Lumpectomy vs skin-sparing mastectomy for cosmetic purposes

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Cat123
Cat123 Member Posts: 296
Lumpectomy vs skin-sparing mastectomy for cosmetic purposes
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  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited April 2011

    Hi,

     My tumour is 3 cm and starts under my areola.  The surgeon and various other medical staff have told me that I will not like the cosmetic look of a lumpectomy and should consider the skin-sparing mastectomy with immediate reconstruction.  I am so confused.  I currently have saline implants and am a B cup.  The PS told me yesterday that with the new implant I will be smaller?  From the pictures I have seen on the internet, women seem to have the same or larger breasts after reconstruction.  Can anyone advise?  Is a ss mastectomy the way to go?  Will my breast be smaller with reconstruction?  Thank you!

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited September 2010

    Others can chime in about the skin sparing with immediate recon, but does your ps offer skin-sparing mx with tissue expander placement, with a delayed reconstruction?  That way you'd have the expanders in place to hold the skin in shape while you undergo treatment, then you could have the tissue expanders expanded to the size you want before undergoing recon.  Also, that would give you the option to either get implants or go for something like DIEP recon if you're interested in that and are a good candidate. If you're not familiar with them, tissue expanders are sort of temporary implants but saline can be injected into them over a period of weeks prior to recon surgery to gradually stretch the skin to accomodate the size recon you want.  

    I had a bilat skin-sparing mx with tissue expander placement.  After active treatment was done, I had a series of saline fills done on the tissue expanders to get the size I wanted, then underwent a delayed DIEP flap.  I am very happy with the results.  

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited September 2010

    Thanks NatsFan.  The PS did mention tissue expanders and I wanted to talk more about the one-step Alloderm.  I was surprised that with the tissue expanders she said I would be smaller.  Everyone else I know is the same or bigger.  Were yours the same size as before?

    She also mentioned that if I needed radiation, they couldn't do the skin puckering for a new nipple that it would be tattoo only.  That sounded strange to me too. 

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited September 2010

    Natsfan,

    Did you decide to have a mastectomy for cosmetic purposes?  The surgeon is letting me decide whether I want the lumpectomy or mastectomy.

  • whippetmom
    whippetmom Member Posts: 6,920
    edited September 2010

    That is pretty dismal of your PS to tell you that unequivocally you will be "smaller" after skin sparing MX.  As NATS stated above, with tissue expanders and, depending on your skin integrity, it is very likely you will be able to exchange out to an implant which will give you symmetry with your augmented native breast.  A "B" cup is not that far of a reach for expansion purposes.  I see you are in Canada - I think you need to get a second opinion.  I have seen a number of Canadians who come from MX with larger breasts than they had prior to MX.  So it can be done.  Perhaps this PS was inferring that he would perform a "one-step" - which is to state, skin sparing MX with immediate implant placement, rather than using tissue expanders.  You need further clarification if this is the case.  I do not think you want a "one-step" - because yes, your end result would be smaller than the augmented native breast. 

  • whippetmom
    whippetmom Member Posts: 6,920
    edited September 2010

    If you want to PM me, I have two names in Ontario I could recommend to you....

  • Alyad
    Alyad Member Posts: 817
    edited September 2010

    I had a similar situation- my tumor was sub areola- did they say the nipple would have to go? That was heartbreaking for me.I like my nipples. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. I read somewhere that lumpectomies in the center of the breast don't give very good cosmetic results, esp after radiation, the skin can contract in odd ways and the results can be pretty awful looking.  So I opted for a skin sparing mast with free TRAM reconstruction, tho I wish I had found someone who could do DIEP instead (less muscle used). I found this article that does a pretty good job at discussing issues in reconstruction in lumpectomies, you might find it helpful. If you have any questions , please feel free to PM me.

     http://www.plasticsurgerypractice.com/issues/articles/2009-05_05.asp

  • NatsFan
    NatsFan Member Posts: 3,745
    edited September 2010

    Hi Cat - I had multi-focal tumors, so lumpectomy was not an option for me.  I decided to go with the prophy mx on the "good" side as I was at higher risk anyway (mom died of b/c, several female relatives on both sides were survivors, etc.). I actually wanted to go smaller as I had extremely large breasts so I took the opportunity to downsize those puppies while I had the chance.  But as whippet as says, there are many women who are the same or even upsized after recon, depending on their preference.  

    As others have said, it never hurts to get a second opinion.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited September 2010

    Cat, there is a lot more to the lumpectomy vs. mastectomy decision than just cosmetic results.  And even from the standpoint of cosmetic appearance, while most of us end up reasonably happy with our reconstruction, it often takes a while to get to that point.  The fact is that no matter how good your plastic surgeon is, there is no guarantee of what the cosmetic results will be.  When it comes to reconstruction, often our bodies have minds of their own and react in ways that can't be predicted.

    I recently posted this list of questions/considerations for someone else who was making a Lumpectomy vs. Mastectomy decision; this individual was also considering whether to go all the way and have a Bilateral Mastectomy.  This is a good starter list of things you should consider as you make this decision:

    • Do you want to avoid radiation? If your cancer isn't near the chest wall and if your nodes are clear, then it may be possible to avoid radiation if you have a mastectomy.  This is a big selling point for many women who choose to have mastectomies, however you should be aware that there is no guarantee that radiation may not be necessary even after a mastectomy, if some cancer cells do happen to be found near the chest wall or if it turns out that you are node positive. 
    • For most women, a lumpectomy is a relatively easy surgery and recovery.  After a lumpectomy, radiation usually is given for 6 weeks.  A mastectomy is a longer, more complex surgery and the recovery period is longer.  How do you feel about going through a longer surgery and recovery period? Also be aware that reconstruction, even "immediate" reconstruction, is usually a long process - many months - and often requires more than one surgery.  Some women have little discomfort during the reconstruction process but other women find the process to be very difficult - there is no way to know until you are going through it. Are you prepared for that?
    • How you do feel about your body image and how will this be affected by having a mastectomy? Reconstructed breasts usually looks fine in clothing but may not appear natural when naked (this is particularly true of implant reconstruction). They may not feel natural. You may have lingering side effects (muscle pain or spasms, etc.) on one side or both. Will this bother you? If you have a mastectomy and you have complications with reconstruction and/or require a revision (which is not uncommon), how will you feel? How will you feel if you have some ripples or some indentations/unevenness? Will imperfections like this cause you to regret the decision to have a mastectomy or are you prepared the imperfections that often occur with implant reconstruction?  Or what about if you don't end up with symmetry (i.e. each of your breasts look or fall differently)?  Be aware that with a single mastectomy, while you may be able to get good symmetry of appearance, the feel and movement of your reconstructed breast might be very different than the feel and movement of your natural breast.  And even if you have a bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction on both sides, symmetry is not a sure thing. Our bodies aren't symmetrical, so the exact same implant might sit differently on one side of your chest vs. the other, or your chest muscle might be tighter on one side and as a result, the shape of your breasts might appear to be a bit different.  These differences sometimes can be fixed with a revision surgery but you need to be aware that these things can happen. 
    • How do you feel about losing the natural feeling in your breast and your nipple?  Is your nipple important to you sexually?  Remember that a mastectomy will change your body for the rest of your life.  Are you prepared for that?
    • How will you deal emotionally with the loss of your breast? Will you be glad that it's gone because it was the source of your cancer, or will you be angry that cancer forced you to lose your breast?   Don't just consider how you feel now, as you are facing the breast cancer diagnosis, but try to think about how you will feel in a few years, once this diagnosis is well behind you.  A lot of women don't really feel the loss until quite some time has passed.
    • Will removal of your breast help you move on from having had cancer or will it hamper your ability to move on? Will you feel that the cancer is gone because your breast is gone? Or will the loss of your breast be a constant reminder that you had breast cancer?
    • Appearance issues aside, do you know your recurrence risk if you stick with just a lumpectomy and radiation?  Is this risk level one that you can live with or one that scares you?  How would you deal emotionally with this risk level?  Will you live in constant fear or will you be satisfied that you've reduced your risk sufficiently and not worry about it (except when you have your 6 mth or annual screenings)? If you would always worry, then having a mastectomy might be a better option.  Be aware however that a mastectomy doesn't completely eliminate your risk of a local (in the breast area) recurrence and has no impact whatsoever on your risk of a distant recurrence (i.e. mets).
    • Do you know your risk to get BC in your other (the non-cancer) breast?  Is this a risk level that scares you and or one that you can live with?  If you are considering a bilateral (and I don't know if you are), this is something to consider. 
    • If you have a lumpectomy and get BC again, either a recurrence in the same breast or a new BC in your other breast, will you regret your decision and wish that you'd had a bilateral mastectomy? Or will you feel that you made the best decision at the time with the information that you had?
    • If you have a mastectomy or bilateral mastectomy and aren't happy with the reconstruction results, will you question (either immediately or years in the future) why you made the decision to remove your breasts? Or will you be satisfied that you made the best decision with the information you had?

    I hope I haven't scared you; that's not my intent.  But before heading into a mastectomy or bilateral mastectomy, it's important to know what's ahead and what may happen.  Now, for some better news.  To your question about breast size, I had a single mastectomy with an expander and implant reconstruction and I ended up slightly larger than I started out.  To achieve this, I had a small implant added into my 'good' breast.  I started out as a full "A" or small "B" and ended up as a full "B".  That's not much of an increase but it was all I wanted - my PS was willing to go quite a bit larger, if I'd wanted.  So if you are a "B" now, there is no reason why size should be an issue. And I'm in Ontario too.  I had my surgery done at Princess Margaret Hospital.

    I hope that this helps.

  • mtndawn
    mtndawn Member Posts: 115
    edited September 2010

    I had skin sparing mast since I was very small and my tumor was large.  I did immed recon with TEs and I'm definitely bigger now.   I had extra skin from years of breastfeeding.  With TEs, you should be able to get to whatever size you want.  It does go under the muscle, but alloderm helps make room for the TEs.  I am not an expert, but I would think you can go bigger of the same.  Just my 2 cents.

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited August 2013

    If there are other factors involved it's a different story, but personally, I would NOT have a mast for cosmetic reasons alone! It is major surgery, and like all surgery carries risks of unintended complications, not to mention the loss of sensation, and the extra time/expense/pain of reconstruction. I had a 3 cm tumor, and had a lumpectomy. Although the shape was not great a first, the fat moved around and filled in the breast quite well. This is terrible to think and say, but the more extreme measures one takes, the more money the medical establishment makes...which can influence their advice to patients.

  • toni30
    toni30 Member Posts: 252
    edited October 2010

    Cat1 = Are you going to  need chemo? Because some women get neo adj chemo (before surgery) and it can shrink the lump so the surgery has less impact on the breast.  The first BS I saw did not offer this to me, but the second one did and that's the route I went. 

  • msmpatty
    msmpatty Member Posts: 818
    edited October 2010

    Cat - My tumor was a little smaller than yours but also involved the nipple and aerola. My surgeon warned me that lumpectomies where the nipple is lost are more "disfiguring" and that my breast would be "flat" on the front after losing the nipple and unlying tissue.   Despite that, she encouraged me to go the lumpectomy route because it is definitely less "disfiguring" and decidedly easier than an MX with or without reconstruction.  She also indicated that while radiation is mandatory after a lumpectomy,  it may also be indicated after a MX, particularly one where the aerole/skin is involved, so that shouldn't be a consideration in the decision.   I almost went for the MX, but decided on the lumpectomy after she told me that a MX was always an option if the lumpectomy result bothered me a lot.

     As it turned out, I'm completely happy with the lumpectomy.  My breasts are still equal in size (C cup) and although one lacks a nipple, I've come to like my "smoothie".   With a lightly padded bra, you can't tell the difference.  And since the scars are now invisible it even looks fine in the raw.

    It's a hard decision and one you can only make for yourself.  Do what feels right...and you'll do the right thing for you.

    Patty

     

  • Alyad
    Alyad Member Posts: 817
    edited August 2013

    msmpatty- thanks for posting! My tumor was near the nipple and I went with the mx bc I thought I'd be unhappy with the nippleless lump- but now I'm thinking well that's what I have anyway and I had radiation anyway!

    I wonder how bad it would have been had I just went with the lumpectomy as I had chemo 5 weeks after the mx with TRAM and I think everything just was just cumulative- I don't think chemo would have been as bad had I not had major surgery just prior!  At the time I just wanted to get it all over with and I am content with the decisions I made knowing what I knew at the time, but I sometimes wonder how a lumpectomy would have turned out.

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited October 2010

    I think you are right Alyrad.  Because of the location of the tumour under my areola, the lumpectomy plus rad would look really bad.  At least that is what all the professionals seem to tell me.  I hate the thought of losing my nipple too but the idea of a lumpectomy that would cause me to look deformed doesn't sit well with me either.  Decisions, Decisions....and this is just the start!

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited October 2010

    Ruthbru, that's what scares me.  You had a lumpectomy and it turned out fine as was the case with two of my friends.  My tumour starts under the areola so maybe that is why but it seems drastic.  Also, maybe it is because I already have implants that they think the lump with rads is bad

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited October 2010

    Toni30, my surgeon did mention the chemo first to shrink the tumour but then said no.  That thought scares me too.  You know what I hate about all of this?  Everyone gets totally different opinions....there doesn't seem to be a cohesive standard.  Two of my gfs have bc and their docs tell them different things too.

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited October 2010

    Just for what it's worth; radiation didn't affect the shape, color, size of my boob at all.....just got red at the time. The frustrating thing for each person is that you have to go into it not knowing how you, yourself, will fare with whatever you choose to do.....no matter how well or poorly anyone else did. Could you get another opinion?  Sending a big cyber-hug!!! Ruth

  • Alyad
    Alyad Member Posts: 817
    edited October 2010

    one option you might consider is to go ahead with the lumpectomy and if it turns out poorly, then you could opt for a masectomy with reconstruction later. I don't know if you are doing chemo or not, but as I posted before having chemo a few weeks after such major surgery was like being kicked when I was already down. I asked my PS about delaying reconstruction and he told me the results wouldn't be as good (but we were talking about immediate mx, not lump). I really felt an urge to just have surgery and get it all over with. I did not intend to do chemo before surgery - that was also a factor in my decision, then I had a positive node and that changed my mind.

  • Latte
    Latte Member Posts: 1,072
    edited October 2010

    glad to see a few people on this thread with the same dilemma as me :-)

    my tumor is also directly behind the nipple, and i had neo-adj chemo, and it seems to have disappeared (according to ultrasound - i am still finishing up chemo and will then do a MRI to be sure). I still have to have rads no matter what surgery i decide on.

    I always thought i wanted to have a BMX because I am BRCA1+ (either with delayed or immediate recon), but last night met with BS and PS (separately). BS wants to do a lumpectomy and he wants to try to leave the nipple intact (if there are clear margins, if not then he will need to do another surgery to remove nipple too). He thinks that apart from the possible loss of nipple, my breast will look fine after the lumpectomy, and i can do nipple recon later if i want. PS doesn't think the lumpectomy will leave acceptable results, and is pushing for a BMX. He also said that he doesn't recommend a BMX with delayed recon, because it will be harder for him/me, but instead recommends to delay the BMX and do it with the recon when I am ready.

    I just don't know what to do, especially because I have the added BRCA risk too. Lumpectomy seems to be the easiest option for now, but BMX seems to be the preferred choice for the long term. (2 oncs have both told me that BMX won't increase my life expectancy, because my biggest threat is current cancer moving to stage iV, not a new cancer because of BRCA).

    Any input would be greatly appreciated!

  • Alyad
    Alyad Member Posts: 817
    edited October 2010

    Latte,

    its a hard decision.   My insurance at the time of dx wouldn't pay for BRCA testing, tho i am considering having it now that I have different insurance. I have asked myself what I would do if the results came back positive. I'm not sure. My sex life plays heavily into my decision personally- this is probably TMI, but my remaining nipple is very important to my sex life, I'm not sure if I could adjust to not having any functional nipple at all, so personally I would not remove the other one unless it was cancerous.

    I have often wondered if there was anyway I could have saved the other nipple had I done neoadjuvant chemo, I know even if it was still there physically, having surgery so near to it might have severed/altered sensation anyway. My tumor was small enough neoadjuvant chemo was never discussed as an option- I only opted for the mx instead of lump bc of tumor location.

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited October 2010

    Alyad,

    I'm with you....my left nipple is very important to my sex life.  Tons of sensation there!  However, since my tumour starts under my nipple and extends outward, the surgeon said he would have to cut all the nerve endings with a lumpectomy.  Either with a lumpectomy or skin sparing mx on my left side, I would be left without sensation anyway. This helped with my decision...a lumpectomy would apparently leave a deformed breast and with a skin sparing mx and reconstruction I would look closer to normal.  I read on another thread that a women who had reconstructed nipples still had sensation because it was 'psychological'.  I hope that will be the case with me!

  • Latte
    Latte Member Posts: 1,072
    edited August 2013

    thanmks for the input Alyad and Cat.

    I have been looking for photos of lumpectomies that also removed the nipple that still look good but haven't managed to find any (I was looking on TimTam's site). MSMPatty - you said that yours looked good - any chance that you have posted a photo anywhere i could see? or anyone else who is happy with their nippleless lumpectomy?

  • Alyad
    Alyad Member Posts: 817
    edited October 2010

    TMI is Too Much Information-

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited October 2010

    Hi Latte,

    When I was deciding between a lumpectomy and mx, I too tried to find photos of 'bad' lumpectomies to get an idea of how I would turn out.  There aren't many photos out there.  I saw one sight and if I find it I will send it to you

  • akab
    akab Member Posts: 6
    edited October 2010

    Cat- I had two lumpectomies prior to my BMX.  One in 2002 on my R breast to removed a 5cm phyllodes, and one in 2005 on my L breast to remove a 3cm phyllodes.  Both times they went in through my areola, and while I lost some sensation, I didn't lose all of it.  My scarring was very minimal and my breast looked round and normal a few months after my surgery.  I guess the fat just shifted.  I just had my BMX on 9/23 and I have no feeling in my areola's, nipples, or skin.  The actual process of losing my breast, even though I did have TE's immediately put in (and filled to 360 cc's), so they look pretty normal just a lot smaller than my breasts has been a much more difficult psychological process than I anticipated it to be.  Good Luck to you!

  • Latte
    Latte Member Posts: 1,072
    edited October 2010

    thanks cat and akab!

  • Cat123
    Cat123 Member Posts: 296
    edited December 2010

    Everything turned out fine with my left mx and te....I'm  glad I did it as it turned out that my tumour was much larger that what the MRI indicated.

  • Latte
    Latte Member Posts: 1,072
    edited August 2013

    glad to hear that cat. my lumpectomy also turned out fine, clear margins, and managed to keep the nipple. am dealing with a post surgery infection and seroma, but otherwise all is fine.

  • jmo1020
    jmo1020 Member Posts: 5
    edited November 2017

    Hi,

    I just joined this site, and am not sure how exactly to post a question. But, this topic seems to be similar to the situation I am dealing with right now and any advice or input would be helpful. I am 36 years old and diagnosed with DCIS. The past two months have felt like I have been living a nightmare. I had my lumpectomy on 10/31/17 to remove the DCIS. This all started because I was going to get a breast augmentation and they found this in the baseline mammo and then ultrasound. From there I had 6 biopsies between both breast (sterotactic, needle aspiration, and ultrasound guided). From there I also had an MRI. I have been told my breast are extremely dense and busy. Met with plastic surgeon yesterday as well as oncologist. Both saying there is no way possible I could have an augmentation. There is too much of a risk involved. My surgeon had explained that if I had needed a mastectomy it would be skin sparring. I am at a point, if all these doctors are telling me I am at such a high risk of developing cancer again: Why would I keep these breasts? I have to meet with a radiation specialists next week as well. The thought of radiation scares me. This has just become too much and mentally I can't take it anymore. The worrying and fears are taking over my life. I've lost 12 pounds already from stress. I'm 5'3 and already petite. My next concern is even if I decided on the mastectomy, is insurance going to give me a hard time. Any advice would be helpful at this point because I am literally loosing my mind.




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