Chemo Decision
Comments
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Hello, anyone out there! I've never been in a discussion forum before, so please forgive me if I'm doing it wrong.
I am post-mastectomy, IDC (with widespread DCIS also), Stage IIb, Grade 2, 1 affected node, with an Oncotype score of 14, but some scary prognostic factors on the pathology report (lymph-vascular invasion, nuclear grade 3, extensive necrosis, Extensive Intraductal Component, etc.). My tumor was small (1.1 cm), but actually my surgical oncologist was discouraged by this, saying that the fact that such a small early cancer had made it into the lymph system at all is a little disconcerting.
My dilemma is that I've now seen four medical oncologists, two of whom have recommended AC→T, and the other two of whom have recommended TC x 4. My favorite doc among the bunch, who is totally amazing in terms of her thoroughness, attentiveness, expertise, attention to detail (especially regarding some other health/psychiatric issues I have), and just her all-around ability to form mutually respectful and personable doctor-patient relationships, is one who recommends TC x 4. Since the beginning, I have felt a pull toward the more aggressive AC→T, but she feels that it would be overtreatment in my case, based on my low-risk oncotype score --and will only agree to TC x 4. I talked with her about TC x 6, and while she agreed that it would be a wonderful solution to this dilemma, she said she can't do it because it's not yet approved by the NCCN for my type of cancer. She said she was sorry, but she is bound by her practice rules to stay within NCCN Practice Guidelines. Plus, she said I would run a very high risk of my insurance not covering those last two Tx's.
I'm wondering if anyone out there has faced this same dilemma, and how you made your decision. I'm also wondering, for those of you who are doing TC x 6, how are you doing it? Have you had trouble with insurance? How are doc's "getting away with" treating patients with a regimen that is not an approved treatment?
Thanks for any replies.
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With an oncotype score of 14, I don't see why you're pushing for the strongest possible chemo, which, if you are very unlucky, could cause you to die of congestive heart failure. TC is a very potent chemo, and while it has side effects, none of them are potentially fatal.
The NCCN guidelines are merely recommendations which establish a "standard of practice" within which oncos can operate safely. No one can sue a doctor for malpractice if s/he stays within those guidelines. That does not keep more daring doctors from experimenting, because NCCN has no enforcement power.
I see a lot of overtreatment going on out there, often because patients are terrified by the diagnosis, and are even willing to risk their lives to be sure that they've done everything possible.
Your favorite onc sounds like a wise and reasonable person who is keeping up with her field. I'd trust her.
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Seabee,
Thanks for your response. I guess I was conflicted about it because I had two oncologists recommend AC→T because the pathology report indicated a more aggressive cancer than the Oncotype score did, and because I am on the young side (39). But I have decided to stick with the doc I liked best and the TC regimen.
Thanks again.
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I think you've made a good choice. If it will make you feel any better, the Oncotype DX score is arguably more reliable than your path report because it is based on sophisticated scientific analysis of the individual tumor rather than rough classification of tissue based on observation. I have just been looking at the latest NCCN guidelines, and they have been modified considerably from what they were just two years ago, with the Oncotype test playing a central role in the treatment recommendations for invasive breast cancer. The two oncs who recommended AC+T seem to me go be relying on slightly earlier guidelines, and this is not uncommon, because oncology is a rapidly evolving field.This flux can be very confusing for patients suddenly forced to make critical treatment decisions.
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Thanks again, Seabee. I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my decision now. And, yes, I do understand that the Oncotype test is objective, rather relying on a pathologist's subjective interpretations. It probably would have helped if it had been the first two docs who recommended TC x 4, but the first two were the ones who recommended ACT, and they were from a highly ranked cancer center in Chicago, whereas the two who recommended TC were both in non-teaching, albeit high quality, community hospitals. Although I sometimes think that for people who don't have rare or hard to treat cancers and aren't interested in clinical trials, the high-ranking, research-focused, cancer centers can be a little over-emphasized. Despite having some tough decisions to make along the way, and conflicting recommendations, I have been very impressed by the quality of care I have received in the community-based hospital where I have received my Tx so far.
Now I'm just ready for the Tx's to start. Was supposed to be this week, but has been postponed for Monday. (Because of other health issues, Doc A had to talk to Doc B about medication complications/contraindications, but Doc B has been on vacation. Yawn!) I'm six weeks post second surgery, and three months post Dx, and still waiting for my first infusion. I'm ready for that emotional flip to be switched from, "there's all this research to do, tests to have, results to wait for, time to heal, and hard decisions to make, etc." to "ok, this may not be how I want to spend my time, and this may be hard, but at least I know that now I am actively fighting this disease." Ya' know?
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It often happens that people who are well established in their fields (and have not made the discovery themselves) are most resistant to changes in guidelines and procedures. That might apply in this case.
I'm glad you're feeling more confident and in control. That usually occurs after people settle on a definite treatment plan.
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Hi there
I am new to this site. Just got diagnosed on my pre-40 mammo. Similar to yours, wide DCIS with IDC, stage 1, grade 3, hormone neg, HER2+, no nodes. Just had a bilateral mastectomy week and half ago. I am curious about our treatment because my onc told me that I can just also choose the TC )taxotere & carboplatin but also with Herceptin due to HER2+ but she said guidelines indicate 6 cycles, not 4. I am confused about the number of cycles.
I pray that you have made the right decision. Hope all goes well with you.
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Emster,
I have also been told TC 4 times. My reason is my Oncotype DX test came up 24, even though my tumor info looks good. Did you have the Oncotype test done? It really is being used by the Dr. in my case to decide treatment. Before the results came back it was just assumed I would not need chemo.
Karen
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Emster, I had Taxotere, Carboplatin and Herceptin. The TC was for 6 rounds. I was so disappointed when I found out it would be 6 instead of 4. But i lived through the 6 rounds--in fact chemo was much less difficult than I anticipated. Be sure to talk to your oncologist about getting a port since you will be on Herceptin for a year. Good luck with your decision process.
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Thanks everyone for sharing your input. It really helps, as you all know.
Karen- Is that taxotere and carboplatin that you got or will get 4 times? I am not sure I did the oncotype but will be sure to ask next week. Maybe mine is due to being HER2+. I just don't know enough. I didn't think I would need chemo either in the beginning. Feel great, healed really nice from mx so will not start chemo probably til end of Sept or early Oct. Have you started already?
Cowgirl- Soo happy you are done and that it wasn't that bad for you. That must be such a relief. It seems like it will be the longest couple months ever. Yes, I will look into the port. A year with that seems so lone. I am glad you were node negative too. I am going to try the Penguin Cold cap thing to try and save my hair if I can.
Did any of you guys do the pet scan thing?
Thanks for everything. God has sent me a strong sense of peace with whatever will come next. Just want to be around for a long time!
Emmy
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Emster,
Yes I will be getting taxotere and carboplatin. I see you are HER2+ so you will need the herceptin for a year as well. I don't think you can do the oncotype dx test being er-/pr- I think it's only for positive tumors. No I haven't started yet. My Dr. is leaving it up to me and will see her on the 22nd of this month. Now I have to decide do I need a port or not. I know I only need 4 treatment, but what about other times they will be drawing my blood. I will need to talk to the Dr. about this. My BS had planned on putting one in at the time of surgery if lympnodes had been involved, but felt chemo would not be needed. Just goes to show you how little they seem to know about this darn cancer.
karen
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