New type of LE Garment

SleeveNinja · February 2011

Dawne - Wow, truly, my forearms and wrists are really skinny - yours must be teeny. The Armcare might be okay for you though -- it doesn't have the cuff, the fabric is sleeker, the fit is tighter.

I'm so bummed on your behalf! Frown Have you spoken to Sue at TLSCo? She might have some thoughts. Smile

Estel · February 2011

SleeveNinja - Thank you! I emailed her to ask for instructions on how to return it. I haven't looked at the other sleeves. I'll do so. Thanks again for all your help!

KS1 · February 2011

SleeveNinja, you are definitely a sleeve ninja. Your suggestion that the bilateral sleeve might be too big on me is right on the money. The upper arm fits correctly, but the forearm part of the sleeve ia loose above the cuff like in Dawne-Hope's picture. Solidea should consider making an extra small. KS

SleeveNinja · February 2011

KS - Aww, I'm so disappointed too! Solidea is interested in feedback and they seem to be working on new things - I think Sue told me they are working smaller sizes. (I'd like to see the Wave in higher compression myself.) Reminder to all: the Wave isn't really meant to be a LE sleeve. The Armcare is. Armcare has a sleeker, more precise, kind of feel and fit. It also runs smaller. I wear small in the Wave and medium in the Armcare - so the small Armcare might fit you and Dawne better than the small Wave. (My measurements actually fall into the small -- but the small was too small for me.) Anyway, you have an idea of how comfy the upper arm/ shoulder part is.

I could try to post pics of how my sleeves fit if that would be helpful. I'm visiting family for the week and my sister in law will be around w her i-phone in a few days . . . Undecided

upcreek · February 2011

thank you for this new option. I have sleeves and the compression is too high for prevention but I can't get anything lower. The wave now gives me that option. How did you arrive at the correct size?

SleeveNinja · February 2011

The Arcare also comes in a very light compression 15-20 mmHg (same as the bilateral) Jobst makes a sleeve in that class as well (http://www.compressionstockings.com/jobst-ready-to-wear-1520-mmhg-compression-arm-sleeve-with-silicone-band-p-82.html) Check size charts.

upcreek · February 2011

thank you

KS1 · February 2011

Thanks SleeveNinja. I'd like to give lower compression a try. How does the fabric of the Armcare class 1 compare to the Jobst 15/20? Has anyone tried the Jobst 15/20? I've not had great experience with Jobst. My first sleeves and gauntlets were class 2 Jobst (off-shelf, then custom), and I couldn't tolerate them, but maybe that was because they were class 2. (It's weird that my first LE tx skipped bandaging, but put me in class 2 compression for mild LE.). Later on, I had a custom class 1 jobst glove (elvarex), but the fabric was rough and abraded my skin. I like my class 1 Juzo soft 2001 sleeve. I know Juzo makes 15/20 compression stockings and knee highs. Does anyone know if Juzo make a 15/20 sleeve? KS1

upcreek · February 2011

sleeveninja: I just need the sleeve prophylactically. Do you think the Armcare would be a better choice than the Wave?

SleeveNinja · February 2011

I had the Jobst sleeve many yrs ago -before LE- and it was fine. I also currently have a Jobst gauntlet that's nice (soft fabric, comfy thumb). Since LE, I can't tolerate a top band so I only wear the over the shoulder sleeves. I wish I could wear a sleeve with the top band sometimes just because it's easier to slip it on and off without having to take your shirt off, some clothing fabrics cling a little to the shoulders/ back band, and (most of all) I'd like to have my healthy arm totally free. (Minor points compared to the burning pain I get with a top band.)

KS- In my opinion the Armcare fabric and Jobst fabric are less different in the very light compression than in the class 2. In the heavier compression, I much prefer the Armcare fabric. I also think the Armcare is beautifully made.

upcreek - think about if you want both your arms to be covered (nice in winter, less so in summer.) Judging from the posts above, if you are petite or have especially thin arms, the Wave may run too large. Overall, I think the Armcare would feel like a "lighter," less obtrusive, garment.

Nordy · February 2011

I have found with the jobst that I have to wear the it WITHOUT the silicone top band or it will cause fluid to pool below it. I do like my jobst sleeves, but without the silcone band they do have a tendency to slip down a little. If that is an issue for you, you could use the glue that they sell specifically for that. I think they may sell some on lymphediva's website? I LOVE the Wave though! I am thinking of trying the armcare for longer bike rides, however, because I think my arm needs just a bit more support when they are dendent for that long.

upcreek · February 2011

sleeveninja: thanks. I need both it for both arms.

cookiegal · February 2011

the silver wave has really worked for me....I have three, I've been improving slowly.

o2bhealthy · February 2011

Has anyone notice the cream silver wave fitting looser then the black??? I am wondering if I should go from medium to small. The medium fits well in the forearm but does not seem to fit snug enough in the axillary/bicep area...

Estel · February 2011

o2bhealthy - I talked with (is it Amy?) from Lymphedema sleeves about returning my silver wave that was too big. She said that the older ones were smaller than the newest manufactured ones ... would I want to try one of those? I said yes.

So ... I wonder if you got some of the newer batch. You might want to call and ask.

o2bhealthy · February 2011

Thanks Dawne-Hope I really liked the first one I ordered almost a year ago but I found the newer ones are a bit looser - I'll call tomorrow to see about swapping for a smaller size. Thank you for the feed back.

LindaLou53 · February 2011

Well I have had my Class 2 ArmCare Medium sleeve for just over a week now and thought I should report back with my preliminary impressions. First off, dealing with Sue over the phone was a delight. She was very helpful, informative and sincere in helping me find the best garment for me. The garment arrived in about 3-4 days after my order. I took some pics of the box and instructional materials that came along with the sleeve. When I get a chance I will try to take pics of me actually wearing it if that helps others to see how it fits.

Here are my initial feelings about the ArmCare sleeve:

1. At first touch, the garment is extremely soft and stretchy. It reminded me a little of stretch support panty hose in the feel. I was cautious about my rough winter dry hands for fear I might "catch" in places and cause a snag in the material. I made sure to wear my LE donning gloves when handling the sleeve.

2. Applying the sleeve after reading instructions was not difficult although the first time I put it on I thought the patch area at the antecubital was supposed to cover the outside of the elbow as reinforcement, then realized it was intended as a protective layer for the inside of the elbow area.

3. I did not need to worry about the sleeve not fitting my long arms because it stretched very well to completely cover my shoulders and still stayed in place with the wrist cuff on my left arm.

4. It took me 2 attempts to apply the sleeve so that the dorsal support band properly fit across my shoulder blades and below my neck. But I got the hang of it pretty quickly.

5. The short non-compressive sleeve on my right arm surprised me that it came almost down to my elbow, I was expecting a much shorter sleeve but it fully covered my upper arm. I felt the band at the end of the short sleeve was a little snug for my liking though. Not sure how they calculate circumferences on the non-compressive side.

6. As far as wearability and comfort the ArmCare was extremely comfortable, light, airy and hardly felt like I was wearing a sleeve at all. I did of course need to wear my standard Mediven 550 CCL2 Glove which I overlapped on top the ArmCare sleeve. My glove extends halfway up my forearm towards my elbow. I normally wear my glove underneath my Mediven sleeve but with the cuff on the end of the ArmCare I felt it would be better to wear my glove on the outside. I had to finesse pulling on the glove without causing the cuff of the ArmCare to roll down but found a way to make that work more consistently. I may try putting my glove on first at some point and see if the sleeve fits over top well.

7. I have worn the ArmCare for 3 total days alternating between my Medi sleeve every other day. As far as comfort the ArmCare gets 5 stars. Ease of application is slightly trickier than a standard sleeve and glove but with a little practice I would say it rates 4.5 stars. In spite of me feeling like the fabric was fairly fragile and at risk for snagging easily, I did not run into any major problems while wearing the garment or when readjusting it while on. The fabric appears to be more hardy than at first glance.

There were only a couple of areas of concern, but one of them is a big one and will take more time before I can make a final judgement regarding the efficacy of the ArmCare for me specifically.

1. I did notice after wearing the ArmCare for several hours that there was a tendency for the garment to slip halfway off my shoulders on both sides. Whether this is a factor of my arm length and the fabric gradually moving back over time to a state of less stretch I don't know. I would just tug on both sides and reposition the garment back over the top of my shoulders where it would stay for awhile before sliding down again.

2. The only areas I noted any irritation at all were on my right unaffected arm where the material had a tendency to be a little snug in my axilla right under the arm pit and also the band at the end of the non-compressive sleeve. It was not constrictive enough to cause indentations, redness or severe discomfort, just a mild sense of irritation in those spots. Given that the garment comes in "standard" sizes and is not custom fit it is understandable that each individual's unique arm dimensions may not totally fit the full range of each size available. My left LE arm was extremely comfortable though...seemed strange that my right arm was experiencing the minor irritations.

3. For me the most significant question is does the CCL2 ArmCare sleeve effectively maintain proper compression and containment of my LE arm. That is a question I cannot answer with any authority without more specific clinical data. My subjective sense was that after wearing the ArmCare for a full day I felt that my left upper LE arm might be a little "fuller" but I do not have the measurements to back that up. My plan is to start keeping a twice a day record of the circumference of my upper arm in 2 or 3 places. I want to measure in the mornings after removing my JoviPak and then measure again in the evenings after removing my daytime garment. I will continue to wear both my Mediven and alternating with the ArmCare for now until I can determine if my arm is in a stable pattern. If it is, I will extend my wearing of the ArmCare to 2 days in a row and watch closely to see if there is any significant change in my arm circumference. Obviously, other activities I do during the day may have any impact in addtion, so I will try to keep track of the variables. I will be seeing my CLT therapist every 2 weeks and will get her input as to the tissue consistency and presentation of my arm also. So it will be my own mini experiment.

All in all I am very happy with the wearability and comfort of the ArmCare. If it can successfully maintain my LE during the day then it will be a welcome change and alternate garment option for me to wear. I will keep you all updated after a month or so of testing.

kira66715 · February 2011

Linda--Amazing as always.

I had raised this question to both Binney and the head medi rep: when European CCL measurements vary from US, do you go by the absolute compression in mm mercury: in which case CCL2 European=CCL1 US, or does the quality of the fabric make the CCL more accurate than the mm mercury of compression? And, I still don't fully understand the answer.

The medi rep told me that any garment manufactured in Europe has to abide by their standards, but that types of fabric will vary and cause different compressions.

So, with the armcare being a "light" fabric, and the CCL2 is 23/32 mm, which is equivalent to CCL1 in US terms, is this sleeve less compression than your custom medi--which as it's made in Europe, is it also 23/32 mm?

Your post is wonderful in its thoroughness, thoughtfullness and general helpfulness.

Kira

BoobsinaBox · February 2011

Linda,

I second Kira's assessment of your post. Thanks again!

Dawn

SleeveNinja · February 2011

LindaLou - awesome post !!!!

I've been wearing the Armcare since April 2010. I have long arms, my swellling is elbow-axilla (and trunk). I need to wear compression 24/7 and I feel best with heavy compression. I was wearing a combo of custom Juzo Healastic CCL 2 & a wrapped Solaris Tribute for daytime prior to getting the Armcare. (I couldn't tolerate a sleeve with a top band (too painful) so I'd been wearing my Tribute (bandaged) day & night for over a year.) Here's my experience w some of the issues you mention:

For whatever reason, donning the Armcare was intuitive for me. I find it much easier to don than regular ready-made sleeves (I was always punching myself in the jaw!) and much, much easier than my a custom. I usually use a rubber glove on my other hand to adjust the elbow a little after the sleeve is on. I love the elbow patch. I got a large burning red lump at my elbow crease from other sleeves and I don't with this sleeve.

I thought the fabric was delicate when I first got the sleeve but I find it is very durable. It resists pilling far longer than other sleeves I've tried; it never stretches out; the compression has yet to "fatigue." (This is particularly idiosyncratic and not something you mentioned: my LE arm is hypersensitive to cold - anything below 65 degrees starts to burn and the colder the temp., the more it burns. Circular knit sleeves intensify the feeling but the Solidea sleeves improve it. ???)

I wear the shoulders kind of lowish (lower than the photos on the box.) I just put them where they feel comfortable and they stay - I never have to adjust the Armcare once it's on. I find some clothing fabrics want to "cling" to the shoulders (a long sleeve cotton knit for example or winter static) so that I adjust the clothing sleeves occasionally.

I also find the short sleeve side a bit snug. As in, by afternoon I notice it -which I'd rather not do- and it can feel mildly annoying in hot weather. I experiemented with my oldest sleeve. Using regular scissors, I cut the "curve" around the front axilla opening to make it larger and I also cut the bottom of the short sleeve off. After cutting, the axilla curve is more open (tho. not as pretty) and the end of the sleeve rolls up. Sometimes I roll it up so I just have the thinnest circle of fabric as an anchor. I can't say the cut garment feels better than the intact garment - but it feels good just to have a change.

I found the Armcare comfortable from the moment I first put it on but I was dubtful about the compression. I assumed it was too light, too fragile, too comfortable (!) etc. to be effective for long-term use. I figured it would be great for occassional use. Au contraire. After about 4 cautious half days, I said to hell with my custom sleeve and I have never looked back. I wear the Armcare everyday (except when I wear the Wave - which is not quite enough compression for me for everyday.) I don't understand the compression numbers after a point. I just know what feels supportive when it's on me and what controls my swelling over time. So far, the Armcare does both for me. ???: It seems to me compression measurements (like size measurements) are somewhat arbitrary and imprecise anyway - I've never understood how one sleeve can provide the same compression on different size arms. In the end, all we have to go by is what actually works or doesn't work.

I only wear hand compression occasionally. Sometimes I wear my glove or gauntlet tucked in, sometimes out - either way is fine for me. BTW, the wrist of the Armcare looks like it might be bulky but it isn't.

Sue is great - I met her at an airport luggage check-in counter of all places. She was wearing an Armcare and I was wearing a bandaged Tribute and we both did a, "Lymphedema??!!" double-take. We ended up talking nonstop about our LE "journeys" for the next 3 hours and I ordered a sleeve from her the next day.

I look forward to hearing your test results! I hope it's as good for you as it is for me.

LindaLou53 · March 2011

I want everyone to know that Sue Callison from Lymphedema Sleeve Company is AMAZING! I don't think I have ever spoken with a company owner more tuned into their customer's satisfaction and so motivated to ensure that their product is effective and practical for its intended use.

I received a phone call from Sue today, informing me that she had just been made aware of a production issue with their most recent shipment of the CCL2 ARMCARE SIZE MEDIUM in CAMEL COLOR. This is currently the only garment in their product line affected by this manufacturing issue in Italy.

Sue is right on top of the problem and notifying patients who have recently ordered this specific garment. She gave me permission to post this just as a "heads up" for anyone who may have a CCL2 ARMCARE SIZE MEDIUM in CAMEL COLOR purchased AFTER JAN 2011. You may want to email Sue at Sue@LymphedemaSleeveCo.com or give them a call at 1-888-841-8834 if you have this garment.

I am totally impressed with Sue's dedication to maintaining the high quality standard of her product and her sincere desire to serve the Lymphedema community the best way she can. Being a breast cancer survivor and LE patient herself, she really "gets it"!

cookiegal · March 2011

I agree that the beige silverwave is loser and not as compressive as the black. Not quite sure why. I am mostly wearing my black one.

Binney4 · March 2011

Awhile back I posted a question about black garments, to see if anyone had the same experience I've had. Over several years, and with several different companies, I always find my black garments are tighter than the others. I asked my fitter about it and she said when she fits bras she often has to go down a size for black ones, and that she's seen the same thing with LE garments. It's also true of my compression camis -- the black is tighter.

What is with that?!!! Undecided
Binney

cookiegal · March 2011

Perhaps the black dye shrinks? But the fit is markedly different, the cuff looks wrinkly after a few hours on the beige.

cookiegal · March 2011

So I wondered what the effect was on my healthy arm of wearing the bilat sleeve. My upper arm was down 2cm my lower was up a fraction.

However I have lost some weight and hurt my lower arm so who knows>

SleeveNinja · March 2011

OMG - I have always noticed that black fabric of any kind almost always feels tighter, heavier, and stiffer than the same fabric in any other color!

(All my Waves are the pale ones and my Arcares are the black ones so I will have to experiment.)

toomuch · March 2011

I ordered both the armcare and wave sleeve. I love wearing a sleeve without the band on my upper arm. I find that my arm even seems thinner when I take the armcare sleeve off. I have to return my wave sleeve, as it is too large at the wrist. I purchased it in champagne. After reading this thread about the differences between colors, I am going to exchange it for a black sleeve and hope that it fit.

I never would have discovered these sleeves without this thread. So thank you!

cookiegal · March 2011

The down side of the bi-lat is I have an ache in my elbow of my healthy right side that I use the mouse with at work. I wonder if the sleeve is adding resistance I do not need.

SoGr8fl · March 2011

Thank you for the info on the LE sleeve! After reading all the comments/reviews I decided to purchase the Arm Care in black. Does anyone have tips on gloves/gauntlets? I purchased an inexpensive one from a pharmacy but after wearing and washing for a week it looks a pretty tattered.

Binney4 · March 2011

Cookie, that's interesting about your unaffected elbow being achy from the sleeve. Can you adjust the fabric around the elbow area so it has more "give" there?

Okay, being a person for whom "less is more" where compression is concerned, I tried the SilverWave (in black -- lovely!) It is not sold as a compression sleeve for lymphedema, and that's wise, because it has a couple of design features that make it risky for LE use. The wrist area is long and tight, with a "gathered" effect above the cuff. It's beautiful and graceful styling, and I love it, but it leaves the area directly above the cuff completely uncompressed and open to collecting fluid. Frown My gloves are made with very long cuffs, but not long enough to cover the uncompressed area.

So I tried taking several tucks around the sleeve above the cuff to tighten it up. Works fairly well, but it's far from ideal and of course it didn't do anything good for the graceful style <sigh!> Undecided

On the other hand, the fabric is so comfortable I don't even want to take it off. And the way the top of the sleeve goes around to my back and has no band around my upper arm does great things for my chest LE, which is aggravated by tightness in the underarm or upper arm.

So I'm warily using it only occasionally, when I need some comfort and a break from the freakin' compression garments. Like the rest of you I would LOVE a long-sleeved T made out of this stuff, with a drop-shoulder so the seam doesn't catch me right in the axilla, y'know?

LindaLou, I do appreciate your comments about the ArmCare band on the opposite arm. Since my LE is bilateral that would be a complete no-no for me <another sigh!>

For now I'll just have to keep on fantasizing about the perfect LE compression garment for bilateral arm and chest LE, and in the meantime I'll be cheering for those of you who are able to use and enjoy these beautiful garments.

Be well!
Binney

New type of LE Garment

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