What are the questions that you should have asked your doctor?
Dear all,
As I am doing my research on what surgery I should do (Unilateral MX, bilateral MX, or lumpectomy), could anyone with similar diagnosis and experience tell me what are the kinds of questions that you wish that you have asked your breast surgeon before you decide on your surgery?
I am going to meet with my new breast surgeon (I transferred from my inital breast surgeon to Beth Israel in Boston) in next week. And I'd like to be prepared but sometime it could be difficult to know what important questions to ask before derive a decision.
Thanks for your help!
Bella
Comments
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Bella, what I have here is not a list of questions for your surgeon, but a list of considerations for you as you are making your surgical choice between a lumpectomy, mastectomy and bilateral mastectomy. I've posted this quite a few times before and some women have gone through the list and decided to have a lumpectomy, others have chosen a single mastectomy and others have opted for a bilateral mastectomy. So the purpose is simply to help you figure out what's right for you - both in the short term but more importantly, over the long term. As you go through the list and think about how you feel, you probably will come up with some questions to ask your surgeon about. Hope it helps!
- Do you want to avoid radiation? If your cancer isn't near the chest wall and if your nodes are clear, then it may be possible to avoid radiation if you have a mastectomy. This is a big selling point for many women who choose to have mastectomies. However you should be aware that there is no guarantee that radiation may not be necessary even if you have a mastectomy, if some cancer cells are found near the chest wall, or if it's discovered that you have invasive cancer in addition to the DCIS and the area of invasive cancer is very large and/or if it turns out that you are node positive. Keep in mind as well that sometimes women who have lumpectomies for DCIS (particularly smaller amounts or lower grade) may be able to avoid radiation if they have large post-lumpectomy margins (10mm+).
- Do you want to avoid hormone therapy? If you are ER positive, you are almost certain to be prescribed Tamoxifen if you have a lumpectomy. Tamoxifen may be recommended if you have a single mastectomy but it will be optional (the benefit will be protection of your remaining breast). Tamoxifen will not be necessary if you have a bilateral mastectomy, assuming that your final diagnosis remains pure DCIS (i.e. with no invasive cancer). Tamoxifen reduces the risk of distant recurrence (i.e. mets) in addition to lowering the risk of local recurrence which is why it is often still recommended for those who have invasive cancer, even if they have a bilateral mastectomy. But distant recurrence is not a concern for those who have pure DCIS; only local recurrence is a concern.
- Does the length of the surgery and the length of the recovery period matter to you? For most women, a lumpectomy is a relatively easy surgery and recovery. After a lumpectomy, radiation usually is given for 6 weeks. A mastectomy is a longer, more complex surgery and the recovery period is longer. How do you feel about going through a longer surgery and a longer, more restricted recovery period?
- Do you plan to have reconstruction? If so, be aware that reconstruction, even "immediate" reconstruction, is usually a long process - many months - and most often requires more than one surgery. Some women have little discomfort during the reconstruction process but other women find the process to be very difficult - there is no way to know until you are going through it. Are you prepared for this?
- How will you deal with possible complications with reconstruction? Some lucky women breeze through reconstruction but unfortunately, many have complications. These may be short-term and/or fixable or they may be long-term and difficult to fix. Common problems include ripples and indentations and unevenness. You may have lingering side effects (muscle pain, spasms, itching, etc.) on one side or both. If you don't end up with symmetry (symmetry is not a sure thing by any means, even if you have a bilateral mastectomy and have reconstruction done on both sides at the same time), will you regret the decision to remove your breasts or your healthy breast? Are you prepared for the possibility of revision surgery?
- How you do feel about your body image and how will this be affected by a mastectomy? Reconstructed breasts usually looks fine in clothing but may not appear natural when naked. They may not feel natural or move naturally, particularly if you have implant reconstruction.
- How do you feel about losing the natural feeling in your breast and your nipple? Are your nipples important to you sexually? A mastectomy will change your body for the rest of your life. Are you prepared for that? Keep in mind as well that even if you have a nipple sparing mastectomy, except in rare cases (and except with a new untested reconstruction procedure) the most feeling that can be retained in your nipples is about 20% - the nerves that affect 80% of nipple sensation are by necessity cut during the surgery and cannot be reconnected. Any breast/nipple feeling you regain will be surface feeling only (or phantom sensations, which are actually quite common); there will be no feeling inside your breast, instead your breast will feel numb. For some, loss of breast/nipple sensation is a small price to pay; for others, it's a huge negative.
- How will you deal emotionally with the loss of your breast(s)? Some women are glad that their breast(s) is gone because it was the source of the cancer, but others become angry that cancer forced them to lose their breast(s). How do you think you will feel? Don't just consider how you feel now, as you are facing the breast cancer diagnosis, but try to think about how you will feel in a year and in a few years, once this diagnosis, and the fear, is well behind you. As you read this board, something that's very important to keep in mind is that almost all women are thrilled with their decision to have a mastectomy or bilateral when it's first done - they are relieved that the cancer is gone and the surgery is over and in most cases it wasn't as bad as they feared. The real impact of the loss of our breasts doesn't hit most of us until months or even years later.
- Will removal of your breast(s) help you move on from having had cancer or will it hamper your ability to move on? Will you feel that the cancer is gone because your breast(s) is gone? Or will the loss of your breast(s) be a constant reminder that you had breast cancer?
- Appearance issues aside, before making this decision you should find out what your doctors estimate your recurrence risk will be if you have a lumpectomy and radiation. Is this risk level one that you can live with or one that scares you? Will you live in constant fear or will you be satisfied that you've reduced your risk sufficiently and not worry about it except when you have your 6 mth or annual screenings? If you will always worry, then having a mastectomy might be a better option. Be aware however that a mastectomy doesn't totally eliminate your risk of local recurrence (i.e. in the breast area) and, should any invasive cancer be discovered, a mastectomy has no impact whatsoever on your risk of distant recurrence (i.e. mets). Keep in mind too that worriers are worriers. I've noticed that some of the women here who worry the most are those who've had bilaterals. They had the surgery to reduce their worry but someone who is prone to worry is going to find something to worry about and the fact is that after a breast cancer diagnosis, there always is something to worry about.
- Do you know your risk to get BC in your other (the non-cancer) breast? Is this a risk level that scares you? Or is this a risk level that you can live with? Keep in mind that breast cancer does not recur in the contralateral breast so your current diagnosis does not affect your other breast. However, anyone who's been diagnosed with BC one time is at higher risk to be diagnosed again and this may be compounded if you have other risk factors. Do yourself a favor and find out your risk from your oncologist - don't assume that you know what it is (mine is high but it's much less than I ever would have thought). EDITED TO ADD: Also talk to your oncologist to determine if BRCA genetic testing might be appropriate for you based on your family history of cancer and/or your age and/or your ethnicity (those of Ashkenazi Jewish descent are at higher risk). Those who are BRCA positive are very high risk to get BC and for many women, a positive BRCA test result is a compelling reason to have a bilateral mastectomy. On the other hand, for many women a negative BRCA test result helps with the decision to have a lumpectomy or single mastectomy rather than a bilateral.
- How will you feel if you have a lumpectomy and at some point in the future (maybe in 2 years or maybe in 30 years) you get BC again, either a recurrence in the same breast or a new BC in either breast? Will you regret your decision and wish that you'd had a bilateral mastectomy? Or will you be grateful for the extra time that you had with your breasts, knowing that you made the best decision at the time with the information that you had?
- How will you feel if you have a bilateral mastectomy and no cancer or high risk conditions are found in the other breast? Will you question (either immediately or years in the future) why you made the decision to have the bilateral? Or will you be satisfied that you made the best decision with the information you had?
Edited to add the point about BRCA testing. -
Excellent Beesie! I will copy and keep this list. With all the work you've done, you should write a book.
(formerly, barry)
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Yes I agree that was excellent!!!
I had a smx 2 weeks ago and it was never mentioned that I would possibly have radiation anyway and no one went near hormone therapy! Im glad I dont need radiation or chemo since everything was clear, but I have to still sit through an Onc appt next week to discuss tamoxifin and I am not happy.
I would add genetic counseling to the list. Because of family history, it was determined that I probably had a 7% chance of carrying the BRCA1 or 2 genes. I dont, but if I did have the genes, I would then have looked more into a BMX or Ovary removal. That was the game changer for me. I had the SMX because I am hedging my bets that it wont come back - and I couldnt see me losing BOTH nipples for a maybe. But that was my personal choice....the nipple loss was the tough one for me....more so than the breast - but I am starting recon.
Good luck to you. Its definitely a journey!
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Hi first posting so here goes. Hello, I would definately ask for them to test the lymph nodes in your arm pit before you make a decision.
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Definitely ask if you are a candidate for nipple sparing mastectomy, if your surgeon performs this type of mastectomy and what their level of experience is.
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Bella
My suggestions (questions and advice):
Bring a digital tape recorder and record everything... helps you so much later when you are trying to weed things out
Will the surgeon do the actual surgery (at teaching hospitals, residents are often involved).. who is doing the surgery and who is doing the anesthesia? Residents are ok for some things--- but you need to know that there are attendings there as well ---but I would imagine for a mast that the surgeon would be on board.....
I had a lumpectomy-- so if you go that route- what does the surgeon think about getting clear margins??? Can she do it? how many times would she be willing to go back in to get clear margins?
What is her experience with people in your particular situation--- what does she think the prognosis is? What would she do if you were her favorite sister?/
Best of luck
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Suebee, thanks! Adding a point about genetic counselling is a great idea. I had the BRCA test and if I'd tested positive I certainly would have been more inclined to have a BMX. I will edit the post and add that point in where I'm talking about future BC risk.
zz2c, I don't agree about checking the nodes before making the surgery decision, particularly for someone with DCIS. Since pure DCIS can't travel to the nodes, many women who have DCIS who have lumpectomies never have their nodes checked at all - it's just not necessary so there is no need to be exposed to the risk of lymphedema. Should some invasive cancer be found during the lumpectomy, an SNB can be done later. For those who have mastectomies, if the DCIS is high grade and there is a reasonable risk that some invasive cancer might be found, then an SNB is often done at the time of the mastectomy because it is so difficult to do an SNB after a mastectomy has been done. Even for those with invasive cancer, the surgery choice has nothing to do with whether or not there are cancer cells in the nodes. If someone is node positive, it means that the cancer cells have already started to move beyond the breast. While I read on this board often that women say that they'll have a mastectomy if they are node positive, in fact, that's kind of like shutting the barn door after the horses have escaped. Removing the entire breast when the cancer is already in the nodes does nothing to improve survival rates. That's not to say that those who are node positive shouldn't have mastectomies or BMX but the positive nodes really shouldn't influence that decision.
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Hi ladies, haven't been around in a while, been working like mad. I felt compelled to post in agreement with Beesie about the nodes. No one touched my nodes, and I'm extremely thankful for it.
Final path report showed "pure" DCIS only, if it had been otherwise I'd have gone in for a second surgery. I'm very happy with the way that part of things worked out.
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Beesie and all,
Thanks so much for your detailed, thoughtful advice. In addition to asking oneself the list of questions as posted by Beesie and others, I agree with momand2kids' posting about asking your BS's experience. I heard from a friend of mine also asked the question -- what will she do if I am her sister?
Everyday as I read the postings on this forum, I find out so much useful information, but they also make me realize that I might have assumed this process to be an easier and shorter one. It freaks me out now I know that I might be here in a long haul or journey, and that my body and strength may never return to the level as I am now pre-op. But one the other hand, seeing so many people having similar diagnosis as mine or more serious than mine being able to recover, it makes me feel less afraid.
Sometime it is also necessary to remind myself that my first and foremost concern is to get rid of cancer, and the breast reconstruction/DIEP is the secondary concern. Once a while I am too focused on the length and recovery process of DIEP which may have distracted my thinking of combating cancer.
I am getting a MRI tomorrow, and I hope to hear my BRAC result sometime soon. In any event, having just realized I am actually HER2 +++, I think I am very likely having to take Tamoxifen.
Do you guys know whether if I do a BMX, will I still need to take Tamoxifen given that I am HER2 +++?
Thanks again. I really appreciate visiting this forum and learning from others' experiences.
Bella
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Bella, HER2 status actually isn't meaningful for DCIS, at least not based on current medical knowledge. Some studies have shown that HER2+++ DCIS is more likely to become invasive; other studies have shown that HER2+++ DCIS is less likely to become invasive. All the studies have been small, too small to draw any definitive conclusions. What is known about HER2+++ DCIS is that it's quite common, a lot more common that HER2+++ invasive cancer. So what this means is that for some reason, either HER2+++ DCIS is less likely to become invasive and/or the HER2 status changes when the cancer evolves from DCIS to IDC.
At this point in time, Herceptin, which is the drug given to those who have invasive cancer that is HER2+++, is not approved for those with DCIS. There are a couple of clinical trials underway with DCIS women and Herceptin; the amount of Herceptin they receive is significantly lower than what would be given to someone with invasive cancer. It will be years before the results of these trials are available. In the meantime, those who have HER2+++ DCIS get exactly the same treatment as those who have HER2- DCIS.
Tamoxifen is the drug given to those who are ER+. If you have pure DCIS and have a bilateral mastectomy, there is no reason to take Tamoxifen. While you would still face a small risk of recurrence (probably about 1% - 2%) and a small risk of the development of a new breast cancer (again in the range of 1% - 2%), and while Tamoxifen would be able to reduce this risk, the overall benefit from Tamoxifen would be very small. At the same time, by taking Tamoxifen you would expose yourself to a small risk of serious side effects and a significant likelihood (about 60%) of quality of life side effects. That's why Tamox isn't usually recommended to those who have BMX for DCIS. Those who have invasive cancer who have a BMX are in a different situation because they face the added risk of distant recurrence (i.e. mets). Tamoxifen can reduce this risk as well and that benefit is the most significant and therefore often outweighs the risks from Tamoxifen for those who have invasive cancer.
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Thanks so much, Beesie! I have no idea about all these differences, so this is very educational!
Bella
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Bella
I just want to reassure you---there is no reason why you cannot feel just as good or better after your surgery and treatment.... I am almost 2.5 years out from dx and I can tell you , I feel great!!!
The best advice I got was to remember that it will take at least 1 year from the end of your treatment to feel like yourself--for me, that was true---- but even when I was not feeling quite like myself, I still felt pretty good. You will too..... it will take time, but I figure it was a small investment of time to gain what I hope are decades!!!!
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Beesie- I had read your posts concerning Tamoxifen and bilateral and so I knew when I saw my onc that I did not want to go the Tamoxifen route. I think about this almost daily and am very thankful to you for giving me the knowledge and confidence to make that choice.
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Annielynn and all,
So far I have heard different doctors give me different information about use of Tamox: my original BS told me that if I do bilateral, no need to take Tamox, but the oncologist whom I met at the same breast care center told me that I still need to take it if my BRCA results are positive. Yesterday I got my BRCA results, with BRCA2 fine and BRCA1 indicating genetic variant of uncertain significance. So my BS told me that I don't need to take Tamox after a BMX.
My brother, who is a BS in Japan, told me, however, I should take Tamox even after a BMX. So I think I have got mixed information. I will wait to talk to my new BS (I have transferred my case to a new breast care center) and oncologist and then know whether I will do it.
Good luck!
Mom&2kids,
My dear friend -- thanks so much for the encouragement. I think I am a little scared so I need to have more faith to the procedure and in myself.
Bella
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Annielynn, what did your oncologist say about Tamoxifen? It's pretty unusual that oncologists recommend Tamox to those who have bilaterals for DCIS. In my case I had a single mastectomy only and my oncologist didn't recommend Tamox - I've seen that quite a bit around here too.
Bella, does your brother understand that your breast cancer is DCIS, all non-invasive? For those who have invasive cancer, it is standard practice to recommend Tamox even after a bilateral but that's because of the risk of mets. Tamoxifen, because it is a systemic treatment (just like chemo), reduces the risk of both local recurrence risk and distant recurrence risk. With a mastectomy, you've already reduced your local recurrence risk to such a low number that the benefit from Tamoxifen will be very small (a 50% reduction of a 2% risk is only a 1% benefit). With DCIS, there is no risk of mets so there is no additional benefit from Tamoxifen. But those with invasive cancer do face a risk of mets and that's the reason why Tamox is usually recommended to them, even after a bilateral. Considering the serious nature of mets, even a very small reduction in risk is considered to be significant.
Here's a link to the NCCN Treatment Guidelines for Patients: http://nccn.com/images/patient-guidelines/pdf/breast.pdf
The NCCN guidelines are considered the gold standard and are used by most doctors in the U.S.. Under DCIS (on pages 10 - 11 and 64 - 65) what they say about Tamoxifen is:
Consider Tamoxifen for 5 years for:
- Patients treated with breast-conserving therapy (lumpectomy) with or without radiation therapy, especially for those with ER-positive DCIS
- Risk reduction therapy for opposite breast. Counselling for consideration of Tamoxifen for risk reduction.
So as I interpret that, the first point means that Tamoxifen is not recommended for those with mastectomies as a means to protect or reduce the risk of the breast that had breast cancer (because the mastectomy has already sufficiently reduced the risk). To the second point, I read this to mean that Tamoxifen would not be considered necessary for those who had a bilateral mastectomy because there is no longer a need to consider risk reduction therapies (seeing as the mastectomy has already reduced the risk by such a great extent). Even for those with who had single mastectomies (as I did), counselling should be provided (I assume to discuss risks and benefits of Tamoxifen) prior to deciding whether or not to take Tamoxifen for contralateral breast risk reduction. These guidelines are completely consistent with what my oncologist explained to me.
It will be interesting to know what your oncologist says. And keep in mind that a surgeon's role is to operate; an oncologist's role is to recommend on the entire course of treatment, including post-surgical treatment. So it's really the oncologist who is the expert on what treatments are required after your surgery is done.
Edited to get rid of the strange italicized copy on one of the paragraphs (don't know how it got there in the first place!).
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Just in from my Onc. I had a smx for DCIS and BRCA normal and lymph nodes clear.
She told me that it is standard treatment to suggest tx even after DCIS and Single MX but didnt push whatsoever. We talked about my age, history, diagnosis, diet, exercise and how I felt about what I heard about Tx. She said it was completely my decision to start or not - to start and stop - or to even wait a bit and then start. Together we decided that I will not take it now, will make changes to my diet (she gave me a book), and exercise more and get regular screenings. If I change my mind later, I am free to go back.
She DID say that it it was all invasive, however - the conversation wouldve been completely different.
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Sent you a PM. My breast surgeon is at the BI and I adore her. She is really good. :-)
*susan*
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Suebee, it sounds like you had exactly the sort of "counselling about consideration of Tamoxifen for risk reduction" that they talk about in the NCCN guidelines. I think the idea is that it should be discussed with every patient who has a single MX for DCIS, but the decision is a personal one that should be decided on a case by case basis through the discussion of the patient and oncologist.
By the way, my oncologist also told me that I could start Tamoxifen at any time in the future, should I change my mind. He even pointed out that as I get older and my annual risk to get BC increases (as it does for all women as they age), I might want to consider Tamoxifen then.
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Beesie - yes and I think we even logged into the NCCN website if I am correct! I also thought that I would reconsider my decision about the drug after a few years to see where research has gone by then too.
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Bees- my onc reviewed tamoxifen for me I think just as covering all the bases. She mentioned my low risk of reoccurrence and the benefits from tamoxifen would be minimal but asked what I wanted to do. Although going through breast cancer and a bilateral I feel I really dodged a bullet. My onc also talked about diet, age and exercise and their importance to my health. All things I took for granted before BC.
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