should I continue chemo

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I am trying to decide should I continue chemo. I've had my first infusion of TC and had very extreme SE's. I spent several days in the hospital with a breast infection caused by radiation recall which was caused by the chemo. My BS feels my SE's were bad enough I should consider stopping the chemo. He feels he got wide margins, no node involvmemnt, no blood suppy to the tumor ect. My oncotype score was 24 which gave me a 16% chance of it coming back. Having chemo gave me an additional 3%. He feels life style changes and food choices can give me that additional without the pain I have been going through.

At this time I will be talking to the Onch. and unless she can give me some very convincing reasons to continue, can garantee I will not have any more infections I am leaning away from the chemo.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Karen

Comments

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited September 2010

    could you switch to different drugs? did you have a neulasta shot?

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited September 2010

    I would put more weight on what your onc says than your BC.  She may have suggestions for ameliorating the side effects.  Also since you are a candidate for hormonals you could consider that to be your adjuvant treatment rather than chemo.

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    ruthbru, yes I had the newlasta shot. My SE were kinda unusual. I ended up with radiation recall which caused an infection in my breast. My BS is worried the infection will return because of my weakend immune system.  I just spent the last 3 weeks trying to clear it up plus I had 2nd degree burns from the radiation recall to the breast.

    Member_of_the_club, I was already going to do the hormonals, the chemo was just to give me a 3% additional help. I can ask the Onc if they could change what I am getting, but that doesn't address the chance of getting the infection back. I was on oral antibiotics for 2 weeks, and IV antibiotics for 1 week, and it's still not completely cleared up.

    I was already told by the BS 2 more weeks before he would even consider releasing me to recieve any more chemo. I am 5 days late already.

    Karen

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited September 2010

    Hi, Karen ~ Do you absolutely totally trust your onc, or would a 2nd opinion help?  I know there are lighter chemo regimens, such as CMF, or substituting Abraxane (sp?; the preservative-free version) for the Taxotere, but I have no idea if either would address your problem and also be appropriate alternatives.  Like you, I would question where the balance is -- if you lower your risk of recurrence by 3%, yet significantly increase your risk of other stresses on your body that drain your immune system, then where's the net benefit?  If I was in your situation, I might be inclined to consult with another onc or two, just to be sure I get the thinking of more than one doctor who has seen this kind of situation, and to be sure all the possible options are examined.   Deanna

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    Deanna, It's funny because I really don't like my Onc at all. One thing that troubles me is she is only checking my cbc levels. The other thing is she has been very unwilling to work with my BS. While in the hospital my BS ran a complete blood work up. My potassium level was dangerously low, and I was given potassium immediatley. All my electrolytes were off but they came up to a normal level after 4 bags of saylene solution were put into me in the hospital.

    If I am correct CMF is hard on the heart. That is why it wasn't considered. My heart is ok but I have a brother who had a very massive heart attack at age 50. I have never heard of Abraxane, but will check into it.

    As you say there are many questions I have, and the next 2 weeks will give me some time to do some research. I have to wait 2 weeks before the BS will even consider releasing me for more chemo, that's how bad the infection is.

    Karen

  • mollyann
    mollyann Member Posts: 472
    edited September 2010

    Kira, I'm so sorry you have to go through this. With only a 3% chance of improved odds with chemo, and your medical history, it's clear you have a higher risk of dying of infection in the hospital than you do of cancer. Your doctor could probably sued by your family if he recommended more chemo and you died of infection.

    Infection is serious business. Sometimes they can't identify the infection fast enough to treat it and the kidneys shut down before they know if it's viral or bacterial or fungal. This happened with my friend. We kept asking, what is the infection? And they couldn't fiqure it out.

    Kira, sometimes the universe has a way of guiding you in the right direction. You will find your path.

    Sending you prayers...

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited September 2010

    My point was that if you choose to stop chemo, you are getting systemic treatment with your hormonals, so its not as if you are abandoning treatment altogether.

     Also you need a new onc, or at least a second opinion.  She just doesn't sound like she's earned your trust. 

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited September 2010

    Oh, that's never a good sign -- a doctor who won't work with another doctor.  And as far as only running your CBCs, I think that's very typical.  Oncs tend to want to administer chemo and hormonal drugs, then turn us over to other doc(s), if necessary, to deal with any collateral damage.  I remember being unable to talk my local onc into checking my cholesterol, even though one of his nurses had observed something visually concerning about my blood.  I offered to pay for that test myself, and he still gave me all kinds of excuses for not ordering it. IMO, they just don't want to know -- maybe because of perceived liability issues?

    Karen, I haven't heard that CMF is hard on the heart, but I don't know.  Adriamycin can be, but I thought CMF was so gentle that you don't lose your hair, but I have no idea of how its effectiveness compares to other chemos.  All I know about Abraxane is that it's sometimes given to women who cannot tolerate Taxotere.  I believe it's the same drug as Taxotere, but without some preservative that seems to be the culprit in some adverse reactions.  Because of this, it's several times (maybe 3x I think) more expensive than Taxotere, so insurance companies don't like to pay for it.  But I think these may all be moot subtletes in your case.  Mollyann's points make a lot of sense.

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    Mollyann, You make alot of sense. The infection is my main concern. You stated it much better than I.  I was treated with a broad spectrum antobiotic because the BS didn't know what I had. I only found out what it was when I was being sent home.

    dlb823, I will ask her about CMF, I may be wrong it might have been one of the other ones.  I agree it's never good when one Dr. won't work with another. My problem is I live in a small town, and the  cancer center conected with moffit is the one she works with. Part of the problem is she feels since my tumor was so small and early any surgeon could handle it. In this area there are no breast surgeons. I would love to talk to another Onc. at this center, but I'm afraid that would be stepping on toes.

    Anyway you all have given me much to think about. And as member_of_the_club said if I decide to go straight to the pills it's not like I'm just abandoing care.

    Karen

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited September 2010

    Step on toes.  Seriously, your health is more important than somebody's feelings.

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited September 2010

    I'm with MOTC. Come up to St Pete and the St Anthony Breast Center for a 2nd opinion. They are really good and from Punta Gorda, about an hour and a half away (an hour and 10 the way I drive). Call Gulf Coast Oncology and see if you can get a consult. Love them. (727) 821-0017

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    Barbara, Thanks I will give them a call in the morning. I didn't realize they were that close. You're right I really need to start stepping on toes. Will let you know what they say.

    Thanks, Karen

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited September 2010

    Karen-I PMd you.

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited September 2010

    Also, do you have a good family physican, who could help you nagivate all this and/or write you an out of network referral (if that would be a problem for you). You need to be with doctors who are working together FOR you; step on as many toes as you need to.... this is all about YOU!!!! Best of Luck! Ruth

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    Ruth, I am going to call the BS in the morning. He will give me an Onc. who will work with me up in Tampa. As he said I am not against chemo, but I need someone who will work with him the radiologist to do what is best for me. I am also going to call Barbara's  Gulf Coast Oncology to see if I can get in to see them asap. This has gone on way to long. She has fought the BS in every way she can. Today she was asked to call me to talk about what is going on, well I am still waiting for the call I was told she would give me.

    Karen

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited September 2010

    Good for you for searching out someone who will work WITH you.  No matter what treatment options you end up going with, you will feel better when you know that they have looked at your unique situation and at you as a whole person, not just a statistic. Let us know how it goes. Ruth

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    Well I finally got a call fron the Onc. She is saying I very likely would get the radiation recall again, which provided the enviroment to allow the infection to grow.. She said get the report the infection is taken care of from the BS in 2 weeks, then make an appointment to decide where to go from here. As she said more chemo ups the chance of morbidity. Well, that says it all to me. So it looks like onto pills I will be going.

    Karen

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited September 2010

    I am on Arimidex and have had no problems with it. Best of luck! Ruth

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    Thanks Ruth. I'm also going to mosey on over to the alternative treatment site. I think there are many things I should be looking at such as vitamin D levels, and thyroid. I have had to take synthroid for about 5 years now. I sometimes wonder about that and the fact I was diagnosed with extreme exema at the same time and am on steroids for the exema.

    Karen

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited September 2010

    Hi karen, sorry to hear you've had such a rough time with chemo.  I don't know what radiation recall is, but just chemo by itself without complications is plenty enough to handle.  I just wanted to chime in with a suggestion that you consider a broader scope in considering your treatment options.  I live in a sizeable city, but small town mentality is alive and well here.  I travelled to New Orleans for my surgery, and boy howdy, leaving town for surgery was the best medical decision I made that year of treatments.  The logisitics might seem insurmountable, but if seeking more options further from home are the right choice for you, your heart will let you know which is the best choice.  ...that was my experience anyway.  Best of luck to you.  

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited September 2010

    althea,

    Radiation recall is basically the chemo caused a second radiation reaction to the breast. In my case I had internal radiation, so it was burning from the inside out. It caused my breast to break open and allow an infection in the breast which they are still trying to control. I have 2nd degree burns on the area they radiated.

    At this point all the Dr.'s involved in my case agree It would not be wise for me to have any more chemo. Yes I live in a small town, but I had surgery and radiation at moffit in TAmpa. The only local Dr. I have is the onc. who was doing the chemo. I don't like her, and she has not been on board as I feel she should be, so I now am set up for with a meeting with an och. in Tampa.

    Thanks for the advise, it is greatly appreciated, and as you can see I have been getting lots of help from people with much more knowledge than I have.

    Karen

  • MommySpring
    MommySpring Member Posts: 3
    edited February 2011

    Kira,

     I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I must tell you the truth, Chemo wil never cure you! Chemotherapy drugs work by killing cancer cells. Unfortunately, they also kill healthy normal cells and depress the immune system-making the recipient more susceptible to various infectious diseases like pneumonia. Side effects include hair loss, fatigue, weight loss, mouth sores, nausea, vomiting, easy bruising, bone marrow suppression and heart muscle damage. Not all chemotherapy is the same; some types offer fewer side effects than others. Due to the harmful effects of chemotherapy on the immune system, secondary tumors can occur up to 25 times more often than the expected rate. A disturbing fact about chemotherapy is that the majority of specialists who prescribe such drugs would refuse to take them if they or their families had cancer themselves. According to one survey published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology in 1987, 81 percent of cancer specialists would not consent to a drug trial due to the ineffectiveness of chemotherapy and its unacceptable degree of toxicity.

  • thenewme
    thenewme Member Posts: 1,611
    edited February 2011

    Hi MommySpring,

    I wonder if you realize this thread is months old, so the original poster is likely to have finished chemo (or not) long ago.  Wink

    Usually when posting opinions about cancer treatment, it's helpful to add some sources- especially when you're presenting them as facts.  In this case, it seems that you may have mixed up some of your facts.

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited February 2011

    MommySpring has shown up with several posts with absurd claims about cancer.  Not sure she's had cancer herself.  Let's just ignore teh troll.

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited February 2011

    Of course, kira is probably done making her difficult choices by now. Hopefully, she will have chosen the very wise advice of seeking a second/third oncologist's opinion; it is so hard to decide, when doctors have such differences of opinion among themselves.

    I, for one, dropped off chemo 5 years ago (2006) after 5 out of 6 rounds, when it was established (by the medical community) that there is basically no benefit in chemotherapy for ER+, PR+, HER- tumors like mine (meanwhile, they have been loading everybody with chemo for the past 20 years).

    I am currently feeling healthier than I did when I was 25 years old, after turning around my diet 380 degrees, and adding well-researched supplements to it. I have found valuable information about diet, nutrition, and natural cancer treatments on this very board, over the years. 

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited February 2011

    Hi all I'm the person who started the thread months ago. Yes I did stop chemo on the advice of my Onc. I spent 4 months just healing up and getting my health back due to that one treatment. i was told if I did have more it would more than likely kill me.

    My situation is very unusual, and I would never have stopped the treatments other wise.

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