Anyone skip radiation after lumpectomy and chemo for stage 1?

laynetx
laynetx Member Posts: 11
Anyone skip radiation after lumpectomy and chemo for stage 1?

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  • laynetx
    laynetx Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2010

    Because of pre-existing health conditions (type 2 diabetes, fibromyalgia, complications of carpel tunnel in both arms) and my age, 61, I am receiving Cytoxin and Taxotere (4 rounds, no Adriamycin) as followup to removal of a 1.7 cm, stage1, grade 3, node negative TN tumor from my left breast on June 3rd. I was very wary of chemo but seem to be tolerating it okay. (Thank you, Lord!)

    I am considering not doing radiation because I already have significant neuropathy and some loss of function in both of my arms, and the risk of some of the side effects (esp. lymphedema) makes me very nervous, particularly since the future burden would be on my weaker arm. I am single and have to be able to take care of myself. I'm a big believer in complementary medicine and I'm thinking that if I'm vigilent about lifestyle changes and followup, and continue to work with my internist who uses integrative med, my chances of long-term survival even without rads are as good as anyone's. I don't want to be foolish about this, but I've only found one study that even addressed skipping rads, and it actually indicated slightly more favorable long-term survival with only surgery and chemo, but it was a fairly small study.

    Help! I need some input from other TN's. There is such a thing as quality of life! Has anyone else had success doing it this way?

    Actually, I think that study was on lump with rads only, not including chemo, v. lump/rads/chemo...sorry!

  • Twinmom77
    Twinmom77 Member Posts: 303
    edited August 2010

    laynetx - hi, I'm not TN but I considered skipping rads too because I was terrified of the possible se's. Being into more alternative meds, I was convinced the chemo had done enough to toxify my body and I didn't want to put my body through more.  However, I was working with an ND and he suggested I give it a try and he could give me specific supplements to help my body cope with radiation.  So I did 7 weeks of rads without a hitch and had virtually no side effects.  I know you have other health concerns to deal with too, so our situations don't really compare.  But I thought it might be helpful to know that I was considering skipping it too. If you decide to go ahead you might want to ask your internist for things that will support you during rads and cut down on se's.  Good luck on your decision.

  • LRM216
    LRM216 Member Posts: 2,115
    edited August 2010

    I am TN, was diagnosed at age 62 and as you can see by my stats below, very similar to yours.  Your choice is certainly your own, and while I understand your thoughts, fears, etc., I just want to say that the cancer we have is a very sneaky and agressive cancer and you only get one chance at hitting it as hard as you can.  I know many diabetics that had no side effects whatsoever from it, and I know of no one that has gotten lymphedema from the rads.  That is not to say that they are not out there, but I am just telling you what I know.  Two friends of mine went through it, and one has MS with heart problems and also did just fine.  I found it to me very boring and a pain in the neck actually, to get there every dang day (I am a widow and must work full time), undress, wait to be called, and lay there for a big 2 minutes or so.  I did start to burn in my 5th week, but no blistering or anything ugly at all.  I itched for a week or so and peeled like a sunburn, but only a little and within a short period of time, it was all gone.  Just thought I'd give you my personal perspective of it and hope that it helps a bit.

    Whatever way you decide to go, I wish you all the best.  I hate this freaking disease with a passion and all that it changes for each and every one of us.

     edited to add - I have carpal tunnel too and the rads didn't effect it all.

  • eileen1955
    eileen1955 Member Posts: 365
    edited August 2010

    laynetex; I can only tell you my experience to add to the others.    I had chemo and rads after lumpectomy.     That was 7 yrs ago and my breast has been so irradiated that it has no sensation as a breast.      I take vicodin for yearly mammo of that breast; I cannot tell you the incredible pain I experience during the compression,  I almost passed out oncel another time I vomited from the pain.                             If I had it to do over again, I would have had mastectomy with chemo.                 the only caveat I have to offer is that I am fair-skinned, green eyed redhead who never should have been sent for radiation,    No one seems to do a screening process before the radiation. whe I finished and complained, i was told that it was natural for me to have a rubbery,excruciatingly painful deformed breast b/c of my skin color, duh?    I wish you well in your journey,

  • Twinmom77
    Twinmom77 Member Posts: 303
    edited August 2010

    Oh my gosh eileen, that's horrible!  I'm so sorry that happened to you.  They never said anything about a rubbery, painful breast to me and I am extremely fair skinned and I burn horribly.  I'm glad they didn't cause I would have turned around and walked out right then and there!  I was terrified I would burn to a crisp but they told me everyone reacts differently, so it just depends I guess.  Now I'm wondering if the things I was taking really did keep the bad se's at bay.

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited August 2010

    I'm in a different situation than you, and of course, everyone has different reactions to any treatment; but for me, after chemo, radiation was a piece of cake. Other than getting tired of driving to the clinic every day for 6 weeks (a two hundred mile round trip!!!), and getting a little red at the end, I had absolutely no SEs at all. Remember the reason you do radiation is to get rid of any lingering cancer cells in the area. If some are still lurking around, all the lifestyle and diet changes in the world aren't going to help, and you will be dealing with cancer again (certainly lifestyle and diet can lower the chances of reoccurence, but first you have to be sure that you've done everything you can to be cancer free from the original problem). I'd go for the knock out NOW! Best of Luck! Ruth

  • Titan
    Titan Member Posts: 2,956
    edited September 2010

    laynetx..I don't know what to tell you..but have you talked to your onc about skipping treatment? I was told that if I didn't have any treatment after my lump I would have a 30% chance of reoccurence...with chemo and rads it was down to 12%....certainly there should be some treatment out there that will cooperate with your other associated health issues.

  • MsBliss
    MsBliss Member Posts: 536
    edited September 2010

    I am a stage 1, triple negative.  I think every case is individual and the risk factors are different for everyone.  As I have mentioned before, I did not do chemo or rads because of secondary health issues.  I am almost 18 months out now with clean scans and tests; but my oncologist has reluctantly offered that in my case the cell was such a aggressive one it would have probably roared back by now if it was still lurking about as it was growing at a phenomenal rate. 

    I land on both sides of the fence here.  First the anti rad rant:  In my opinion, after reading the peer review literature, I think that rads are often over sold.  The statistics that radiologists give women for risk reduction with rads are "rubber" numbers that are not absolute but relative; the actual numbers are not as great per individual as one might think.  Further to this, for now, oddly,  my radiologist and oncologist are not reporting my case to the database because I did not have any treatment, so I will not be included in the new statistics! 

    That being said, now the pro rad:  for some, the risk reduction is still significant with rads and worth it for peace of mind and specific issues inherent in the case.  Plus, if you do supportive care and take good care of your health, eat cleanly, take D3 and curcumin, you may sail through the therapy with no side effects at all!  You can always start the process and see how your body reacts--if it is too intolerable you can stop.  This was an option given to me. 

  • Titan
    Titan Member Posts: 2,956
    edited September 2010

    Good post MsBliss...I'm glad to hear that you are almost 18 mos. out w/o any issues...I will be 20 mos. out on Sept 20th....with no issues...I keep track on my calendar...and I had dd ac and taxol..but there really are no guarantees....I really didn't want chemo/rads but I did it

  • MsBliss
    MsBliss Member Posts: 536
    edited September 2010

    Hi Titan--I was diagnosed at almost the same time as you (early March 09).  So we are both on the same track I guess!  It's good to hear you are "issue free" too!  I almost did chemo but the secondary risks were pretty high for me and rads were delayed so long that it gave diminishing returns.  I have my good moments when I feel that the fear is abated, then it creeps back in....ugh.     

  • bubbalu
    bubbalu Member Posts: 177
    edited September 2010

    Hi Ladies:  I am new to your post and don't really fit the description 100%, but here's my story and I tell it with the hope that you can give me some insight.  I am 70 years young.  Was diagnosed with BC 12/09.  I am TN.  Had chemo (4AC/4Taxtore), followed by a LMX and started rads 4 weeks post surgery.  I am Grade 3.  The chemo was 97% successful and the surgery was with clear margins and 12 LN were removed, 6 positive.  Here's the dilema now.  I had 4 rad tx and immediately got a very bad burn on my neck/chin where I'm not being radiated, supposedly.

    This is a site of past sun damaged skin and past sunburns, being in the pre-sunscreen era and every year a trip to the beach.  My rad onc says that it's a skin infection (wrong) but I know burns when I feel them.  It even peeled!  He says that as soon as it clears up we will try again but if it happens again we will have to 'talk' about the rads.  I need 33.  I'm guessing that means forego them.

    I'm also aware that burning in the radiated area will occur and I'm prepared to do that - but not where I'm not being radiated like my neck and chin.  Another thread I'm on told a story of a women whose jaw bone was so weakened from the rads that her jaw broke!!  Why is this being directed at the face?

    I'm fully aware that I need the rads to reduce my chance of reoccurence to 10% from 30% over the next 10 years, but I had a LMX with clear margins. 

    I'm going for a second opinion on Wed. but I'm wondering how important are the rads and why can't they put something over the neck area to protect it?  They don't seem to be interested in cooperating with health/body issues.

    Thanks for reading and I have to tell you these threads have gotten me through nine months of tough times...........................we have to stick together and hold each other up.

  • laynetx
    laynetx Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2010

    Hi bubbalu, sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with your treatment. I also have a lot of questions about how radiation is used. I didn't have trouble with the balloon radiation idea when that was an option, but they had to take out more because of another benign tumor, and the pending whole breast/armpit thing seems to have a lot of risks. Your situation with the MX and 6 positive nodes is diffirent than mine, though, so I'm glad you're getting a second opinion

    My understanding is, the 10%/30% figure the onc's give you is for surgery/rads/and chemo after a lump, not just for surgery and chemo. I thought with an MX in early stage, you didn't usually need rads, or is that old protocol or different for tnbc? Exactly how much difference does the rads make if you're node neg, clear margins and stage 1/2? Do they even know? I can't find it! I guess because radiation is "automaticially" given with a lump, they haven't bothered to keep stats on the few who haven't done rads. Sounds like you have reasonable doubts, as I do. I just want MORE INFORMATION so I can make an informed decision...Is that too much to ask?

    I'll keep you in my prayers - Good luck!

  • laynetx
    laynetx Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2010

    Took a few days off from the boards and research 'cause I was feeling overwhelmed. Still haven't found anything that would change my mind about skipping the rads. I'm not making a final decision till I see the med onc and rad onc next week, but I have a lot of questions! Does it get any easier once treatment is done?

  • Elayne
    Elayne Member Posts: 5
    edited January 2011

    Hi Bubbalu!

    I am the exact diagnosis as you! Lumpectomy clear margins, A/C and 6 positive nodes! (all my 17 were remved in axilla area) followed by 12 wks. Taxol.  Cea test last 0.5.  Now I am so shook up about to radiation! What did you decide upon after your effect to your chin and neck?  Is the place you are going to ACR accredited?? that is important.  I hope you are doing well my friend.  Hope to hear from you soon.

  • Titan
    Titan Member Posts: 2,956
    edited January 2011

    There have been some studies done that a lump with rads is better than a masectomy..look into those studies or ask your onc.

    I ha 25 rads plus 7 boosts...I'm over a year out from rads and I have absolutely NO se's from rads..nothing...everyone's circumstances are different..well aware of that...but maybe give them a try???

  • echo-on-the-lake
    echo-on-the-lake Member Posts: 14
    edited January 2011

    Hi Elayne

    I had a lumpectomy w/chemo and rads. The rads were a breeze for me compared to chemo. The only side effect I had with the rads was being tired after about the 3rd week. The tiredness stayed around for quite a few months. Nothing debilitating....just lacking a bit of energy.

    I am fair-skinned, green eyed & have always burned easily in the sun.I have to say that although I did get red, I wasn't burned. I did have a cream to put on several times a day. Some of the other women did burn but they said it felt just like a regular sunburn and that the cream helped.

    As to bubbalu's situation....Personally I would be concerned that the machine had not been adjusted right as the ONLY area that should have any possibility of getting burned would be the site that was being radiated. Because my tumor was in an unusual place and hard to get at & not radiate something that didn't need to be, I had to go in twice for my body mold. That was the worst part of the whole thing---being fitted for that body mold. It's extremely important when being radiated that you NOT move one tiny bit once they have you situated. If you move, you throw off where the beam is going to hit. 

    Being TN I would NOT encourage anyone to forgo the radiation.  Especially since you had positive nodes. I totally agree with ruthbru!  If one tiny piece had broken off your tumor and was sitting there in your breast, it's gonna come back fast! Why would you take that chance? Yeah, they can take out the tumor & have clean margins but they can't be 100% certain that a speck hadn't already broken off.  And that's all it takes...one tiny microscopic speck!

    As others have already stated, you can always stop at any time, although I would not recommend it. 

    Please let us know how things went if you decide to do the rads (which I sincerely hope you will!)

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