Herceptin Only?

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Random987
Random987 Member Posts: 7

My 72 year old mother was just diagnosed with Stage T-1a. ER/PR negative, HER2 positive. Ki-67 at 15%. It was originally thought as only DCis, but they found "microscopic foci of invasive disease" largest about 4mm.

 She has had two unsuccessful lumpectomies and she has decided to have a mastectomy.  Her oncologist recommends chemotherapy followed by Herceptin.  ALthough she is healty, I am worried about the side effects and the long term effect of chemo on a 72 year old woman. 

Is there any benefit for doing Herceptin only (no chemo)?  Any studies showing effectiveness? Or does it only work in conjunction with chemo?

Thanks

Comments

  • ruthbru
    ruthbru Member Posts: 57,235
    edited August 2010

    A friend of mine, who is in her mid-60s with a Stage 1 tumor, did Herceptin only. Herceptin was the 'big gun' for her. Adding chemo only raised her chances of non-reoccurence by another 2%. Both she and her oncologist felt that the possible risks did not outweigh the benefits at her age/stage/grade. (She is, however, ER positive and on an anti-hormonal). Talk to the oncologist about how much benefit the chemo would add before she makes her decisions.

  • ElaineD
    ElaineD Member Posts: 2,265
    edited August 2010

    Herceptin is given alongside chemo-and then continued on it's own for up to a year. I really don't think your Mum would be able to have it in isolation.

  • bluedasher
    bluedasher Member Posts: 1,203
    edited August 2010

    There are no studies on Herceptin alone in early stage cancer, but there are very few studies done on stage Ia anyway and very few done on treatment for someone in their 70s. It was only recently that there was a retrospective study showing how high the recurrence is for HER2+ in stage Ia and Ib. Herceptin does pretty well in stopping the progression of Stage IV cancer so there is probably some benefit from using it alone when chemo would be too hard to tolerate.

    Herceptin by itself is pretty easy to tolerate. The side effects are very low but the heart has to be monitored because it can occasionally lower LVEF. 

    Treatment for someone in your mothers age group is a judgement call and I think that what her onc is suggesting is a reasonable course of action. A healthy 72 is young enough that the 5 year recurrence risk for HER2+ stage Ia or Ib is a concern (about 23% with about 15% distant recurrence) but chemo might be too hard to tolerate for someone that age. Herceptin alone is a compromise between the risks of doing nothing and doing chemo. 

  • Denny123
    Denny123 Member Posts: 1,886
    edited August 2010

    Herceptin alone for the last 6 years has kept my liver mets in remission.  So the stuff must be really good with very few side effects.

    My heart ejection fraction has gone done to 45%-50%, so now I have to worry a bit, but am hoping that if I lose weight, that it will help.

     Denise

  • bluedasher
    bluedasher Member Posts: 1,203
    edited August 2010

    When looking up something else for a friend, I stumbled across this:

    http://www.cancer.gov/search/ViewClinicalTrials.aspx?cdrid=671276&version=HealthProfessional&protocolsearchid=8049743 

    Apparently there is a clinical trial in Japan looking at Herceptin only for elderly women. The study started late 2009 so it won't have results for years. 

  • LuvRVing
    LuvRVing Member Posts: 4,516
    edited August 2010

    I think you should run the numbers through the cancer math site then determine if the risks from chemo on your mom are worth the "reward".  I realize these are statistics, but if the cancer is removed, your mom will most likely live another 15 years if no other action is taken (about 91% likely).  I would not want my mom to endure chemo for such a small benefit.  Just my two cents worth...

    http://www.lifemath.net/cancer/breastcancer/therapy/index.php

    Michelle

  • bluedasher
    bluedasher Member Posts: 1,203
    edited August 2010

    There is also a study of Herceptin only for women 65 and older that is based in Ohio that started in November 2008:

    http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00796978 

    Michelle, getting Herceptin alone isn't chemo and doesn't have anything like the side effects of chemo. I'm also skeptical about the calculations in Lifemath for early HER2+ tumors because the recurrence that MD Anderson found in their 2008 retrospective study of node negative <1cm HER2+ tumors was higher than previously estimated and metastatic recurrence was a really high proportion compared to HER2- hormone positive or tripple negative. Lifemath's calculations don't seem to have changed to take those results into account.

  • worldwatcher
    worldwatcher Member Posts: 205
    edited August 2010

    So, what would be the numbers in my case of doing rads and then Herceptin alone? My Ki-67 is 8%.

    I am 71 and am pretty firmly against chemo.

    I had one radiology onc predict my five-year survival as good with radiation and a hormonal, but he is not a medical onc so I don't know what his opinion would mean..

  • GAgirl01
    GAgirl01 Member Posts: 61
    edited August 2010

    Bluedasher~Hope you can help me...I just was reading up on some of your info.  I'm a younger lady who is ER-/PR-,HER+ also and am on a current clinical trial of 12 wks (weekly) of Taxol/Herceptin.  I've had 6 treatments and the last 2wks I've had severe symptoms of neuropathy to the point that my Onc. Dr. called it quits on the Taxol today.  She said my toxicity levels were at their peak for my body and that whe was concerned at the damaged if we continued.  We are going to continue with Herceptin from here on out for the remainder of a  year.  My question is, I am less then 1cm and node neg. I also had a bmx in May.(clear margins) I just am concerned that I havent done enough chemo.  I know there are no guarantees, but being HER2+ makes me more concerned.

  • bluedasher
    bluedasher Member Posts: 1,203
    edited August 2010

    Gina, no one knows the numbers for doing just Herceptin and even the tests that have started with it are for Stage I node negative.

    GAgirl, what I have posted is pretty much what I know - the numbers for stage I without chemo from MD Anderson and the numbers for TCH node negative from BCIRG 006. The trial of Taxol and Herceptin hasn't published any results yet - it is still early for that. I'm expecting that it will do pretty well and that even having had half the Taxol and continuing the Herceptin might have most of the benefit, but we don't know. You do what you can and it sounds like your onc has done that. Recurrence with no chemo would have been around 23% for recurrence over 5 years and your treatment should have improved on that.

  • Random987
    Random987 Member Posts: 7
    edited August 2010

    Thanks for all of the thoughtful responses.  My mother met with her oncologist who stated that the recurrence rate is about 20% and with the HER2+ there is an increased risk of a distant met.  He suggests doing a carboplatin/taxol chemo followed by Herceptin.  I think the chemo treatments take place every 3-4 weeks for 3-4 months.  Given the 20% recurrence rate, I think my Mom has decided to try the chemo. 

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