headaches and laxatives. Appetite is good - 3 meals , yogurt,fruit, cheese, bread and pizza for supper! and none of the taste and smell issues I had last time!

Cyborg and neecee I hope you are doing well and recovering from your tx! (((hugs)))

Cyborg · May 2011

Appetite and taste are still off but I am telling you , if it helps in the long run then I am for it. Still tired today but not sleeping like I have been since Wednesday. Got out of bed early today.

Cyborg · June 2011

HI there. I plan on fasting beginning Friday night to prepare for the infusion ( sounds so "spa like" ) on Monday. Ansyone with me?

Anyone fasting to boost chemo effectiveness & to reduce SE?

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