Diagnosed with multifocal DCIS BUT...

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CandDsMom
CandDsMom Member Posts: 387

Hi All-

I need some advice and some input.  I was diagnosed with multifocal ER/PR negative DCIS back at the end of March after a mammogram showed a 7mm cluster of microcysts (9o'clock position subareolar) and a 3mm (12 o'clock position subareolar) cluster of microcysts in the R breast.  I was labeled BIRADS-3 but insisted on a biopsy against medical advice which both showed intermediate grade DCIS.

Subsequent MRI showed an abnormal appearing 8x7x9cm mass along the right upper outer quadrant AND a 1.1 cm area with "suspicious kinetics" at the 12 o'clock position subareolar not in the same place as the original biopsy.  My MRI was "BIRADS-4" and an MRI guided biopsy was recommended.  I declined this as I had decided on a BMX which was scheduled for the next week (and I knew in my heart there was at least more DCIS in there if not frank IDC).  

In fact, I was expected to have IDC per discussion with my oncologist.  I got the port talk, etc prior to my surgery in anticipation of needing chemo postop.

Post operatively I was thrilled when my oncologist came into my room and said - it is all non-invasive DCIS.  However when I got my hands on my pathology report it mentioned that 11 slides were done of my 2000gram breast (this is roughly a 4.4 lb breast).  There were 4 slides done of the suspicious 8cm area - which was seen on the gross examination as being "widespread, ill defined and slightly nodular suspicious area."  4 of these showed small amounts DCIS - the largest single focus was 5-6mm.  FYI 11 slides were done of my left "prophylactic" side as well - so really just a survey look.

I have been asking all along - is 11 slides of this 8cm area enough and was the 1.1cm area really looked at.  I was assured that the pathologist "looked at everything."  I asked for a 2nd opinion and Mayo concurred with the diagnosis on the slides.  I asked for a 3rd opinion from Dr. Lagios and he also concurred with the diagnosis on the slides.  I was told by my onc that I was presented at tumor board and my MRI and path were specifically brought up side to side and everyone was satisfied with the DCIS diagnosis.

HOWEVER, when I asked Dr. Lagios if what was done for me (11 slides) was "sufficient" to rule out microinvasion or even IDC he said no (!!!).  Words like "shortcuts were taken" were used.  He said if he had processed my original sample he would have done perhaps 120 slides!

What makes it worse is that my NCI center threw out my mastectomy specimen and specimen blocks!!! So now there is no way to go back through the tissue.

I am stunned, devastated and having major anxiety.  I am in the position of "was expected to have more extensive disease" and then told I was fine however it now seems that no one really bothered to look!  My children are now 1 and 3 and I am just terrified about the future.  I realize no one can know anything for sure with this disease but I thought that at least I could take comfort in that the best look was done that could be done.  I am kicking myself for not having the MRI guided biopsies before BMX surgery now...

I am going to see a Mayo oncologist for a 2nd opinion next week but has anyone heard of this happening?  It seems highly possible that I could have had a missed IDC that I need chemo for - and I don't want to find this out 2 years or 5 years from now!!

Ladies, if you had a MX or BMX (especially if you had multifocal or multicentric DCIS) and you have your path reports handy - how many slides did you have done?  When I read the DCIS statistics for 5 year survival post BMX - 98-99% this is great however another way to read this is that 1-2 women per 100 die at 5 years from invasive cancer possibly due to a missed diagnosis at the beginning? Is this the dirty secret of the DCIS diagnosis??!!!

edited for spelling error 

Comments

  • 3monstmama
    3monstmama Member Posts: 1,447
    edited July 2010

    First, I'm not in exactly your situation---I had a lumpectomy plus a re-do followed by radiation.  I have to say, given your size, I would have expected more slides as well. I know its hard when you have kids [I'm there too] but I think you need to try to trust your doctors. Remember, you will be watched like a hawk these next years.  I suspect that the women with DCIS who later die from invasive may not have followed up as much as they should or they decided to do other than what is recommended. I have known women who died of breast cancer who refused treatment--like surgery in the first place or rads or chemo.  And I know it can be hard to follow up the way you should.  I know that right now I am in a place where I want to hide my head under my pillow and not see another doctor for ever.  But I know that for my kids, I can't do that, I have to keep going to my appointments and be watchful.

    It caught my eye that your nodes were clear.  Perhaps that is part of the reason why everyone is more comfortable with the diagnois?

    I hope you get more helpful responses.

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited July 2010

    CandDsMom ~ I'm not exactly in your situation either, except that I had multicentric disease with some DCIS (but invasive also dx'd from a bx, lumpectomy & MRI) and a mast.  But your post caught my attention, so I decided to check my pathology report to see how many slides were done.  I'm not sure how much 2000 grs. of breast tissue is, but they did 57 slides for my 36C breast, and "extensive sectioning" is mentioned.  So it does sound like your pathology was short-cutted.  And it also seems incredulous that they threw out the specimens.  I had no idea they didn't keep them, at least long enough to be sure there weren't future needs, such as Oncotype testing.  Are you absolutely sure they were thrown out, and that they weren't just using that as an excuse not to look locate them for you?  If they were discarded, do you know if this is that facility's policy, what all facilities do, or a mistake?  It would be interesting to know to round out the picture.

    As far as the woulda, coulda, shoulda thoughts, I think that's something we all go through in thinking about the care we got and what we might have done differently had we only known.  But it's really fruitless because we can't go back and change anything that's already happened.  All we can do is arm ourselves with the best information we can find and move forward, dealing with what is.  I'm really glad you're going to the Mayo Clinic, and I hope the caliber of doctors there will help you sort through your experience, as well as move forward with confidence.  I hope and pray that the chances they missed something are miniscule, and that the docs at Mayo can reassure you of this.    Deanna

  • CandDsMom
    CandDsMom Member Posts: 387
    edited July 2010

    I am pretty sure everything is gone - Dr. Lagios called the hospital and spoke to the pathologist directly and my PCP went down to surg path to check - everyone says samples are discarded 2-4 weeks post final path report coming through.  Also the research bank which I had okayed some sample to go to doesn't have anything either.  I just can't believe this is happening.  Thanks so much for your posts...

  • gep
    gep Member Posts: 5
    edited July 2010

    My situation was similar to yours. I was diagnosed on original biopsy with DCIS grade 3 w/comedonecrosis "microinvasion could not be ruled out." I also had multifocal (two separate quadrants on biopsy) I was told by the surgeon who is very experienced (major cancer center in a large city) that a mastectomy was indicated. The radiation oncologist who originally consulted drew me little pictures of a small invasion tucked alongside the DCIS to show me what was probably going on. I was hormone negative and terrified.  I went on to have a total mastectomy (unilateral) with SNB (4 removed) .All negative. I should also mention I originally noticed a lump which is what started the ball rolling for me. In the end I too had only DCIS, extensive, with absolutely no microinvasion, etc...I was happily surprised. They did a total of 25 slides on the mastectomy specimin and 5 additional on extra skin the PS cut away during reconstruction, as well as 10 more on the other breast which was cosmetically reduced. ) I also had very large breasts (no longer-thankfully) I am no expert but over 100 slides sounds very unusual (what that one expert quoted you)  I am pretty sure the number of slides I had done is about average. The large cancer center I was treated at seems to do everything "by the book" almost to a fault.

    I am shocked about them throwing away the slides. I thought they were kept for a long time in case you need access in the future. Now I will ask about my hospital's policy. Take Care

  • sweatyspice
    sweatyspice Member Posts: 922
    edited July 2010

    I had multicentric disease and a reduction, not a mast.  Due to where the areas were located and the fact that at the time, I had large breasts, I was able to do this.

    Relevant highlights of my path report: 

    Breast, right, 6 o'clock, summary:  .....DCIS is seen in 2 slides of a total of 49 slides........

    Breast, right, 11 o'clock, summary:  .....DCIS is seen in 3 slides of a total of 34 slides......

    The left breast was reduced to match, and they did send 420 grams of it to pathology, but I can't figure out how many slides they made of that breast's tissue....

    I can't believe they threw out your specimen!  I thought they lept that stuff forever!!!  I'm so sorry!!!!!!!

  • CandDsMom
    CandDsMom Member Posts: 387
    edited July 2010

    So, went to Mayo this week.  I was amazed at how efficient everything there is!  I waited less than 5 mins for my labs, etc to be drawn.

    Anyway, the Mayo docs are looking into the whole thing and will get back to me next week.  I did feel somewhat reassured in that the Mayo onc said the error in the path would have to have been pretty big (missing a 4-5mm + invasive focus) to have changed my management but on the other hand, if that big an error was made, I would probably be in trouble since I would be undertreated assuming any IDC that springs from my DCIS is ER (-).  But only time will tell since no follow up is recommended other than clinical breast exam of my free TRAM reconstruction every 6 months(!)

    So still mixed feelings about the whole thing.  FYI, I have inquired at several other centers (I am in health care field so used contacts I know at outside institutions) and was told from one major center my path was also insufficient and from the other, it was probably sufficient but minimally so.  Not super encouraging but I will wait to see what Mayo says.  Interestingly, all 3 (inc Mayo) say my tissue blocks (not the gross specimen) are supposed to be preserved so I am hoping we can find them and look through them again.

    Just wanted to say thank you to all who responded and to all who read these boards in general.  Having the advice of others and just knowing there are other women out there who can understand what is going on is helpful.  So thank you thank you thank you.

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