Category ideas: Prevention, Politics/Activism

I see your points. They are good. 

How would you feel about a forum for breast cancer and the environment. I need to stay away from "politics".

I vote yes.

The word "prevention" concerns me.  It implies that we can prevent breast cancer and therefore, by extension, some may interpret this to mean that we were responsible for getting BC because we did not do what was necessary to prevent it.   I don't think that's a very good message, nor it is accurate in most cases. 

While there are many things that we can do to reduce our risk of getting BC and/or a recurrence, and while there are actions that we can take to reduce the risk for future generations, the fact is that many of the highest risk factors for breast cancer are things that we can't control.  Examples would be our family history, whether we have dense breasts, the age at which our periods started and stopped, etc..  

So to me, "prevention" is not the appropriate word.

Musical -- I agree, it would be great to have a thread that discusses politics, with input from the international community -- for example: what changes would we like our own governments to make to benefit healthcare, the environment, clean energy, international co-operation etc.

The sad truth is that recent political threads on this site degenerate into intense partisanship, with U.S. political party talking points posted "ad nauseam" and insulting comments made about the others' leaders etc.

We could be working together to help influence changes for the benefit of us all, even though we're from different parts of the world.  Wouldn't that be nice?

Madalyn, are there not others who would moderate this? Despite the difficulties and maybe only teething probs, I still think its worth a go... with BC it would be good to cover every base you can would it not? 

Cheers

Musical.

Musical...

There's another problem.  What constitutes evidence?  What is the truth?  For every news website supporting one position, there are thirteen others supporting the opposite. 

It doesn't work here.

E

Enjoyful, theres no problem if words have meaning and they do. If you dont think they do then thats your prerogative.  If they dont then indeed we have a problem.  To cut to the chase, evidence is based on factual proof. That simple. That is what constitutes truth. Without a foundation of what constitutes truth, we indeed are balking at the 1st hurdle. If everybody who wants to contribute or participate in a thread like this cant get past agreeing black is black and white is white, (as an example) then yeah, it aint gonna get far. I would think we're not all in this camp. Thankfully. Anyway, news websites as I understand them to be, are not all there is to finding credible sources of research, in the light of what we're talking  about here...as the OP said were candidates to be discussed ...."the commercialization of breast cancer," ...."companies that manufacture carcinogenic products:" etc,  so Im not sure what you mean when you say "it doesnt work here".  

Linda, with all due respect, there should be no offense if someone disagrees with you. Its a fact of life. I dont agree with you either, but it doesnt mean that Im all bitter and twisted about it. I dont have to accept what you say, but I can respect the fact that have a right to what you believe. Disagreement can be dealt with in the right way or the wrong way. The type of truth synonymous with the idea put forth in this thread, shouldnt pose a problem of "interpretation".As for believing something coz I "want to " as in its suits my royal fancy....nah. Not solid enough for me. Has to based on fact.

Again, if we can get past what is black and white is white, then count me in.

Cheers

Musical

So here we go again....ugh.

Musical, I agree with you when you say that:

The Truth alone should be the yardstick and the guideline for content. 

To cut to the chase, evidence is based on factual proof. That simple. That is what constitutes truth.

If everybody who wants to contribute or participate in a thread like this cant get past agreeing black is black and white is white, (as an example) then yeah, it aint gonna get far.

I agree, but unfortunately the problems that we get into on this site when politics is discussed rarely relate to situations that are black and white.  In fact, as I see it, there is little in the world that is purely black or white.  There's a lot of gray out there.

For example, I could say that "the U.S. healthcare bill that was recently passed is good legislation that will help many Americans, including some of the women here who have breast cancer".  I can support that statement with a long list of facts.  By the same token, I could also say that "the U.S. healthcare bill that was recently passed is poor legislation that will negatively impact many Americans, including some of the women here who have breast cancer".  I can support that statement with an equally long list of facts.  So it appears that both statements are true; there are plenty of facts to support both positions. Which is it then?  Black?  Or white?  Ah, it's gray!  And that's why we get into so many arguments. Little in the world is black or white and it's human nature to choose to believe those facts that support our positions on issues, and to ignore and/or discount those facts that don't support our positions. So we end up with very different opinions - all based on fact - and strong disagreements.  Even if everyone were to consider all the facts from both sides of the argument, some of us will put more weight on some facts and others among us will be more weight on other facts.  We will never all agree, even with facts at hand.  And disagreements aren't restricted to issues such as healthcare, where opinions and fact tend to blend together.  The fact is that two people looking at raw data from the same research study can disagree on the interpretation and meaning of the results.

I don't want to start up the debate, yet again, about healthcare reform in the U.S. (please please please let's not get into that discussion!). I used that example because it's one that we can all identify with since it was so recently discussed - with huge, ugly disagreements - on this site.  

All of that is to say that I agree that getting into "politics" is not a good idea, not unless we want to spend a lot of time posting only to end up with the thread - and all our effort - being deleted.  This doesn't mean however that we can't discuss activism related to breast cancer, so long as we try to keep politics and our political opinions out of it.

Ah Beesie, youve got me there... darn it, and I knew I knew I knew...that I shouldve put green is green and yellow is yellow or something.  In other words I shouildve used a better example and stayed away from the good ol famous phrase,  Its Black or White, not that it doesnt suffice but that it lends itself to being misconstrued in this case.

 I dont have a problem that in some things there are grey areas, and varying degrees at that, but since we're talking about it, Id like to suggest that there actually are SOME things, that are black and white enough to take action on. Im thinking more in terms of specifics here. Like a peice of information that is based on the fact that it is true that it actually happened. Like...for example ...professor X in his lab discovered on xx/xx/2010 that x treatment has shrunk 100% of tumours it has been used on.....(haha yeah  I might as well be optimistic here)  Wouldnt it be WOOOOOOnderful if we could all pull together, thrash out what is suitably black or white enough for us to take action one way or the other. ( and by suitably,  I mean, for example... for the situation at hand theres enough evidence done by credible studies to conclusively say that x treatment is going to work in x number woman over 40 who have this particular diagnosis ...or whatever... )  Simply with honesty in mind and everything else put aside, like patriotism, prejudices etc,  I believe its doable to discuss anything really.  Its a case of expounding on factual info and recognizing that there are situations where the juries still out.

I know  SQUAT ALL about BC and reliable sources of research, and in fact would love to listen to those who do know. Its not that I would put myself down for this either... its just simply appreciating someone else for their particular strength which I dont have. We're all different and how boring if we were all the same. Trust has to be earned in many areas and this is no different.. That takes time and evaluation obviously and is not something that comes overnight. After a while you get a feel for what and who is  credible.

So what I really meant, was, for the sake of those who would agree that if I pinched them, and then they agree that was real, I would hope there is still some of us about who believe the believable  if its based on a fact. Opinions are different to facts. Theres no way they can merge. Im not saying opinions are not good or theres no place for them for thats not true. Facts are indisputable proof. Opinions leave room for error and doubt. The 2 fall in different camps.

As I said, Im fairly new to this site and so I have no idea what that ugliness was all about, but I strongly suspect that ugliness could have been avoided if people didnt mind someone else showing them something in all honesty. THATS where Im coming from.  Another thing that comes to mind is once there is an understanding, that people NEED to be able to question someone who puts forth something, and that they are generally not doing it to be derogatory, then that makes for a better atmosphere where people can discuss things more freely. You generally get to know who is a trouble maker and who is genuine.

Cheers

Musical

How about Breast Cancer Causes and Possible Steps to Lower Risk as a title for the forum? 

That would allow discussion of a wide range of possible causes, and how to deal with those possible causes without assigning blame, especially since no one has come up with the magic formula that works for everyone.  Who knows, maybe we will!

And as stimulating as a good political discussion can be, there are too many ways for those threads to encourage people to forget that this is a support board, and begin acting in ways that are not supportive, especially in a community this large. 

Bren - Just read an interesting article in today's Boston Globe (www.boston.com) titled How Facts Backfire by Joe Keohane.  He cites studies that have shown that when a political partisan (for example) is shown facts which prove beyond all doubt that she is wrong about something/someone, she becomes even more certain that her (incorrect) beliefs are correct.

And for the truly uninformed, certain media have learned all too well that if a lie is broadcast often enough, regardless of who comes along to refute it with the facts, the uninformed soon believe it to be true.

We are lost .

Beesie, I like your suggested title!

Per the article, I only used politics as an example.  Probably more apropos to this thread might be the "story" making the rounds that cancer is big business and that this is the reason a cure has not been found.  As one who has worked closely with researchers who, along with their international colleagues, are spending 18-20 hours a day seeking the definitive causes of the over 200 different cancers, I find that particular "story" extremely hard to swallow....