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  • geneskirt
    geneskirt Member Posts: 218
    edited June 2010

    I'm simply curious....how would you discribe what the PT does?  I have had massage... and honestly, I think we would all benefit medicallly from regular massage and PT and chiro.  I didn't think the body could be this altered and under 'diress' of sorts for this long from surgery, so I'm GLAD im still numb to some degree.  I think my ribs and spine(posturally) have forever been altered.  I would LOVE to have a PT.  I should ask my onc next week when i see her.

  • cs7777
    cs7777 Member Posts: 570
    edited June 2010

    Ah, that's an important distinction Lilah.  I don't think a PTs massage will literally restore feeling, although Juliempw has described how stimulating along the numb edges over time should help stimulate the sensory nerve regrowth.  I'll see if I can dig up the PM she sent me on it and forward it to you.  Its basically stuff you can do frequently - just lightly touch along the edges of wehre you do have sensation with your fingertips and with different textures and with warm/cool (NOT hot/cold) in order to provide stimulation.  She mentioned using a sponge even.  I've been doing this and I think the numb area is shrinking but its so slow its hard to be sure.  Still, ask your PS about PT too - worth getting her input.

  • Lilah
    Lilah Member Posts: 4,898
    edited June 2010

    Oh CS that would be wonderful to have!  Thank you!

  • m-star
    m-star Member Posts: 547
    edited July 2010

    I was told by my PT to use 5 different types of fabric to gently stroke over the numb skin as it has been proven to stimulate new nerve growth/repair. I am gradually getting feeling back. I do still have numb areas but its getting better.

    Geneskirt~i love P!NKS hair! She's great!

  • AStorm
    AStorm Member Posts: 1,429
    edited July 2010

    I'm so glad I found this thread! There is a wealth of information here... guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.

  • geneskirt
    geneskirt Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2010

    That is Truly interesting - about the fabric!   I can see how that would help.  There is So much out there neurologically that we don't fully understand about the body.  Would you believe that I feel having my nips done has enhanced feeling????? YUP!  Crazy, I know, but I think my body remembers visually, and tactile wise with touch, and it somehow has triggered 'memory'.  I think the mind regenerates nerves, or at least contributes. 

    Or, maybe I'm simply stark raving Nuts!!!!  lol, but my mind remembers sensations.  Maybe I should remember what it felt like to not think about cancer !?.... now THAT would be a mental challenge!!!!

  • Lilah
    Lilah Member Posts: 4,898
    edited July 2010

    LOL Gene -- sometimes I find, lately, that I don't think about it!  So there is hope.

    Kay -- this will probably sound like a dumb question but: what five different types of fabric did you use?  I can think of silk, courderoy, velvet, cotton, wool... do you mean like that?  (Does plaid feel different than solid?  Hehe just kidding :)

  • m-star
    m-star Member Posts: 547
    edited July 2010

    yes fabics like that Lilah!

    cotton, silk, soft denim, wool, towelling, courdroy, linen, chenille, satin, leather (!?) lol

    Anything really! i was told to spend a few minutes stroking the fabric over the numb areas, then to move on to the next fabric. Sounded crazy when she was telling me but it seems to be helping

  • Lilah
    Lilah Member Posts: 4,898
    edited July 2010

    Thanks Kay :)  I will try that.  One more question: how many times a day?

  • m-star
    m-star Member Posts: 547
    edited July 2010

    hmmm....i only do it once a day but as many times as you like i guess. Im just lazy!

  • Goldieknox
    Goldieknox Member Posts: 83
    edited July 2010

    I will defiantly have to try out the fabric technique. It has been driving me crazy not having feeling in my armpit that wraps around to my back. I find that I have to stand in front of the mirror to put my deodorant on just to make sure I'm putting it in the right place. Don't want to walk around thinking I'm covered and really stinking out the people around me, lol. Especially not in this heat.

  • m-star
    m-star Member Posts: 547
    edited July 2010

    ihave numbness in that place too. On my right side.if i lift my arm, it starts at the bottom of the armpit, and goes down to about half way down my breast,then across to the centre of that breast. There's a whole patch. It feels like its made of rubber or something! lol Hard to shave under there too with that cord thing thats attached to the pec muscle-it sticks out!

    The only bit thats still a bit numb on my left side is right where the incision is and the surrounding bits of skin.

    oh i've just noticed while i was scratching the skin to find out the numb bits....on the right side,its also still a little numb going a few inches around from my armpit,toward my back.

     But there is def improvement over the last couple a months

  • Lilah
    Lilah Member Posts: 4,898
    edited July 2010

    Goldie -- yeah I have numbness under my arm, around to the back and even on part of my inner arm as well (in addition to part of my breast mound).  My inner breast mound has feeling... and lately I've noticed I can feel my deodorant when I roll it on so feeling coming back in the armpit (finally) after a year (lost the feeling there after SNB).  I also find the numbness toward the back area and under the arm has improved (the back part, it seems to me, went number with mastectomy... which was 6 months after SNB -- I had two lumpectomies, then chemo, then MX/TE, then exchange).  I am ALL for helping the restoration of my nerves with bits of fabric!

  • sweetie2040
    sweetie2040 Member Posts: 817
    edited July 2010

    Hi Ladies,

    catching up here reading your comments about numbness and trying to get back sensation. I have numbness on the back of my arms,armpits and of course all of chest area. Sometimes when I think about it, it is like a suffocating feeling. You know when your feet fall asleep and you get that tingling and you want to just shake them to wake them up. I get that feeling like "wake up" breasts and it drives me nuts. It's weird though sometimes if you bump up against something you get that jolt of nerve sensation almost painful. so weird.....

  • geneskirt
    geneskirt Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2010

    Isn't it amazing when others discribe what you are feeling?? 

    I too have the same numbness.  After 7/8 months since exchange, and 20 months since Mx, i am starting to get more sensation now.  Strange tho, it makes me wish there was more!  Does that make sense?lol

    I think time will help.... and i also believe the more intune we are with our body, the faster we help it heal.  I think the fabric is a GREAT tool!  I have been trying to massage my scar adhesion and IMF area more as well.  I think it all helps, and i think its important to keep up with manual exam still.  After all, my medical oncologist still exams my chest for changes and lumps - I guess we should too!?  

  • Lilah
    Lilah Member Posts: 4,898
    edited July 2010

    Definitely examine yourself Gene!  And yeah time will restore a lot -- my dad had gallbladder surgery years ago (the old fashioned way) and it took something like 7 years for the area where he was cut to regain feeling.

  • geneskirt
    geneskirt Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2010

    Seven years!  Wow!  Thats a long time for the body to work at restoring itself.

    And ur right about the 'old fashioned' way for abdominal surgery...... I'm heading in for oopherectomy and hysterectomy on Sept 2, and i'm anticipating minimal setback now that they do it laprascopically. I will stay one night and be back to work in two weeks , with trace scarring if everything goes as planned.  Alot different than the 'old fashioned' major abdominal surgery it used to be.  Will let you know.

    I guess 'gummies' and robots and scientific improvemnets are our gain!  I feel VERY blessed compared to what women endured just five short years ago!  Puts a new spin on the term "cutting edge" technology!

    I used to fear surgeons.... now I want to thank each one of them personally  for being so dedicated and brave and choosing their profession, lol!

    xo

  • Goldieknox
    Goldieknox Member Posts: 83
    edited July 2010

    Now that the swelling has gone down, I have noticed rippling, especially if I don't stand with perfect posture. I really thought I wasn't going to have any but I guess the swelling was hiding it really well. Has anyone else had a problem with rippling with the gummies? It's not bad, just a little annoying.

  • bcincolorado
    bcincolorado Member Posts: 5,758
    edited July 2010

    I had an appointment with my onco and bs this week.  The onco wants me to start PT for range of motion with my surgical side since I can't raise my arm yet (surgery was in January) and bs wants me to talk to ps about scar massage since she seemed concerned about scars getting "deep".  For those of you who had exchange awhile ago (mine was just 6/11/10) are you doing scar massage or did you?

  • cs7777
    cs7777 Member Posts: 570
    edited July 2010

    goldie - no rippling for me.  sorry to hear you're getting some.

    bcincolo - i'm glad you're getting PT since you definitely sound limited.  You definitely deserve to get that ROM back.  I started PT again 2 wks ago, about 4 wks after my xchg susrgery.  My PT is all massage of the tissues and muscles and the scar a bit too, so as to release adhesions mostly.  I don't have limited range of motion in my arm or shoulder from anything other than the implant being under my pec.  My implant is also just a tad too high and the PS thought the massage might help release it downwards just the right amount.  Not sure I believe that will happen but I like the massage and it does help the pec so I'm going anyway. 

    CS

  • geneskirt
    geneskirt Member Posts: 218
    edited July 2010

    Goldieknox: Where is the rippling?  I cant say the implants look much different depending on my posture.  In fact, I just did a little experiment in the mirror, and mine don't seem to look any different -any way ... even lying down or hands above my head(lol!).  Its like they are filled to the MAX and NO movement.   ??   I was expanded to the cc's as my exchange volume.  I know different PS's use different techniques and over expand.  Could it be that more time is needed for things to relax, settle and take shape?  When do you see your PS again?

    bcincolorado :  You haven't been able to raise your arm since January surgery?  Is this due to a secondary condition like lymphodema or frozen shoulder?  Or do they feel this is a side effect of surgery? 

  • m-star
    m-star Member Posts: 547
    edited July 2010

    goldieknox~ did your PS go smaller with your gummy,than what was in the TE? And did you have full submuscular implants?

    my ps said one of the reasons they go smaller with the implants is to allow for skin shrinkage and that means helping to avoid rippling. I am wondering if they pec is really overstretched,could that cause you to see rippling also? guess it might make it more thin and see through.

    I am dreading thingslike this happening. you just want things to look great =(

    can they do anything about the rippling goldie?

  • Goldieknox
    Goldieknox Member Posts: 83
    edited July 2010

    I wonder if I will notice more rippling as they settle, I sure hope not.They are full sub-muscular.  The left side pocket was a little snug for the gummy and it has rippling along the top but disappears when I stand perfectly straight. The right side pocket was loose because he had to do a total capsulectomy on that side and it has rippling on the side under my arm when I lean forward. I go back to see my PS at the end of the month. I have no idea if there is something that can be done about the rippling. It's defiantly on my list of things I have to ask him. Just annoying........

  • Kitwe
    Kitwe Member Posts: 64
    edited July 2010

    Wow  I didn't realize how much I have to learn.  Thank you.

    I had my BMX on June 24th.  I did some research and thought i wanted gummies but now I'm not sure.  I was a B-C cup most of my adult years (My husband was satisfied so i thought).  When I turned 50 I grew to a D cup (then he was happy).  It was cool but didn't make much difference to me.

    I have expanders but they have not been inflated yet.  I get this phantom pain/feeling where my nipples should be.  I can lift my arms over my head.  I tire easily.

    I know nothing about ripples or most of what you've been talking about.  I work with kids with sensory issues so i can understand how the sensory stimulation would be helpful.  I'm going to start today->Thanx

    Can someone give me a quick overview of the different implants? I did research them but now I'm unsure again.  I would love to have soft boobs to cuddle my future grandchildren.  (Yes, I am old 58.) 

    THANK YOU

  • sweetie2040
    sweetie2040 Member Posts: 817
    edited July 2010

    Kiwe- check out this website http://www.cohesivebreastimplants.com/inamed410

    and http://video.yahoo.com/watch/6855795/17830810

    and go to the breast implant sizing101 forum and there are links on there about the gummies. The gummies are supposed to ripple less because they are "form stable". Regular saline and silicone can fold more because of the contents thus causing rippling. If you want gummies you have to have a Dr. who participates in the trial. check out the Allergan/Inamed website too for the sizes and styles and some additional information.

    If is very normal to have "phantom" pain after a MX. The nerves are trying to reconnect. Right now I have "itching on the inside that I can't scratch. I couldn't lift my arms over my head either for quite a while. I needed help getting dressed and drying after a shower. It will all gradually return. I was VERY tired in the beginning too. I could barely walk up my street and now 12 weeks later I am walking an hour a day for exercise. Give it time. You need to heal and it is different for everyone but all quite normal.

    P.S. this is a great forum to learn about gummies, read through the posts 

  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited July 2010

    I had my gummy placed a little over a year ago, and at my six week post-op visit, the rippling was definitely noticeable.  I too had thought that, with gummies, you didn't have ripples.  But apparently, it can happen, particularly in women who are very thin and have thin skin due to the mx. 

    This past January (so 9 months after the gummy placement), I had my areola and nipple reconstruction, and while I was under, I also gave consent for the PS to do some fat grafting from my stomach to fill in some of the ripples.  He did a great job, and the ripples are barely noticeable now.  I think the success rate with fat grafting varies, but my own belief is that the succes is also dependent on the PS' skill.  Anyway, my PS has always done a beautiful job every step of the way with the reconstruction, so I trusted his judgement, and I'm really quite happy with the result.  The gummy does still feel like a bowling ball on my chest, but aesthetically, it looks quite good.

  • m-star
    m-star Member Posts: 547
    edited July 2010

    sweetie-

    i too get an itch but i cant tell if its on the inside or out! Because my right side is still quite numb,even if i scratch it i can get rid of the itch. its horrible. I have the same problem on the back of my right shoulder and across the top of my back where shingles left me with a numb patch. I often end up bleeding from trying to scratch my itch!

  • bcincolorado
    bcincolorado Member Posts: 5,758
    edited July 2010

    I thnk the numbness will get a little better at some point in time but I don't think we will ever feel "normal" again.  It is a matter of getting used to a "new normal".

  • cs7777
    cs7777 Member Posts: 570
    edited July 2010

    Re itching, I read somewhere to try scratching in the areas you DO have feeling that are nearby where you feel the phantom itch.  There should be a point where the nerve endings actually are that you can actually stimulate/sooth them (its your brain that's still interpreting them as still being in the breast skin).  For the breast area, the nerves come from the spine around your side, so perhaps try scratching on your side at the point you have feeling there.  I haven't had the issue but it makes anatomical sense. 

  • Goldieknox
    Goldieknox Member Posts: 83
    edited July 2010

    I get the itch too.....I find slapping lightly in the general area helps some. Scratching numb areas is just so weird and it feels "icky" to me, so I avoid it as much as possible.

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