Feeling Guilty about Drinking

Otter- very well said! I agree!

I had a major think about wine when ending chemo. Anyway, things turn out to be more nuanced than reported intially:

http://www.ecancermedicalscience.com/tv/video-by-category.asp?play=364&cid=5&scid=0&q=

As indifferent as to where my risk comes from, I have resumed drinking wine, but less than prior to diagnosis.  Unlike some of you, I find that wine is one of my great pleasures in life, and I love visiting wine bars and trying flights of from the latest wineries in Washington State. 

I also love microbrew, but do that more of that when cycling (along with visiting bakeries).

Love the chandelier story....way to go!!! 

Fortunately, was able to "partake" in those activities even when couldn't drink wine   (Arimidex doesn't seem to slow me down that way either.)

I recognize the need to keep my weight down, and maintain via exercise.  So right now training for the Seattle-to-Portland Bicycle Classic where the problem is eating ENOUGH to do the 200+ miles in 2 days.

So much more fun than giving up life's pleasures.

Yes, I think moderation is the answer, just use some common sense in all areas and then not dwell on it; otherwise you will drive yourself crazy!!!

SV, I understand what you're saying and why you are saying it.

FWIW, I did ask my oncologist, and she told me a small glass of wine a day would probably not hurt me.  That was fairly near the beginning of my 4 rounds of Taxotere & Cytoxan; and we haven't discussed it since then.

There are mixed opinions in the medical literature about exactly how much alcohol intake increases the risk of BC.  And, when we weigh that "modifiable" risk factor against all the others -- being overweight, not exercising regularly, smoking, taking HRT, not taking the tamoxifen or AI our oncos have prescribed for us, deciding against chemo (if given that choice), ... who knows?  For most of us, all those things I've listed would add a few points here or there to the absolute risk of BC or its recurrence.

OTOH, for some of us, the lifetime risk of cardiovascular disease was, and still is, way higher than the risk of another encounter with BC.  Some of us have not had problems with alcohol in the past; so we have no particular reason to abstain from light social drinking, except for this pesky threat of a BC recurrence.  Given all the odds favoring and against drinking, and given the enjoyment gained from sipping a glass of wine socially or with dinner, some women have decided to accept the risk and enjoy the wine (or other adult beverage of their choice).  That's what this thread is all about, right?

otter

For what it's worth I spoke to my doctor about this very topic yesterday at an appt. I forwarded him the article that BCO posted recently about the effects of alcohol. He said it was ONE study with too many unknown factors. Alcohol in moderation was fine! I didn't drink during chemo just to be  on the safe side and to make sure my liver only had to process the toxic chemo out of my body but GOD knows I would have loved a glass of Red. I think my onc understands that having a glass or TWO of wine with a friend can sometimes be more healing than any prescription. I will definitely cut back and be more mindful as I was not aware alcohol can raise your estrogen levels, Its bad enough I have to give up perfectly delicious grapefruit crushes due to Tamoixfen/grapefruit mixture issues but I will not give up my pinot.

Diane

Diane.... Be glad you're not in Washington State with all the marvelous temptation.  Just so wonderful to hit the wine bars and try flights of wonderful wines (small sips of several).  Plus tastings.

The link I previously posted was in response to the study cited by BC.org.  A different point of view....the point being that mortality from all causes is the same for imbibers vs abstainers.  So a breast cancer vs heart disease discussion.

I didn't drink during chemo either as thought my poor liver had enough to do.  Except for communion wine, that is.  Took major gulps of that as normally good port (congregation supplies).

I did ask the question of two of the major researchers in the field about alcohol and tamoxifen/AIs because I was curious if as much a danger if you are getting the estrogen sucked out anyway.  The answer is they don't know.  There was not enough data in the other study to know this....was done on patients diagnosed more than ten years ago, and not enough were doing hormonal therapy to have enough sample to study.

So right now I am imbibing.  This could change on Tuesday when I meet for the first time with my new oncologist.  I am assuming all is well and that my liver function is back to normal.  If not, I will need to adjust things a bit.

But I have no intention of giving up wine long term.  For the record, I am quite partial to cabernet blends with a chocolate-cherry finish.   YUM!!!!

They do get suspicious if you show yourself as a lush at Communion!!  I did not have any desire for wine, beer or alchol during my four months of chemo and it took a while after that before it tasted good to me.  I also would only give up wine or cut back to decrease the calories.  Can't remember which thread I read this on but someone suggested adding club soda to wine and make a spritzer so last night I added sprite zero to my red wine and had two glasses which was only one glass of wine.  Not sure if I'll do that all the time but it worked last night.

I meant to add- I am still on the fence about the drinking thing. Right now I am aiming for the 3 drinks a week I seem to remember from some study (pick a number, any number.....). I thought that I might try buying really good wine and try to REALLY appreciate every glass when I do drink it. Quality over quantity. But that said, I just got back from 3 weeks vacation in Croatia and I guess the quality of the wine just wasn't good enough..... ;-)

I am going to a wine tasting tonight with my daughters and sisters.  I will refuse to feel any guilt over this.  The wines will be quality wines and they are just little sips so I can say they will be quality over quantity.

i'm one who really enjoys a glass of wine -- i'm very nervous at social gatherings, and a glass of wine helps a lot. Haven't drunk enough to have a hangover in decades -- but before dx, almost always had 1-2 glasses wine at bedtime, unless i had them at dinner. My husband drinks about the same. Then i had a hysterectomy (unconnected with bc, but the same summer as rads) and couldn't drink for months -- my gut hurt. Got over that gradually, and my PC kept after me about recurrence, but i returned to 1 glass of an evening, one at parties...

i'm not fooling myself: Otter is absolutely right: the stats are there, alcohol increases the recurrence risk. (Lots of studies, and they all say the same thing: dose-related response. Drink more, risk is higher.)  But for me it is a balance of QoL. If i don't drink at all, it puts a crimp in our social life, and i'm in a bad mood because i'm being pushed around by this disease..... So yes, i cut down -- no bedtime drink. but socially - definitely. Usually it's one now, not two... but some.

So ... life goes on, and last fall i developed reflux. Because it's to my larynx, it takes very little to cause effects, and the list of things i can't eat and drink (even with meds) begins with alcohol, chocolate, tea -- and even *decaf* coffee and tea. Plus bedtime snacks, cola, and probably even tomatos in all forms ...this seriously sucks. I've lost 10 lbs and counting (i can afford it).

I think we each have to decide how to live our own lives. Otter opted for chemo; others opt out for the same risk reduction. Some stick to AIs despite serious joint pains; i opted out because Femara fuzzed my brain. Understand the risk, and decide if it's worth it - and go on. There are no guarantees anyway, so if a recurrence happens -- i'll never know whether it was that wine or going off Femara or neither .... 

And as soon as i figure out how to get this reflux under control, i'll have at least 1 glass of wine a week! Two if there's 2 social events.

This post makes me feel much better.  Just had 4 mo doc visit with BC doc and she was pleased I was eating better and had lost 19 lbs.  I need to lose 20 more, then I will be at a good weight for me.  She asked about alcohol intake and I had to tell her I still drink my wine.   I will normally have between 4 and 6 glasses over the course of a week. I have been drinking less overall with my weight loss efforts.   She wants me to be at 3.5 "servings" of any alcohol per week.  CIted a study that shows an increased chance of recurrence or death from BC if you drink more.  

 I told her I am doing really good on eating only whole foods, barely touch anything processed anymore, and I have lost a good amount of weight and will lose more.   I told her I am not willing to gie up my wine.  My hubby and me belong to our local vintner's club and enjoy tasting different wines and yes, drinking them!   I asked her how much of an increased risk and she admited she would have to locate the study.  

 I am of the mind if the rish is small, say even 2 or 3 % increase, who the #$^^%$$## cares?  I am not giving up everything and what if I did and it still returns?   I think I get more relaxation from the wine and thus am not so stressed. Stress is also a risk factor.......

 So, I am going to continue in moderation, but will still be drinking my wine.  

Cheers! 

Just wanted to add that I am ER+ and I do NOT drink.  Maybe a drink or two once or twice a year.

My tiny cancer that was never to return, is now stage IV.  Drinking had NOTHING to do with it.  Unless, of course, we are talking about drinkin a bit too much during teenage years!    I sure did my share of that.  But, I can tell you 100% that drinking did NOT cause it to come back.

So I say,  drink up ladies! 

I am sorry but I live in a party town! We had T-shirts mad to say instead of BoothbayHarbor they said BoozeBay Harbor!!!! All I got to say!

B