Taxotere is a nightmare

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  • motherofpatient
    motherofpatient Member Posts: 240
    edited February 2011

    Re: tykerb studies. Oncs should know where studies call the ALTO Trials are being done becasue this is a big issue for HER2 positives because some either have or develop resistance to herceptin. It was discussed at the San Antonia conference.

  • TonLee
    TonLee Member Posts: 2,626
    edited February 2011

    Survivor, I have two more TCH treatments.  One Tuesday, and the last on the 22nd. 

    Then after a few weeks I hope to start getting expanded.  My first expansion, in concert with slow healing, popped open my MX incision, so we've been trying to get it to close since October.  It is finally closing...I hope it is healed before my last treatment.

    My radiologist is going to fight with me because I plan on waiting until I am fully expanded before radiation...that might be 6-8-12 weeks after my last chemo.  He won't like that....

  • tracie23
    tracie23 Member Posts: 598
    edited February 2011

    YAY!!! Tonlee only 2 more treatments... That is great !!!!

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited February 2011
    motherofpatient I'm sure my onc is aware. She went to the San Antonio conference, is the head of the onc dept and her area of study is HER2+ cancer. It's both her job to know and report to the department.
  • SAMayoFL
    SAMayoFL Member Posts: 958
    edited February 2011

    Hey Ladies, I am on 12 weekly Taxotere treatments.  I have completed 8 of 12 so I only have 4 more to go.  HOORAY!!!  I am counting down the days now till March 23.  Anyway, the real reason for my post is that I saw my onc. yesterday.  The main point of the visit was what happens after treatment is over and we talked about Tamoxifen vs. Femara, etc.  He said that lots of women complain about bone and joint pain on Tamox and Femara but the pain actually is a residual result of Taxol/Taxotere.  He said that Taxotere was a long lasting agent and I could expect to feel the pain for up to 2 - 3 YEARS!!!  I nearly fell over.  Lago, I actually told him about seeing the photos of your fingers and toes and that I would not complain about any of my SE's because yours were way worse.  He told me not to feel lucky too soon that he had seen many patients that lose fingernails and toenails months after Taxotere is finished.  I am telling you all of this so that we can continue to paint fingernails, take L-Carnitine-Acetyl (Sp?) and Glutamine, B-6 or whatever regimine we are still on after our active treatment is over.  If I had not seen him yesterday, I probably would have stopped some of the things I take that a specifically related to chemo SE's.

    If any of you who are finished have any other information, I would love to hear it.

    Susan

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited February 2011

    Susan my fingers look gross but that isn't the bad part. It's when they hurt. The hurting is much less this week so hopefully I'm on the mend.

    I too have the stiff muscles. I doubt it's going to take 2-3 years to go away. I'm sure it could but I'm not convinced of that. I know some have started to feel better after 2 months.

    … and you bet I'm still taking the Acetyl L Carnitine. I'm not stopping till my left heel is no longer numb. At times I do think my right heel might have it a little but it's pretty minor. 

    Do not think I had it worse than you. Remember I had no nausea, taste bud change was minimal, never got extreme fatigue, no headaches, no diarrhea, resolved mouth sores, no allergic reactions, kept most of my eyebrows and lashes and actually looked great the entire time.  (Granted I think I might be losing the lashes now but that's OK. They'll come back). I also have no children to take care of. No I had it pretty easy.

    Granted I'm sad to find out that this nail thing might take a long time to resolve. So far no one has been able to tell me when it starts to get better. I do think my thumbs and maybe 2 other fingernails are starting to grow out though. So far I haven't lost any fingernails but I'm pretty sure 1 or 2 might not survive. 

  • tracie23
    tracie23 Member Posts: 598
    edited February 2011

    Susan, I read your post and my stomach did a flip.... I hate to hear we may have se's for a long time.... My onc never says anything.... I sometimes wonder why he is even in this field... We want to know the worst of it so we are prepared....if it was his d___ and it was being radiated or partialy cut off or completely removed... he may think different about his answers.

  • SAMayoFL
    SAMayoFL Member Posts: 958
    edited February 2011

    Lago, I have to tell you I have prayed for you every day since I saw your pictures.  As bad as my nails hurt, although look normal, I know yours had to hurt like H@LL.  One of the things I have admired about you, and many of us, is that we have had our share of aches and pains but have been pretty tough warriors!  When he was telling me that the aches and pains could last 2 - 3 years, I was thinking the same thing.  Aw, BS.  However, I am glad he said it to some degree because I will continue to take the supplements and take special care of my feet and hands longer than if he hadn't said that. 

    It's funny that you mentioned that you looked good through your entire treatment.  I felt the same way until about two weeks ago.  It seems that chemo has hit my physical appearance really hard all of a sudden.  I am really retaining fluid bad and am puffy.  I feel like someone stuck a straw in me and blew me up!  My eyes run all the time so my eyes are puffy and dark.  All of a sudden, I look sick.  I barely recognize myself somedays.  I hope this does not take 2 - 3 years to pass!!

    Tracie, I totally agree.  Long term SE's of Taxol/Taxotere?  Isn't it bad enough being bald, I only have one boob, I have had major flu like sypmtoms for two weeks, they want to cut off my other boob and remove my uterus and ovaries.  All of that and deal with chemo aches and pains for 2 - 3 years!?!?!?!  WTH??

    Susan

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited February 2011

    No need to pray for the nails but thank you. I want to save the prayers for more life threatening issues. Smile

    I just spoke with a women who had/has the same nail issues. She said it started to get better for her after 2 months. It's been 5+ weeks so I'm almost there.  I am meeting her for the first time tonight for dinner (along with a few others from this site). I will ask about how long for the aches to go away.

    Yes I was swollen in the face but that looked good on me because I have a narrow thin face. Made me look younger. I complained to my onc that I was looking better/younger on chemo and I was gong to look like shit when I stopped chemo… yup my frown lines are back now. Frown

    Also, consealer is your best friend. Will hide those dark circles. I also used a powder bronzer. It might slim your face a bit. If you face gets red this will help too.

  • Survivorwoman
    Survivorwoman Member Posts: 620
    edited February 2011
    TonLee- two more treatments to go? Wow!  You will get through it!
  • SAMayoFL
    SAMayoFL Member Posts: 958
    edited February 2011

    Woohoo!!  I wish I was close enough to join you for dinner.  I could use a laugh today.  I hope you have an enjoyable evening.

    Susan

  • Paula1231
    Paula1231 Member Posts: 456
    edited February 2011

    Hello All!

    I am seeing my Onc today at 4 pm.  I will ask her about the long term side effects of Taxol/Taxotere.  My bone pain is completely gone, but my ribs on the left side hurt every now and then.  My dry mouth seems much improved too.  The only SE's left from the Taxol now is puffy face, baldness, and I still have loose bowels.  It's gross, but the stools are soft and I still have to use baby wipes to stay clean. 

    Woo Hoo TonLee!  Hang in there, you are so close. 

    I am thinking once I get the tamoxiphen, I am going to transfer to my Primary Care MD.  I am so tired on Oncology and I really do not want to go back to the Cancer Center anymore.  Does anyone know what happens next after chemo?  Do we just wait and see?  Do we schedule appointments for scans?  Do we have to see Oncology every six months?  

  • TifJ
    TifJ Member Posts: 1,568
    edited February 2011

    Hi Paula! My onc wants to see me every 3 months for 3 years, then every 6 months after that until 5 years and then will go yearly. Glad to hear the bone pain is gone! I am 8 weeks PFC today and the hair is coming in nicely. Very salt and pepper. I will color as soon as I can!!! I hope you have a good appt. today!

    Tiffany

  • SAMayoFL
    SAMayoFL Member Posts: 958
    edited February 2011

    Paula, believe it or not, I just had an appt. with my onc. yesterday to ask those same questions,  I am not going to have to go through radiation so I only have 4 weeks of treatment left.  I know every oncologist is different but my onc. said that 2 weeks after chemo is over I will have a PET scan.  Then he will see me one week after that, do blood work and go over my scans.  He said for the first two years he will see me every 3 months to do blood work, a tumor marker and the ovarian cancer marker as I am BRCA2+.  I was having a lot of anxiety issues, which I am not prone to, at the thought of ending treatment and what would happen then.  Talking to the onc. yesterday helped to alleviate a lot of those fears.  Also, the onc. said that as soon as chemo ends he is going to do a blood test to determine whether I am pre- or post-menopausal.  If chemo has kicked me into permanent menopause he will put me on Femara, if I am pre-menopausal I will go on Tamoxifen.  I am 45 and have not had a period since I started chemo but was pretty regular before then. 

    Susan

  • TifJ
    TifJ Member Posts: 1,568
    edited February 2011

    Oh, he also said no scans unless I have pain or any other sympton that is not normal lasting more than 2 weeks.

  • Adey
    Adey Member Posts: 3,610
    edited February 2011

    Lago you crack me up.  See you tonight.  7 weeks out and no hair, poo, I don't want to shed taxotears!  Well, I already do because of the clogged tear ducts but I mean the other kind!

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited February 2011

    Adey if it makes you feel better I am now losing my eyelashes. My hair has started to grow but as I mentioned to my BS yesterday, he has more hair than me. Cracked him up too. I don't think he's used to women being so relaxed about the hair loss.

    I don't know how much hair you had to start but I had a ton of hair… really thick. Even my 73 YO mother has her hair thinned. So even though my hair is coming back it's still very sparse. I guess I needed the early start so it would all come in on time.

  • EricaH
    EricaH Member Posts: 41
    edited February 2011

    Aaaaaah!  After only 1 Taxotere treatment the bases of my nails are darkening...  Asked the chemo nurse about ice mitts - she said they don't usually work, but recommended tea tree oil.  I don't have any idea how effective that might be but I'm going to try it and thought I'd share the info.

    I've now lost about half my eyelashes (forget about mascara anyway - it would be Taxoteared off in 5 minutes) but now my eyebrows are going.  I've taken to using Rapid Lash on them (are we supposed to do that?  who knows...)  I tried to fill them in with brown eye pencil but ended up looking like Norma Desmond. 

    Eeeesh - it anything else drops off, falls out or is cut off me I'm going to go berserk!!!

    (Just three more to go, just three more to go, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can (Keep Repeating)

  • tracie23
    tracie23 Member Posts: 598
    edited February 2011
    Erica, You can do it...... I was looking at myself today and I am so far from being cute, pretty, hot, attractive etc.... I truly look like a freak... my face is puffy , my lips look small and no eyelashes or brows... and my hair is growing but it is gray and wispy and strange....I have 4 nails that are dark and peeking and if course they are the thumb and pointer. I kind of look like a deranged clown...Foot in mouth I know we will all get through it I am just sick of it I am sick of people saying "so how are you" " is it gone" I don't fuckin know.... "how do you feel" LOOK AT ME AND YOU TELL ME HOW I FEEL ???????? I am bald, boobless, fat, sad, discouraged, married to a @#^%$**&((*&*...... Sorry I am so negative... I am hungary and I feel so low right now I once again have cried all day. UUUUGGGHHHHH . On a positive note I have a friend coming to take me to dinner. I told her I looked like shit and she told me that would be impossible and she loved me no matter what.... Thank God for her.
  • Adey
    Adey Member Posts: 3,610
    edited February 2011

    Erica-- Usually doesn't work?  That means it sometimes does and it did for me!  I iced my fingers and toes (baggies filled with ice no special mits) and chewed ice or had a smoothie.  My fingers and toes have no discoloration or pain.  I also used tea tree oil that came in a bottle with a brush like fingernail polish on my nails.  L-Glutamine powder twice a day, 3 tsps in water.  No mouth sores or neuropothy.  Just an FYI, do whatever works best for you and good luck!

  • bdavis
    bdavis Member Posts: 6,201
    edited February 2011

    Lago... were you the one who used the gel (Brian Joseph) on your lashes and brows?? And if so, then it didn't work???

  • SAMayoFL
    SAMayoFL Member Posts: 958
    edited February 2011

    Erica and Tracie, I am sitting at my desk, laughing out loud and about to pee in my pants.  The comment about anything else falling off, dropping off or being cut off sent me over the edge.  And Tracie, I so understand wanting to scream when people ask me how am I REALLY doing.  Well, duh!! 

    The signature line on someone's screen name says something like, cancer took my breasts but can't take my sense of humor applies to us all!

    Susan

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited February 2011

    Hi All,

    Erica - I am also in Tampa.  Where are you being treated?  At my onc office they were familiar with icing for Taxotere but I saw a lot of other patients receiving it and not icing.  I used bags of frozen peas and ice in my mouth.  The nurses didn't discourage me and were very cooperative getting my stuff from the freezer, etc. but I didn't get the impression they see a lot of people do it.  I am all about doing everything possible to prevent SE's.  Even though I had ice in my mouth I do have mouth sores after tx#1, but I did have a lot of lemony stuff this last week and I am prone to mouth issues anyway.  I am not that surprised.  I have been painting my nails with hardener as well but read that Tea Tree oil may be a problem for ER+ ?

    Kathie

  • Survivorwoman
    Survivorwoman Member Posts: 620
    edited February 2011

    Paula -it is nice to hear you are feeling better. How many days post chemo are you? You are not alone with your loose bowels, though; I might be having it from taking Tykerb (clinical trial drug), according to my doctor. I really think it is from Taxotere.  But we'll definitely see when my clinical trial drug dosage will be doubled next month. Let's hope loose stool/ diarrhea goes away.

    Tiffany- it is great to know that at 8 weeks post chemo your hair is growing steadily. I think my hair started to grow, too. According to my husband I have stubble on my head. Yay! I am only 2 weeks post chemo. It cannot be, I thought, but I was told it is growing. I really hope so. I am so tired of the hat I have to wear all the time.

    Lago - for stiffness I do a little bit of yoga that seems to help. I thought to let you know.  I was thinking about you today b/c I feel that it helps me a bit afterwards. I do restorative yoga. It is very gentle.

  • Survivorwoman
    Survivorwoman Member Posts: 620
    edited February 2011

    Tracie - I hope you are feeling better after your friend takes you out to dinner. I wish I had friends like that. And I I know how you feel. Two weeks ago I was a total wreck. I am still, to a degree, but I am a bit calmer and less angry. I think Taxotere made me real angry. But maybe, because today is my birthday and I can actually say, I have lived to be 43, I am feeling a lot better. I hope life gets better for all of us. It must. I am hopeful.

  • lago
    lago Member Posts: 17,186
    edited February 2011

    No I didnt' use the gel. Yes I do need to get back to my stretching exercises. I'm starting to loosen up a bit.

  • Omaz
    Omaz Member Posts: 5,497
    edited February 2011

    erickaH - Here is a good article about icing the nails that you could show to your nurse

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994152

  • shooshoo23
    shooshoo23 Member Posts: 96
    edited February 2011

    Oh Tracie, hon, I for one appreciate your negativity! You say everything I am thinking! I wish Houston and Dallas were closer, I think we would get along great! Hang in there girl, I'll be praying for you!

  • tracie23
    tracie23 Member Posts: 598
    edited February 2011

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY SURVIVORWOMAN!!!!!! I am going Mexican tonight... anything you would like me to eat for you?

  • coni111852
    coni111852 Member Posts: 419
    edited February 2011

    Happy birthday survivorwoman!!!

    I so agree with u ladies so sick and tired ppl asking how I'm doing when I mean look at me I'm bald, achy all the time, eye brows thinning and eyelashes, my breast will be going as well...I also get well it's just two more, it's so easy for everyone to say it, I'm the one having to go through the SE!!

    I don't know why all I've been doing is crying, for eveything, I hate to think I'll be like this for my bday! In the positive side I think might be getting a puppy!!! I'm excited....

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