If not an AI-what you are taking and how is it going?

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Hi-

So many of us are seeking other solutions to the standard course of treatments. I think it would be great if you could post your diagnosis, what you are taking, how much of each, how long you have been taking it,any side effects, what your experience has been (blood test wise, etc). Thanks!

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2011

    I am taking a product called Estro Detox by AOR which contains Calcium D glucorate 200mg, DIM 108 mg, SGS 300 mg and Hops extract 120 mg.  I take 2 caps in the morning and 1 cap at night.  My naturopath tested by hormone levels last year when I was taking 1 cap both morning and night and she decided to up my morning does.  Really should get another test however, finances are tight right now so that will have to wait.

    When I told my oncologist I took myself off Arimidex (after 5 months) he said well then make sure you eat really healthy (no junk food) - that's ok I eat mostly organic and am a vegetarian (lots of fruits, salads, nuts, etc); exercise - yep doing that ; and no drinking.  OK well I do have a glass of red wine every now and then - not very often mind you maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

    Have you checked out the Natural Girls thread?  It's very long - lots of activity and lots of good info.

    Carol 

  • MarieKelly
    MarieKelly Member Posts: 591
    edited January 2011

    My alternative course of treatment is to take nothing and do nothing other than the lumpectomy I had in 2004. I do however, now get yearly mammograms which is something I wasn't doing for a while (skipped them for 7-8 years) but otherwise, I get no tests or exams. 

    So far, it's been going fine. Other than continuing to read this website off and on ever since  my diagnosis, my entire breast cancer experience was over and done with in just a few months back in 2004. I haven't even seen an oncologist since then either.

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited January 2011

    That is awesome Marie! DO you get "well-woman" exams (i.e. general blood tests, etc? I see you get mammos which is good, since that is how they found mine, but I think it is a good idea for a general physical at least once a year...just my thoughts. I am glad you are doing good:)

  • MarieKelly
    MarieKelly Member Posts: 591
    edited January 2011

    Thanks, Annettek. I do get a yearly physical from my PCP (a physicians assistant) and the routine blood tests that go along with that. My PCP is the only reason I finally got the mammogram that found the cancer after so many years of blowing them off - she hounded me every time she saw me until I finally did it just to appease her. Just a month or so ago, she ordered a lumbar spine MRI because I made an appointment complaining about a wicked back ache that had been going on for over 2 weeks. Normally, she wouldn't order an MRI right off the bat for non-traumatic back pain, but did just because of my breast cancer history. So, I am being followed medically - just not by an oncologist.

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited January 2011

    That is awesome! To me, that is 99% of the whole deal, finding a doctor with which we are comfortable and trust. That is how I feel about my my regular MD and now, the new onocologist I just found last week. My last oncologist was a superstar so to speak, but although I liked him, there was a feeling of same old same old-like my case was just not interesting enough for his research studies so I would take whatever was out there. New one is totally different and open to my line of thought. She actually said "I am not so scared of your breast cancer ever killing you, nope, we have to get you to stop smoking NOW". She spent an hour talking with me. I trust her, she trusts me, so here we go. I am trying to curb my crazy estrogen postive diagnosis with supplements and she is all for it. We will monitor through blood work. Am focusing next on the smoking, or lack of it....tough battle, I have smoked for 40 years. But I can do it.

  • Azz
    Azz Member Posts: 25
    edited February 2011

    Hi. I had lumpectomy Oct 5 and axillary dissection Nov 15, followed by 16 radiation treatments. Next step was Arimidex; however, I have decided to go with AOR's Estro Detox, CoQ10, Green Tea Extract and other supplements. Have changed diet, lifestyle, added meditation and more exercise. Just started the Estro Detox today - unfortunately my GP isn't too happy with my decision  Haven't even told the oncologist yet - seeing her in March and I was supposed to be on the Arimidex already so the appointment would have been a follow-up. Pretty sure she won't be too pleased either, but we each have to decide what feels right for us.

    I like the research that's gone into the Estro Detox product - it seems to deal with estrogen in much the same way as AI's without all the side effects. I just know for myself that if I take something I'm worried about, it "ain't going to work". Best of luck to all women facing this challenge!

  • Kathy044
    Kathy044 Member Posts: 433
    edited February 2011

    Hi again Azz, I'll be turning 67 shortly. I had a look at the url for Estro Detox that you posted on the other thread. I'd say that according to the information on the page that this product might work  in the exact opposite way to the AIs, when it mentions treating hot flashes due to low estrogen and cardio vascular effects due to low estrogen. That last bit is just wrong anyway. Low estrogen doesn't have bad cardio effects, low HDL as a result of low estrogen maybe, but there are other lifestyle  fixes for that.

    Anyway this is my point of view. My philosophy has always been that we don't need very much estrogen post menopause for good health and I blame the excess I had from being overweight (along with a family propensity for cancer) as the reason for my bc. 

    So to go back to your question. I too am using exercise and weight management as the main method to keep estrogen levels in check. Good for QOL too.  I am taking Armidex and have been for six months now, so far without any problems. If I need to take pills to treat SE's I'll drop it.  If I continue to keep my weight down I may also consider stopping at the one or two year mark. I aleady have osteoporosis so have a good reason to go off it, but in the meantime I will have had some benefit. If I stop I would not replace the Armidex with anything else. 

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited February 2011
    Hey Azz & Kathy- thanks for posting. Well, my onc turned out to be like about every other medical professional and insisted on the AIs...what floored me was that she did not have an estrogen level for me. When I specifically asked if the AIs do anything other than inhibit the estrogen she said no. To which I said Then why can't we monitor what my DIM plus and other supplements are doing and if it does not keep levels down, I will go on AI. She said it is irrelevant! That I have to be on an AI as it is protocol. That is just ridiculous to me. I said you know, I want something I can live with my entire life not just for five years. Totally ignoring me, she said there was no need for an estrogen level - which I believe she was saying so I could not measure my progress with naturals. Anyway, I agreed and took the prescription- when I left the office I called back and said since I am a numbers person, please order the estrogen blood test so I can see how the AI is working other than "the side effects" as she told me I would have (Now isn't that professional) She agreed after I swore I would take the AIs. So, I will have my test and get my levels and continue with my regimen for the next three months until I see her again and get retested. It is so moronic to have to play games such as this but I will as my life depends on it. Estro Detox does not seem to be a bad product for hormone suppression from what I read. Once I have my levels I will post them and then repost again in three months. I am not a fool- if this way does not work at suppressing the hormones, then I will try the AI.
  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    I saw an oncologist last week who said she wouldn't recommend Als for me. Thankful...whew!

    Apparently upto this point I haven't done a lot right, because, after two years, I am again dx with cancer.  I've recently learned a lot. After my second dx, I was on a journey to understand why my body turned on me. After dealing with these issues, and adding a few new steps to cancer prevention, I hope that cancer will soon be behind me.

    So...what am I doing now...

    1. Taking care of my thryroid problem...I' don't have it completely together..but getting there  :)

    2. Took care of H Pylori bacteria infection, and fungus infection that could had contributed to bc...i plan to detox, and continue to treat candida overgrowth.

    3. Taking a lot of supplements

    4. Resveratrol (intense amount) Just started this week.

    5. Cololeral Silver (ASAP) Haven't started yet..in a few days..putting it and coconut oil on breast.

    6. Good Diet & Exercise

    7. Stay Positive

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2011

    No drugs and no more oncs for me. I have totally gone wHolistic. Lost weight, changed diet, exercise almost daily, take supplements including iodine, detox regularly, learned how to de stress, got a root canal removed and am getting my mercury amalgams out, learned to appreciate and love life more and most of all, I don't worry about cancer!

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited February 2011

    Barry- what was your initial diagnosis and what was done to treat it? I ask so many questions but it helps me to understand. thanks:)

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited February 2011

    Can anyone tell me what Resveratrol is, and where I can find it?

  • mollyann
    mollyann Member Posts: 472
    edited February 2011

    Annettek,

    With your diagnosis, I'm surprised your onc is so insistent on the current Arimidex "guidelines."

    Some others with your diagnosis have reported their oncs don't push Arimidex after a bi lat mastectomy. I think the guidelines will soon follow this practice. And as you suggest, stopping smoking might be a huge boost. I would also suggest the iodine, D3, melatonin and Curcumin tho.

  • Aza
    Aza Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2011

    Kira,

    Reservatrol is an antioxidant found in red grape skins.  You can read about it at

    http://www.lef.org/resveratrol/   or research at other internet sites. 

    Taking it doesn't hurt and might help.  

  • Aza
    Aza Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2011

    Barry,

     Sorry to hear about your second dx.  Did your onc say that the infections and thyroid problems could have triggered the cancer? It sounds like you are taking positive steps to reduce the chances of a recurrence.

    If you are a guy, that is probably why she didn't recommend AI's. Women are usually the ones who have more estrogen.

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited February 2011

    Aza, Thanks for the info. I think I will add it to what I'm taking already.

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited February 2011

    Barry is a woman- she uses her husband's name:) And what a load about the second diagnosis...I am sorry sister but you sound like you are doing what needs to be done to fight it. If it is estrogen positive you may want to add the DIM at the least.

    Molly- I am on or soon will be, everything you suggest short of the iodine. Fill me in on that. For 5 weeks I have been taking DIM (same brand used in clinical trials), COQ10, B-12 and calcium. Three weeks ago I started an intense doseage of D3 as my levels were low (18) and am waiting on my grapeseed extract I ordered (i wanted the same brand that is being used in the clinical trials so I got it online), and the curcumin (sp). Will fold this in as soon as they get here. I can't wait to have the damn baseline for my hormone level (estrogen) my progesterone was down to .3 and it ticks me not to have the estrogen level but I will have that this week.

    Very excited to stop smoking. And that statement in itself is a miracle of sorts. I am throwing all the big guns at it.  My goal is to be the healthiest I have ever been. Except for the damn BC I have been blessed with hardy genes and will do everything to support it. I have always taken care with what I eat- not to extremes as that is too hard to sustain and too easy to sabotage. Yet I find when eating right that I don't enjoy indulgences quite so much. The only steak I have had since BC just did not live up to what I expected. Same with crap food (processed). I made a box of au gratin potatoes the other night and it was so funny...have not made it in years...both my husband and I spit out the first taste...the salt levels were just off the charts. We started laughing and he told me over the years I ruined him for bad foods:)

    Once the PS releases me after my exchange I shall resume working out. That will help with my old bones:) Nothing like weight bearing exxcercise to help and it makes me feel so good.

    This is great hearing from all you...it helps shed light on some very dark things:)

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    Aza...lol...I should change the Barry name...when I first came to bco, I used it because I was a little leary of bco and felt safer using my husband's name. At that time, it was the best I could come up with. :) I should change it, not quite sure how.   And now that everyone knows me as Barry, I'm reluctant to change it. :)

    The reason both the breast cancer navagator and the oncologist said they wouldn't recommend Al's is because I' have Hashiminto, a thyroid autoimmune disease. To be honest, I wouldn't had taken it anyway. I was just happy they weren't going to push it or feel that as if I was being obstinate if I said I wasn't going to take it.

    My estrogen and progesterone are both 3+

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited February 2011

    Hey, I finally got it. I changed my username from barry to evebarry. I am really glad. I didn't feel all that comfortable with the username barry.  My husband's and my name combined :)

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited February 2011

    EVebarry is a wonderful username!

  • Shrek4
    Shrek4 Member Posts: 1,822
    edited February 2011

    I am not taking AI's as I cannot - they make my thyroid levels skyrocket. I am in a little bit of a conundrum. Being hyperhtyroid, the estrogen being a thyroid uptake inhibitor, anything that would lower my estrogen levels would make my thyroid levels shoot up to dangerous zones. So, I am taking DIM, 200 mg daily. DIM does not lower the estrogen level, it only changes the "bad estradiol" into "good estradiol" (i.e. the one that doesn't feed cancer).

    I hope it will work for me until I go get a second dose of Radioactive Iodine to kill completely my thyroid (the first does didn't do the trick as you can see).

  • annettek
    annettek Member Posts: 1,640
    edited February 2011

    This is my personal experience with Arimidex. I bit the bullet and decided to try it. I was fearful that in myown way I was outsmarting myself by not taking what every medical professional told me I needed. One pill, that's all I took. I decided to try it at night, before I went to sleep. I was calm and actually thinking it would be a good thing. I  took a bath and went to bed. I fell asleep shortly after. Then I woke up. And went back to sleep. This repeated itself through the night interspersed with bouts of explosive diarreah. I woke up (for tenth time) and got ready for work feeling like I was on the worst kind of speed. I skipped my vitamins as I did not want any extra enhancements adding to the mix. One pill, the night before. I got to work and was hyper and of course tired, from the lack of sleep. But felt like, ok, if this is the worst, I will just take the pill very very early in the morning and then I will be able to sleep. Maybe the diarreah was stress or something. That was fine until about 1pm in the afternoon, I was standing outside talking to a friend and my left arm went numb. Like I had just woken up after sleeping on it. I shook it and commented how odd it felt. Then she looked at me and said how glassy my eyes were and I said not much sleep last night. I sat down and then my left leg was tingling. I said this is ridiculous, it must be from me being scared or something, one pill could not do this that quick. So I got up and laughed it off and went back upstairs to the office. By the time i got back my eyes were watering and I felt my head was pounding,my eyes were burning and red.I shook it off, again, saying this is CRAZY, I must be getting sick. My brain was completely spinning. My sister came over and asked me what was wrong as my eyes were so red and glassy and I was holding my arm funny. I said I did not know. I hadnever felt this bad in my life...inclduing when I go the BMX...at least when I woke up from that I anticipated something would hurt. But this was weird. Like nothing before. I called my husband and said I didn't know if I could drive home so to hang in case I needed to call him. I made it home crying the whole way. By the time I got home I was convinced it was not the pill but that I had undergone a small stroke. My neck was was sore and the left side was weirding out. My husband got home and sat withme and got me to take a hot bath. Once I sat back in the tub I got really really MAD! I said I must be nuts honey...because one pill could not do this to a person. He corrected me and said I knew better than that. He reminded me of the two times in his life when he had violent side effects following the first or second dose of two different drugs. He reminded me of the drugs back in high school that people (him and his friends,not goody two shoes me:) took and how one little pill did an awful lot. I started crying harder. I sadi what if it doesn't get better? My arm and leg are numb and I have shooting spur type feelings in my foot. My neck hurts and I my stomach is rumbling loud enough for him to hear it. I turned on the jets in the tub to massage my hold body ...and kept crying. I was too scared to take a tylonel or an ativan because I did not know if it would make &it& worse...he told me to get mad so I would not be scared...(he knows me well) so i did. I went on to say not only would I not ever take a FRIGGIN AI of any kind again but I damn well would quit smoking without adding more drugs to the mix. Somehow I had slowly started to buy intoit all...the big name hospitals and the big name docs telling me I NEEDED THIS STUFF. Now don't get me wrong...i am not a fool and if I had a more agressive cancer I damn well would do what was neccessary. BUT...this is why I had a BMX, this is why I started a regimen to suppress the estrogen naturally based on clinical trials...this is why I changed my diet, this is why I decided to stop smoking...to battle the BC so I could live a good life. So I got good and mad. Mad atmyself for not trusting my gut which has led me right since all of this began. I was mad that there untold women suffering horrific side effects so they can make some magical 5year mark while their life is compromised in so many other ways along the path to get there. NO. My sister called as she was worried about me and said she had never been so scared in her life when she saw me that afternoon. And let me tell you my sister is no alarmist and in fact would be the first one to tell me it was inmy head. She said you know, maybe that is why so manypeople can't believe you have gone through all of this...as you are healing so well and have generally been getting stronger and healthier...maybe if you had taken the AIs right after surgery like they wanted you to you might have been sicker like everyone seemed to expect you to be. And maybe you would not haveknown the difference thinking it was all part of the process of breast cancer. That you were supposed to feel like &hit. And I thought about that and I have to agree. Don'tget me wrong, I have had some rough days since the BMX but not anything like what happened to me yesterday. But if I hadnot had eight weeks of healing before trying this poison how would I know how to feel? I had never had breast cancer andsurgery before...all of the symptoms would have gotten swept up in the general Bc aftermath....Let me say this,  Ivcould never have dreamed it would hit me that hardvthat fast. I stayed home from work today and rested. As the day has gone on most feeling returned with just my upper arm and elbow and knee and heel tingling/feeling weird still. My stomach is racked. A little gross aside...I went to the restroom and after wiping...there was blood. Now I know where I wiped and have neverhad blood from my rear before in 54 years. I start screaming a bit ago for my husband and we looked it up...yep, one of the rare side effects...I missed that one in my reading..I am hoping that I had a hemi I did not know abotu suddenly decide to bleed (dont they do that? soemtimes) from all the diarreah....If it continues until tomorrow I will go to doc. But i am sick of docs rightnow. Pissed at docs right now. So here it is almost 24 hours following one dose  of arimidex. My story, my experience. No wonder so many write of their pains, I will never glossover those plaintive writings again when reading them. I truly believe none of them are exagerrating and they must feel like theya re going nuts to have that stuff start popping off in their bodies. My case might be unique and the effects extreme. I can only liken it to a poison that my body is trying to get rid of. The bitch is the drug can linger in your system for 50-60 hours. I will stick with that and not pay attention to someone who called astrazeneca and was told each dose can actually remain active within for 10-11 days. Nope. In this case I will use mind over matter to get over this mini catastrophe. And be grateful that now I do not have to play the what if game. I don't care what brand or formulation, I will not put it in my body again. It scared me and I hope I don't have lingering anything from it. God bless all of you who can handle it. I cannot.

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