Oncotype dx
I am recovering from ALND where 22 more nodes were removed and all negative. Although I did have 3 positive nodes from sentinel biopsy. Oncologist sent tissue out for the "oncotype dx" test which is for node negative stage I and II cancers and determines the recurrence rate and whether you may or may not benefit from chemo. A new study suggest that post-menepausal women (which I am) with node POSITIVE stage I or II cancers may not benefit from chemo and are also eligible for this test. I was thinking "WHAT" no chemo?? Cancer has invaded my lymph nodes and he's suggesting no chemo. I know he's the doctor and NO he's not a pioneer but do any of you ladies out there have any knowledge of this new study? Could I be worrying over nothing?
Comments
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Sereena, The Oncotype test has been around for several years. It has only recently been used for node positive people. As far as not getting chemo that is such a hard decision. First, your Dr. needs to know your number from the Oncotype test. In my case I had a very small tumor with no nodes iinvolved, but my score on the test was 24. That put me in the gray area. In that area the Dr's usually leave the decision up to us, because they really don't know if chemo will help or not.
I know this really doesn't answer your questions, but it at least gives you some info to work with. Wait for the results of the test, then is the time for decisions.
Please stay with us, we really are a caring group of ladies.
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Hi Sereena, I had the Onco done, but I am node negative. Honestly, since you are asking advice, I would have chemo if I had cancer in my lymph nodes or if I had vascular invasion. Both are the two greatest ways for cancer to spread. Good luck on your decision. If you are unsure, you can also seek a few opinions and have severla Oncologists give you a recommendation.
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Thanks Bevin, Having 3 positive nodes and one of them having macroinvasion (5mm) really scares me when I think of the possibility of no chemo. There is no vascular invasion. The oncologist insists he is NOT a pioneer and will set the bar very high with the onco test. Ultimately it will be my decision but I am trying to gather enough information to insure I do the right thing. I have spoke to my surgeon about a second opinion.
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Sereena,
I had 2 large positive nodes and an oncotype of 12 which is low. I saw 3 oncologists and all 3 recommended chemotherapy but I was premenapausal. I agree with the others that you should seek a second opinion.
Your going through the hardest part now, coming up with a plan. Hopefully, one that you're comfortable with!
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Thank you toomuch, I see the your tumor was a grade 2 and mine being a grade 1. I wish there were no questions and everything was clear-cut. Using the oncotype test on post menopausal positive node cancers is so new and I don't think I want to jump on board:-(
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By all means, get several opinions. And remember, that the Oncotype DX test is just one tool in helping make the decision whether or not to do chemotherapy. If you wish to exclude the information derived from the Oncotype DX test in making your ultimate decision, then that's okay.
Personally, I think you need all the information possible to make a decision AND you should get several opinions. Remember, grade 1 breast cancers USUALLY do not respond as well to Chemotherapy as grade 3 breast cancers. But since you do have lymph node invasion, that, obviously is a concern. I think what your physician did, by requesting the Oncotype DX test is the prudent thing to do. I think s/he's in the gathering of information mode. The more information you have, the better position you will be in when it comes time for treatment decisions.
Lastly, once you gather your information, check out the 2011 NCCN Guidelines for your type of breast cancer. The NCCN Guidelines provide standard of care.
Good luck. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
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Thank you voraciousreader and I think I will be getting that 2nd opinion. Just the fact that there is lymph node invasion really worries me and I'm not trying to talk myself into chemo but REALLY!! I will look into the NCCN Guidelines. The more info the better I feel.
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Sereena ~ I'm with voraciousreader on getting a second opinion. What jumped out at me about your dx is that you had a relatively small lesion that was classified as Grade 1 -- yet you had 3 positive nodes, which seems to indicate that something isn't quite adding up, because there is some aggressive component to a bc that is that small, but in 3 nodes. You might also want to get a second opinion on your pathology.
Your above post didn't indicate if you had a lump or a mast, and I didn't take the time to read back through your earlier posts, but that might also factor into how I would look at your situation. Deanna
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Deanna - I was also thinking that there might be an aggressive component to the grade 1 tumor because she has three positive nodes. I think that's why the physician is recommending the Oncotype DX test...to get more information about the nature of the tumor. I hope Sereena will post the results of the test. Furthermore, if the Oncotype DX test comes back higher than "low" risk, I would definitely recommend a second pathology reading. As you're probably aware, a small number of grade 1 tumors come back "high" risk and there are, from time to time, grade 3 tumors that come back "low" risk.
I believe the 2011 NCCN Guidelines recommend chemo. In my humble opinion, I think the doctor STILL wants to be doubly positive with the results of the Oncotype DX test because it is grade 1.
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I do want to know why a Grade 1, 1.2 cm tumor could be in 3 lymph nodes and I didn't mention before but 10 months prior I had a negative mammogram. My oncologist did say that he would raise the bar quite high with regards to the oncotype results before deciding on a treatment plan. I am still left to wonder if whatever plan he presents to me if its the right one. Yes I am going to get a second opinion and I also know time is critical. I was diagnosed 7 days after my first surgery on November 30th. Time to get this show on the road. Two months and NO treatments.
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Sereena, my tumor was 2.2 cm. and I had one positive lymph node. They removed 13 more and they were all clear. My oncotytpe came back an 11 and I am post menopausal. I did have vascular invasion. I had a hard time trying to decide what to do and I felt if I did not do chemo, it would be a mistake (we'll see how that works out) but my oncologist encouraged me to just do arimidex (had to change to tamoxifen because of side effects.) I was 69 at the time of diagnosis and he told me I had a 2-3% disadvantage of long term side effects from chemo and would only gain a 1% benefit from it. He said that 5 years of arimidex (or tamoxifen) would give me my greatest benefit. It took me weeks to feel comfortable with that decision and I try not to look back and second guess what I chose to do.
Good luck, I know it is very confusing. Please let us know what you eventually decide.
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I see my oncologist on 2/14 (Happy Valentines Day) and I will post my results. Will be looking for some feedback. Thanks all!
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Sereena
Why everybody thinks that chemo is necessary to solve your cancer problem.Chemo kills good and bad cells..chemo could hurt in some cases than benefit..I been diagnosed with ILC on April 2010 when I did biopsy it came back positive, so I did a lumpectomy ( I don't understand why some ladies think that mastectomy will get rid of their cancer) if lumpectomy work than do that...
They removed 33 lymph for me and they were all clear..but because I have one positive my doctor wanted me to do chemo but I insisted in doing the oncotype dx test and it score 17 which is low so I refused chemo..now I take anastrozole for 5 years ..and I am free of cancer...
I find that the best thing to do when you get cancer is to pray a lot believe in God and let him work in you and believe that God can heal you and give you wisdom to make your own decisions
thats why cancer for me was like having a bad cold.
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frances1, I love your attitude and I'm getting there. It has been a slow process. Throughout my last 2 surgeries my father-in-law had been in hospice and just recently passed. So there has been a wealth of emption in this house. Your score of 17 is at the high end of low. For me, considering grade of tumor and 3/neg. nodes scares me to not do chemo and I think I would want to see at least a 10 or lower. You don't say what your tumor grade was. I am curious....the more knowledge I gain the better I feel. Thanks:-)
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Finally sat down with my oncologist to discuss the long awaited results of my oncotype test. Score came in at 10. Of course that creates a dilema for me. I will only benefit 1 and at the most 2% from chemo. So is it worth the side effects when Hormonal therapy appears (through new studies) to have a better longer term benefit even though I have 3 negative nodes. 2 nodes had only microscopic cancer cells and 1 node had a 5mm cancer. My tumor is only a Grade 1 and my ki67 is only 2% which is VERY low. I asked him if it were his wife would he recommend chemo, he said he would recommend her to the chief of oncology at Dana Farber (his boss) and he is sure he would NOT recommend chemo. Radiation and hormonal therapy only. I think I will use the weekend to think about it. Worried about those negative nodes:-( Really looking for some insight on this one!
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What were your levels on the onotype test for your ER and PR levels. My ER was somewhat high but my PR was below average. I factored that into my decision since the higher they are the better the hormonal therapy works. I agree with the people who say a grade 1 does not get much benefit from the chemotherapy and that needs to be considered. I had a 27 oncotype and was a grade 3 but did not have any cancer in my nodes. I did TC x 4 but my oncologist gave me the choice about having chemo since I was still in grey area. Good luck! I am glad I had the chemo yet struggled with low energy for a long time afterwards, lost my eyebrows for good and toenails are terrible to look at and make some shoes uncomfortable to wear. Still all in all if it keeps cancer away it was worth it...I will never know since the arimidex could be keeping me in the safe zone and not the chemo and if it comes back who will know if I had the best chemo for my cancer or if it might have delayed it etc etc. It is all a guess and has a great deal of uncertainity no matter what you choose.
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Hi,
My ILC in 06 was 1 cm, oncotypedx of 9, clear nodes, clear margins. I had a lumpectomy, 34 rads and four years of Tamoxifen. I was negative for BRCA. My ER was as high as it could be and my pr was negative, her -. EVERYONE told me not to do chemo. Here I am 4 years to the month later with a recurrence of ILC in the same breast and on the skin of that breast. In hindsight, I wish I would have done chemo. It works well on my ILC because after just the first AC treatment, my tumors disappeared. I know its a hard decision but I wish I would have a least had a double mastectomy the first time. Now I'm going through 20 weeks of chemo followed by a double MX and it stinks.
Take care,
Nancy
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Hi
I think I would be concerned about those nodes. I had a 27 on the oncotype, no node involvement and I chose 4 rounds of A/C (I was at the Farber as well).... have never regretted it.... it was hard, but I am glad I did it...... I know your score is low, but think about those 3 nodes..... can you get a second opinion?
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KDG, Thanks for your input. I decided against chemo and started radiation last week. Being only stage I, having a 1.1 cm tumor and a ki67 of only 2% really made my decision. I picked up my arimidex a few days ago but have not started taking it. I have been staring at the bottle for 2 days and from what I have been reading......will dread the day I start taking it.
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Sereena--I think you've made a rational choice. Nodes tend to be overestimated as a prognostic factor, especially if the involved nodes are sentinels. Lobular tumors are typically slow-growing, so it might have taken years for three stray cells to be trapped by the three nodes closest to the source. First there was just one, which developed into the larger mass. Later, when the tumor got bigger, two more stray cells were trapped.Given the time lapse between the larger mass and the smaller ones, that doesn't seem terribly aggressive to me.
A/Is can cause side effects, but don't be afraid to try them. There are other options besides Arimidex, and there are ways of managing the side effects they do cause. Most people have no serious ses. I take Femara, and have had nothing except fatigue, which I got rid of by taking a month's vacation from the pill with my oncologist's blessing.
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Seabee,Thank you! It was a decision I agonized over making but have never looked back. I am happy to say that today I took my 7th dose of arimidex and no side effects. Yay!!! Hoping it remains this way. I am 10 down and 20 (rads) to go and no signs of any irritation yet. Also hoping it remains that way!
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Hi Sereena, I am late to this conversation. But my wife has to make a similiar decision on chemo or not.1.3 tumor Lumpectomy, Radiation nodes all clear. Oncotype was 20. She really wants to avoid chemo, Oncologist says it her decision but recomends it. Might help, might hurt.I guess what I really want to know is how are you today?
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