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GirlFriday4
GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14

Can somebody help me to understand my friend's prognosis... stage II, no lymph involvement, invasive. I know there are things on Google, but I'm not sure I understand the "five year survival." Is this a death sentence? I thought her prognosis was good, and it seems the more I look, the more scared I get.

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  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited March 2011

    A prognosis is just a guess, that's all it is. And it would depend on a lot more information than you've posted. We'd need to know her age and hormonal status - ER/PR and HER2 as well as the grade of her cancer. What put her as Stage II? Was it size of tumour? What is the name of her type of cancer?

    Breast cancer can NEVER be cured. Once you have it, you will always be looking over your shoulder for the next shoe to drop. She may or may not metastacize during the remainder of her life and the 5 year marker is good only if she is ER-. If she is ER+, that is a slower growing cancer and we actually have to start worrying AFTER the 5 year mark. Being cancer-free for 5 years does not make her cured, by the way, it would only make her "No Evidence of Disease" or NED (they used to say remission, but that implies the cancer is all gone). They just use the 5 year mark as it is a common marker across all cancers. We're supposed to feel lucky that we've lived 5 years with cancer. Most people will die of something else before thier breast cancer takes them.

    As you can see, it is a very scary diagnosis. It's not all pink and fluffy and rah, rah, rah! Be a good friend and let her talk about her fears right up to planning her own funeral if that's where she wants to go with it. Do NOT tell her to be positive. That's a load of crap and implies that she wasn't positive enough and she got cancer. Don't tell her how strong she is - she probably feels very weak inside. Just listen. This is her game, not yours.

    Good luck with your friend, please let us know how she's doing as time goes on.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited March 2011

    When they say 5 years they don't mean your friend will only live 5 years. It talks about the chances she will be alive in 5 years. There isn't a switch that all of a sudden gets turned off when 5 years comes up. It's just a milestone as is 10 years and 15  years.

    Stage is only part of what they look at for prognosis. As Barbe mentioned hormone status, HER2 status, family history, age, genetic gene etc. all are important markers. This is a very complex disease… actually breast cancer is really a general term for many diseases.

    A lot of things you read online can be dated or just not true. Always have her check with her doctors about any information she gets online including this site.

    Here are a couple of other sites have reliable information:

    http://www.cancer.org/  
    http://ww5.komen.org/BreastCancer/UnderstandingBreastCancer.html 
    http://www.cancer.gov/

    Stage link  

  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    THANK YOU for the information, so much. I am not asking her for any information she is not giving. The only reference point I have for this is all the health issues and surgeries I went through with my toddler, and I remember getting so peeved when people would say, "You have to be positive!" and "It could be worse!" and of course those things were true, but sometimes, I needed to just be sad, so I could be stronger for him in the long run. So at least I get that. I remember when people said I was this amazing mom, and strong, I felt like a fraud. This friend was so amazing through that, she never once made it about her, and if I can be half the friend she was to me during that then I'll be awesome. It is terrifying. Here are her stats. she has no idea I'm posting here, but she will totally know who it is if she sees it! We're very close. She's 39. Man, she is just truly one of the best people I've ever known, and I hate that she and her family are having to go through this. I'm listening as much as she wants to talk, and I'm definitely telling her, yes, it indeed sucks. That's okay, right? Not agreeing with her when she says that, I don't know, seems fake. It really does suck. I'm cooking as much as I can for her and her family. What else can I do for her? Any advice would be welcome. I have thick skin, my feelings won't be hurt if I'm doing something wrong. I just want to know how to do the best for her I can.

    Invasive or Infiltrating Ductal Carcinoma, IDC, 2cm, Stage II, Grade 3, ER+/PR-, HER2+
  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    Thank you also lago... that makes me feel slightly better. When I saw that 5 years I completely panicked. Barbe, isn't it amazing how people have so many ideas about how you should or shouldn't be feeling when they have no idea what your'e going through? This community here is really incredible. Congratulations on finishing chemo, my friend starts next week. She is scared, of course, and rightly so. I know being part of this discussion board has helped her. I apologize for being so inarticulate, words are failing me right at the moment.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited March 2011

    Ask her what you can do.  Seriously tell her you want to help and if she needs to let you know what you can do.

    Looks like she will be getting chemo, herceptin  and I'm guessing tamoxifen. I'm sure she'll need help cleaning the house. Not sure about where she is in treatment but if she hasn't started chemo yet but had surgery she might need help styling/washing her hair.

    The scariest thing about this journey is just not knowing what's going to happen or how you will react to things like surgery, chemo, drugs etc. I highly recommend if she can find someone who has recently been through this to talk to. Maybe she can ask her BS or onc for suggestions. I have spoken with several folks from this forum that live locally. It really helps.

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited March 2011

    You're doing great! Yes, it does SUCK!! Say it often and say it LOUD!!!!

    Cooking for her is good. How about babysitting? Chores like groceries, going to appointments with her...stuff like that. It's the little things she'll remember, like a little stuffed bear, rather than the grand gestures.

    2 cm isn't huge, but it ain't small either. Grade 3 is more aggressive. She is HER2+ which is an aggressive marker as well, but now they have a miralce drug called Herceptin that is making a huge dramatic effect in the lives saved/extended. If you read stuff on the internet about HER2+ it would scare you to death. It's old news. You must focus on the latest research you can find. Triple negative is a hard diagnosis to get hit with as it's harder to control, so at least she has only one negative hormone marker.

    Make her laugh till she cries. It's an outlet. Watch chick flicks to cry, it's an outlet. Allow her to cry and for goodness sakes, don't say "It'll be okay". You don't know that! No one does.

    So, that being said, she will probably be treated pretty aggressively. It will knock her socks off and she'll need you there to find the humour, joy, and love in everyday living.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited March 2011

    We were all scared shitless of chemo. I remember my 1st treatment just sitting there waiting for something to happen. Nothing ever did. Very uneventful. I worked out the next day for 70 minutes that's how uneventful it was. Everyone reacts differently but the worst part of it was the Zyrtec. Antihistamines always make me spacey. After a week my system got used to the Zyrtec. Not everyone gets Zyrtec though.

  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    You have no idea how grateful I am that you've taken the time to answer this post. Like I said before, this community is incredible. I haven't read anything online anywhere but here and cancer.org because I don't want to misinform myself. Thanks for the other two sites lago, and Barbe for the heads up on that; I'd have freaked right out. She did mention a new really good drug, so Herceptin must be it. She's lucky to have access to Dana Farber; I hear that's a great place to be. I'm holding out hope that she will have the same reaction to chemo as you lago. We live closer to the hospital than she does (she is in another state, but not too far) so I've offered babysitting and our house. They could move in here for six months if it would help them. But she also has a career and a job to keep. I can't even imagine...

    I hate when people say things will be okay when they have no idea whether that's true. I am trying to be optimistic personally, but not to make her feel bad if she is not feeling positive, because again, I really got bugged when people had that "buck up" regarding my son's health issues, as well as I know they meant. Is the science behind being positive even true? I mean, I have known several really positive and healthy people who died from cancer, so clearly it is not true for many. (This is probably another reason why I can't bring myself to say one of those trite little things, because that would imply that they weren't positive enough to beat it. Another peeve of mine, when people say, 'Oh not even cancer could bring down Billy!' or whichever survivor.... that implies that the people who didn't survive were weaker, and clearly that is not true.) But they used to say imagining you're kicking the cancer's ass has been shown to help. Still true? Probably the laughing until tears is better, huh? 

    Thanks again ladies.  

  • suzanneinphoenix
    suzanneinphoenix Member Posts: 208
    edited March 2011

    You sound like you are an amazing person.....I think you are being a great friend!

  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited March 2011

    The best thing you can do is what you're already doing:  being a friend & listening -- I think your compassion for her is terrific.

    I was best friend/primary caregiver for a friend who went through pancreatic cancer and I remember once she said to me that she felt like she could say anything to me because I didn't try to pretend things weren't true (like, cancer sucks!!).  So know that you are giving your friend a very wonderful gift.  My friend cried on my shoulder a lot -- but we also laughed a lot. 

    One very small caveat:  make sure you don't take on things that she wants to do for herself... there is so little we can control with this disease, so doing some things we can control can be very important for self-image/respect/whatever.  You sound like you're being really sensitive to her so I don't see this as a problem for you at all.

    The science behind being positive... well, I keep hearing there IS science behind it but then I hear the opposite -- that survival rates have nothing to do with people who are positive vs. the ones who aren't.  I do know that pushing your emotions down is not healthy, and having an outlet for them is important.  That doesn't mean you can't put on a positive spin for some people (I only told certain people the whole enchilada, and for the rest I often said things like I was doing well and focusing on healing and recovery) and it sure doesn't mean you can't enjoy life.  But cancer sucks, treatment sucks, and it's hard, and it often leads to depression (that's something to be aware of -- plenty of people end up on anti-depressants temporarily and there's no shame in that).

    I used a lot of visualization (& other) meditations -- the kicking cancer butt kind of thing -- there are some good CD's out there, including some specifically for chemo and radiation meditations; if you want more info, let me know.

    I did hate it when people said, "Oh, be positive and you'll be fine!" as if I really had that much control -- please! I also hated it because (as you mention) it implies that it's somehow your fault that you're sick to begin with.  

    You were strong with your child -- you were there and you did what you had to do.  Being strong isn't not feeling weakness, sadness, etc. -- it's showing up and doing what you have to do.   I did really hate it when people told me how strong I was because I didn't feel strong, but I also knew that I really WAS strong -- because I was doing it, as hard as it was.  Your friend will have that kind of strength, too -- and when she gets to the other side of treatment, she'll realize just how strong she really is.

    And you are, too, by being her friend and being there. Laugh with her, do what she wants you to do, have fun with her... and know that you don't have to have all the answers for her, you just have to be there and hold her hand.  You are the best kind of friend and she's lucky to have you.  My very best and a warm hug to both of you.

  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    Thank you, Suzanne and naturegrrl (love your moniker), more helpful words for me. I appreciate the caveat, something that hadn't occurred to me. Not that I could control things for her if I wanted to, she's feisty! :) The first thing she did before her diagnosis was go get more life insurance, I wouldn't have even thought of that. I had to laugh at her proactive mind. I'm following her, not trying to lead.... she is a researcher so there's no way I could discover anything she hasn't already seen and processed. That's one reason I waited to come here, but now, I just got scared and so many people around her are so scared, I feel like she's always comforting those around her, and until she cries on my shoulder, I don't want to cry. I mean, how lame would it be to cry on her shoulder? (way lame.)

    I wrote a whole blog around feeling like  a fraud when people would compliment my parenting. I yell at my kids like everyone else, make bad choices sometimes, am flawed. I thought, "just because we're dealing with this, does it make me better than one who is not?" It didn't seem so, though I did appreciate the faith. And I have to agree with you, I feel a hell of a lot stronger now than I was at the beginning of it all. I am grateful for that if it helps me help her and her family in any way. 

    Smothering emotions is never good, and she's getting a lot of the chin up sorta stuff on facebook -- I cringe every time. I know people mean so well, so I can't be mad at them, but if she posts that she wishes she could hole up all day and cry under her covers, shouldn't she be allowed to do that? One cancer survivor actually said, "Those are the days you need to get out the most," and I thought, sure, if it were the second week of her crying in bed, I'd be coming to drag her out for a pedicure, but can't the woman have a flipping day to wrap her brain around this new life? Not that she is defined by this, but it's a pretty big deal. Of course, she couldn't have that, she had to work today. If they'd let me do her job for her, I would, but I doubt if that would go over. She has been on something for relaxation, and is going to ask for something different. Shoot, I feel like I could use an antidepressant at this point! She and her husband should definitely have them if they want, I think. She isn't sleeping. Yes, meditation info would be good. I'll just sit on the info until I hear her mention an interest, or mention once and see if she's receptive. I know better than to be pushy, because she'll have more than her share of pushy relatives and friends.... all meaning well, but, well, I am sure I don't have to tell anyone here any more about that.

     We have a date to go wig shopping at some point soon. One of the first things she said to me was, "I will not be a cute bald person!" to which I replied, "Only Natalie Portman looks cute bald, and maybe Sinead O'connor... but you could totally rock a blue wig!" She laughed at that. I think she's slightly psyched about trying different hair styles. I might even buy one with her if they're not too expensive so we can both rock the wig from time to time. I'm giving her my kids' dental cleanings appts which happen to be tomorrow if she can't get in before chemo starts. It's the little things she has thought of and is trying to coordinate that I'm trying to help facilitate.

    Thanks so much again women. I know you don't want to hear it Barbe, and I contradict my prior statements by uttering this, but you do all seem pretty darn strong to me.  

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited March 2011

    I think meditation is a GREAT idea!! There seems to be a LOT of waiting around during testing and treatment. She could really zone out in an MRI or CT scans! Also, it would help her to fall asleep. I recorate my house to fall asleep....

  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited March 2011

    We ARE strong. We just often don't feel very strong.   We cry, despair, moan and groan, have  pity parties -- like anyone else -- but then get up and get on with it.  And yes, she should be allowed to pull the covers over her head and cry (or even to just FEEL like she wants to do that).  One reason I didn't post on FB much was that I got so much of that well-intentioned but mis-directed "be happy, chin up!" crap :)

    I think it's probably OK to ask your friend if she's interested in xyz, or does she want you to do xyz.  Although it's also OK to wait for her to ask, sometimes I appreciated when someone just offered to do something that I wouldn't have thought of asking for. When I didn't want whatever it was, I had no problem saying so :) and I suspect your friend won't, either.

    And as for crying on her shoulder... well, do what feels right, for sure, but I have to say I was so grateful when someone expressed their caring and concern for me.  I had one friend who burst into tears when she saw me bald -- not out of surprise but because she knew so closely what I was going through.  And although I cried with her for a minute, I really, really appreciated the honest emotion and knowing that she cared. Do what feels right, follow your gut, and you'll be fine.

    One thing that helped me a lot that your friend may or may not want to do was having a blog so that I didn't have to tell everyone the same thing over and over.  Some people use caringbridge.org and some people just start a blog.  I found I was too tired to want to email back day after day or even talk to people, saying the same things I'd already told half a dozen people, so the blog allowed them to keep up with me and saved me some energy.  I didn't post everything on it because there were some things I didn't want to share with everyone, but I could post the basics and whatever else I wanted to share with the world at large.

    Everyone deals with the hair loss differently, so this is strictly in the FWIW department: some women have a shave-my-head party, with family and/or friends.  People with kids sometimes involve their kids, too, to make it less scary for them.  A lot of people really have fun with it.  I just went in and had it shaved when it started falling out (I couldn't bear the emotions of watching it come out handful by handful) but some people let it come out all on its own.

    Meditation CD's:  Look for Belleruth  Naparstek.  I got two CD's, free, from an oncology social worker who got them from Roche Labs -- you can buy her CD's as well but it's worth trying to get them free. I also used a CD by Denise Linn ("Complete  Relaxation"), Andrew Weil's "Breathing: the Master Key to Self Healing" (he gives some techniques that you can use very quickly (like when stopped in traffic) and some that require more time); and Jon Kabat-Zinn, "Guided Mindfulness Meditation." 

    There's a thread with more ideas -- my links to other threads never work but look for the "recommend your resources" forum, and then the "relaxation/meditation CD you'd recommend" thread (it's right near the top).  They did some upgrades on the boards so the jump links in the upper right corner aren't working for me (they may be for you) but if you go to the forum index and scoll down, you'll see the "recommend..." forum.  Or see if you can copy and paste this:  

    http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/26/topic/765695?page=1#idx_14

    Anyway, hope some of this helps.  I got way off track from the meditation response!  Hang in there, and more hugs!

  • NatureGrrl
    NatureGrrl Member Posts: 1,367
    edited March 2011

    PS, GirlFriday, I didn't mean to suggest you were/are in any way controlling, and I'm sorry if what I wrote came out that way.  The reason I said what I said is because of this:

    One friend of mine, Nancy, had kidney cancer, and when it was advanced she had to give up a lot... a job she loved, certain activities, etc.,  One day another friend, Linda, went by to visit and say hi... and as Nancy and Linda were close and had known each other for years, it was natural for Linda to just pitch in.  She saw that Nancy had a bunch of drycleaning that needed to go out, so as she left she scooped it up and said she'd take it in... and Nancy said there was so much she couldn't do and couldn't control, why was Linda taking away one of the few things she could do and control?  Linda felt horrible and told me this story and we both cried.  Anyway, that's all I meant -- to just be careful about stepping on those moments -- but sometimes there's just no way you can know and it can happen anyway.

    I'll shut up now :)

  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    Thanks so much Naturegrrl, or Carol? I didn't take anything  you said as being critical .... like I said I have pretty thick skin. I actually hadn't considered that caveat and appreciated you bringing it up. These are the things that only someone who has been through it can know, and I really want to hear those things. I don't, even unwittingly, want to make things harder for my friend. As we've touched on, even when people mean well, they can say the most unhelpful things. 

    I'm definitely comfortable expressing my emotions, but I do feel like she vents to me about how sad people are, how worried she is that they will cry .... I feel like she's spending lots of time comforting everyone around her. I don't want to put her in that position. But she has heard me a little teary. I'm not the type to hide my emotions well. I know we'll get the chance to hug and cry, but it hasn't happened organically and I'm not about to launch it, b/c that puts her in the awkward position of once again, comforting someone when she needs comfort.

    Barbe and Carol, I'll talk to her about meditation.... just briefly though unless she takes an interest. I love the idea myself. I really don't want to be one of those pushy people.  Those people really irked me when I was dealing with stuff. And, I already was super pushy when it came to getting a second opinion. I'd better space my pushiness out or I'll become annoying. 

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited March 2011

    It's normal for us to comfort those around us. As women, we hate making someone feel sad. I actually felt guilty for geting cancer! I didn't want my family to worry. So I was very calm about it and that's how they took it. I almost wish someone HAD cried with me!

    The last thing we want is PITY. Do not show pity even if you feel it! It's also hard to become a statistic.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited March 2011

    OMG Barbe that is so true. I told my mom nothing until after my biopsy when the radiologist said I had cancer. Figured it was time to tell. That was an entire month before I told her. Mom was shocked she never heard it in my voice. I had many crying sessions all by myself prior to surgery. Cried like I never cried before.

    I never felt guilty though. I think shocked would be better word in my case. I was just hoping to wake up from this awful nightmare.

  • She
    She Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2011

    Get her a binder with dividers and help her set up her lab results, scan results, pathology report(s) appointments and questions she will want to ask her surgeon(s) and oncologist(s).  Having this info all in one place is a great tool and saves a lot of time when going from one medical group to another (especially if files are being transmitted).  For example,Oncologists don't treat common illnesses, so she'll probably have to go back to her family physician if she has other health items to address.

    While many treatments are moving from standardised to individualised we still all react differently to treatment.  Some sail through, some are sick as dogs and the rest fall somewhere in between.  My motto was always "prepare for the worst, expect the best".

    Thank you for being such a loving friend. 

  • AmyIsStrong
    AmyIsStrong Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2011

    What a good friend you are. It warms my heart to think of her having you there in the year ahead. (Herceptin is given over a year-long period.)

    I was very shaky when I went wig shopping. My husband came, but since I didnt' totally trust his judgement (lol), I brought my beloved sister in law (who is my best friend).  She kept the mood light, I tried on some regular wigs (one of which I bought) but also had some fun with some punk crazy blonde wings, red, etc.  We brought a camera and I love those pictures. I walked into the wig place very anxious, but came out laughing. So I am glad you are going with her.

    Re chemo - she may want company, or she may prefer to be left alone. My mom came with me for the first one - I ended up sleeping almost the whole time due to the benadryl.  So after that, my husband brought me, stayed until the infusion was started and then left so I could sleep, and picked me up later.  My sister in law came to the 4th one and I realized that it was more of an effort to stay awake to talk with her, and was not helpful. So then I went back to just being by myself (and sleeping).  So you will have to see what she prefers. A friend of mine stayed awake the whole time and her friends came and played scrabble with her.  After her treatment was done, she held a big fundraiser and raised money to buy a bunch of board games for the chemo room at her hospital.  I thought that was wonderful -but wouldn't have made a difference for me - i was busy sleeping!

    I found that my IPOD  really helped me during the treatment period. I had trouble sleeping at night (due the the steroids given during chemo, plus just general worrying) and I used it to help me sleep, I took it to chemo and listened to it. I put it on during blood draws or anything else scary, to distract me. (Now I take it to the dentist - works wonders!)  So if she doesn't have one, that might be a great gift (maybe some other friends can chip in) - or if she does have one, maybe you can load it up with all different kinds of music (and podcasts, which are great to help you fall asleep at night).

    Encourage her to come to the TCH board - that is the chemo she will most likely be getting, along with Herceptin. it is a very active board with TONS of suggestions, support and advice.

    Also, my nieces made me a hanging calendar - index cards connected by a ribbon, one for each treatment, with a check box to mark them off as I had them.  It hangs from ceiling to floor.  I had to stand on a step to reach when I checked off the final boxes.  I  have been done for almost a year now but I still keep it hanging in my office. It is one of the things I am most proud of.  So maybe something like that might help.

    Again, thank you for being such a loving and sensitive friend.

  • dogsandjogs
    dogsandjogs Member Posts: 1,907
    edited March 2011

    Barbe and Iago:  I am so glad you guys shared this. I felt exactly the same: didn't want my family to worry so didn't tell anyone until after the biopsy. My son was going to take me to the hospital, but had to leave town that day for a business meeting so  I had one neighbor take me to the hospital for the surgery and another one pick me up.  Friends had offered, but-----

    I guess in a way I have been selfish - having friends and family too involved would make me feel too dependent and I hate feeling dependent.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited March 2011
    srbreastcancersurvivor you should never feel dependent about an illness. Most people want to help you or they wouldn't have offered. Just look at this thread GirlFriday started. People feel so helpless when they hear… and feel so good when they can help.
  • AmyIsStrong
    AmyIsStrong Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2011

    Iago - lots of wisdom in your post.  I, too, always hated feeling dependent.  I was supermom/superwoman.  The most pivotal way I have grown through this cancer experience is in learning to ask for help, graciously receive help, and let my loved ones LOVE ME actively. It was very significant for me to learn that it was ok to be weak sometimes, need help, and ask. Not easy, but in the long run, very good for me.
    I always felt (in my heart of hearts) that I had to be on top of everything and on the giving end of the relationship for people to love me.  And I have learned that they love me FOR ME, not for what I provide, give, or do for them.

    I would certainly NEVER say that cancer was a gift or that I am glad it happened. I hate it! BUT I determined early on that if I had to go through all this tx, I would gain everything I could from it, in terms of personal growth. And this was one thing that I definitely learned.

  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    Lago, Barbe, and srbreastcancersurvivor, I hear her in your words. One of the first things she said to me (she was calling me with updates all the way, sometimes even before her husband because she knew how upset he would be) was, "I have to tell my mom. I have to tell my mom and she's going to cry." So that's the kind of person she is (and you are too) that you're so worried about the people you love that you put your own comfort to the side. I think she does feel guilty for putting her family through this... that sort of breaks my heart. I made a joke about it to her, and she laughed (in the vein of, yes, damn you, going off and getting breast cancer, how very selfish) but I am pretty sure she feels guilty anyway. Thinking back, I probably shouldn't have even said that. Sometimes it's hard to know when to only listen, and when to try and make her feel better. Like you said Barbe, it's feminine instinct to try to get people to feel better. And it's my instinct to try and make people laugh.

    She, I love the idea of the binder. Referencing lago's post, she is very particular about her filing systems; I don't know if I'd get the right thing! I did tell her early on to buy something because I know I tried to keep my son's paperwork in our regular file, and it doubled it quickly. She thought maybe a box, so maybe I should try to find something and give it to her w/ a gift receipt. I thought knowing where things were would be easier than chucking everything in a box.

    I love the idea of the calendar too Amy. My kids could help with something like that maybe...  

    I already had talked to her about the chemo, and said I'd come with her some too if she didn't want her husband to go each time. She seems to think she will want to be alone, so I told her whatever she wants... but I was trying to think up suggestions for her while she waits. iPod is an excellent idea, and I hadn't even thought of Podcasts. Although these days, it can't be news... between Japan and the Middle East and Africa, she'll only get depressed.

    I do feel she genuinely is asking of me when she needs. I was able to pick up some files for her at one point because they were closer to me than her, and when she picked them up sent a bunch of food home with her. and if she stops coming by I'll take her grocery money, no matter how much it pains me to do so. I guess I really just have to let her call the shots. Maybe it's really important to her that she gives us money for food. I hadn't thought about it like that before. Maybe my refusing it makes her feel even more guilty. I guess I will just tell her she should do whatever she needs but that in no way is it necessary. (?) That family was so generous with us while we had our son going through surgeries. I feel like it's just their good karma coming back to them. I know being at doctors strains the budget, even with insurance, in ways you hadn't imagined. 

    Oh, man, if this is hard for ME to figure out, what must my friend be going through? I don't mean that in a manner of pity... just genuine hurt that she has to go through all this. She told me a few days ago that she just keeps waiting for someone to tell her it's all some joke. A few weeks ago she was unconcerned but getting a lump checked. Now she's about to start chemo. I know she has got to be so scared. It might be trite, but I'm really pissed off at cancer. Not just for her, but for everyone who has it. 

    As always, thank you all so much. You women are awesome, and I really appreciate your help. 

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited March 2011

    Yes telling mom was the hardest. GirlFriday I'm sure she gets your dry sarcastic humor being from New England (I'm originally from SE of Boston so I've got it too). She was laughing with you. I have the same humor.

    If you don't want to take money for food tell her she can take you out to dinner/lunch after this is all done and she's feeling better. Making plans for the future will be good for her mentally.

    Chemo is boring. Lots of waiting. Tell her to bring something to do (book, video game, ipad, knitting what ever).

  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2011

    AmyisStrong, I also wanted to say I loved your post. I think my friend is trying to learn to ask for help too, and she is always independent, do-it-myself strong lady.

    Lago, I realized she does get my humor, she just doesn't always have time and energy to chat with me like we'd like....which of course I understand. Tonight we got a good full hour plus on the phone, and we both laughed a lot. (We also covered some serious ground too.) It was great.  

  • susan_02143
    susan_02143 Member Posts: 7,209
    edited March 2011

    Late to the party.. but I totally understand her insistence of paying for her own food. So you take the money, tuck it away, and deliver the food. At the end of all of this, throw a party with the money to celebrate the end of treatment and to thank everyone who pitched in to help.

    Or buy her tickets to a show on Broadway... or or or.

    *susan* 

  • barbe1958
    barbe1958 Member Posts: 19,757
    edited March 2011

    Not taking her money is like her accepting charity. If she can afford it, let her pay. Otherwise it's in the same state as pity.

    Sounds like you have a good grip on her emotions. She'll sway back and forth, so if you just stay in the middle, it'll work.

    As for the box, a binder or banker's file would be more portable. She may have to provide one doctor a report from another. A bankers (expandable) file would be far more easy to access.

  • Treso
    Treso Member Posts: 149
    edited April 2011

    Everyone has given such great advice and shared much about their experiences, I thought I'd put in my two cents.  I couldn't tell my mom, my sister told her for me.  I knew it would break her heart.  I have always been a "I can do it myself" kind of gal but, what I realized after being diagnosed is that the things we allow people to do for us help them to process what is happening to their daughter, friend, sister, etc.  We lost my 12 year old niece to leukemia and, when it came time for my chemo, my sister-in-law said she wanted to bring me to all of my chemo appointments because "no one should go through this alone".  My first reaction was, no, thanks.  I can do this myself.  I don't need any help.  For once, I thought before I spoke and told her yes.  It was one of the best things to come out of my diagnosis.  We (she) talked about her daughter more in the five months of my chemo than in the nine years since she passed away.  She had buried so much more than her daughter.  From then on, I learned that "yes, I need help" means so many things. 

    GirlFriday, you sound like a wonderful friend.

  • AmyIsStrong
    AmyIsStrong Member Posts: 1,755
    edited April 2011
    Treso - your post brought tears to my eyes. Even in terrible situations, some good things can come out of them, if we let them. Thank you for the reminder.
  • GirlFriday4
    GirlFriday4 Member Posts: 14
    edited April 2011

    Barbe and susan, and all the rest of you awesome women who have taken the time to respond to me, I actually talked to her about the food, and was able to remind her that strangely, we are on alternate schedules of doctor appointments. That is to say, a year ago, my family was losing so much through copays, parking, lunch out .... having medical issues is expensive, and that's if we're lucky enough to have insurance. They did so much to supplement that time for us. Now I feel like it's just ... I don't know... I want to be able to do this for them. If they want to pay for the groceries, that's fine. After my last post here I realized I didn't want to make her feel as if I was taking something away from her. But when we talked, I mentioned how hard of a hit that financial element is (neither of us have tons of extra money, though we're doing okay and are lucky).. then she just said "Thank you." so I think she felt comfortable taking our help.

    Treso, words fail me. I'm so sorry for your loss. I have seen so many close people slip away too young from cancer, particularly leukemia. I really appreciate you sharing your chemo experience. It is a good reminder to me. This is all so confusing - I want to be the best friend, and most present I can be, but the nuances of knowing when you should back off and persist are ... tricky. The same idea that is threaded in all these women's posts. I suppose I'll feel it out and try to take her cues.... sometimes maybe just doing what I think is right. Does that sound right? 

    PS Susan, if she does want to pay at some point, though she seems comfortable now, i will tuck it away and take your suggestion. So great! Already I want to take us to a show, depending on how she reacts to chemo next week.  

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