terrified for friend, how do you go on?
I have lurked on here for the past couple of years, throughout my 34 yo friend's first diagnosis of stage 3 metaplastic, triple negative breast cancer. She was diagnosed almost 2.5 years ago (5cm tumor, 1 lymph node involved), fought for 9 months through chemo, a mastectomy, and radiation. She was declared clear, all tumor marker tests came back clear, then last week she had an MRI for headaches and found mulitple mets, and now some on her lungs, liver and kidney. Bones are clear. The neurologist and onc are giving her 2-12 months. Of course she is terrified, overwhelmed, and devasted to be told she will die and leave her husband of 4 years and sweet little boy of only 2. I don't know why the doctors only give her such a short time, when I see so many amazing stories of fighters on here that have battled back mets all over the place, numerous times and lived for years! Do you know how they come up with those estimates? Are they accurate? She's obviously still reeling from this horrible development in her life, that's not even a week old. Is she going to process this and move on to fighting? Is this a normal progression? How are you all so strong, and positive, were you that way the whole time?
I am just devastated for her and am looking for some shred of hope to get through this. I feel guilty bothering you all with my feelings, since most of you are fighting your own battles. I have the utmost respect and am in awe of the strength you all have.
Comments
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I am so sorry about your friend.
You're right, a lot of women have fought for many years. It looks like a second opinion is in order. What treatment options has she been offered?
I'll tell you the truth, I wouldn't stay with a doc who gave me an expiration date. He might be right, he might be wrong, but he's not G-d. My onc puts it this way, "I'm a great doctor but I'm a terrible prophet".
I wish the best for your friend.
Leah
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I agree with Leah...second opinion for sure! When I was first diagnosed, and not sure what stage yet, my doctor told me even the worst case scenario has hope, so don't assume if you are stage IV that all is lost. I am not stage IV, but she would not have said it, if she didn't believe it, and she has been practicing for twenty three years. I will keep your friend in my prayers. Take Care and try and keep your head up.
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Thank you all so much for the quick response. What a calming mix of hope and gentle facts. Thank you sunflowers for the links, I will be doing a lot of reading. Her tumor board meets today, so we will see what the group comes back with for treatment. I was thinking, perhaps her prognosis is not as good because her original tumor was not completely destroyed by the chemo... I don't know, but I am waking up this morning with a renewed hope and sources for more knowledge, that I think will help me to be a stronger support to her and her family. Thank you so much.
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Oh, and regarding a second opinion, I know that she had contact with a triple neg guro at Sloan Kettering during her first battle, so I would imagine that they will be contacting him again. I hope they find the strength to fight this, and not to give in to their grief just yet...
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Just to add to the information you have, metaplastic is an extremely rare form of breast cancer, so rare that little is known about the best treatment options. She might want to inquire about clinical trials at a large cancer center like MD Anderson or the others mentioned above—someplace that sees so much cancer that it will have seen some of this rare type. I'm so sorry that your friend has to deal with this. Here's a helpful link that puts it in easy-to-grok language: http://breastcancer.about.com/lw/Health-Medicine/Conditions-and-diseases/What-is-Metaplastic-Breast-Cancer-.htm
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Are you saying she has mets to her brain (i.e., MRI and headaches). That could be where they're getting the stats. But brain mets (and others) can be beaten back. I've been at it for over 3 years -- (brain for only 6 months). If your friend does have brain mets, here's a great site to find out more info: http://brainmetsbc.org/ It is encouraging.
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nagem: Thanks for the link, I am always up for more info
konakat: Yes, she does have mets to the brain. Surgically removed 3 last friday, one ruptured during removal, so they are going to start WBR next week. She also has 4 others that will hopefully be destroyed in that process. Then I guess they can start the chemo.You are an inspirational story, 3 years and still going strong, that's awesome!!!
Thanks you guys, information is power!!
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There is an essay in the June 1, 2010 issue of Journal of Clinical Oncology with the discomforting title, "Certain Death in Uncertain Time: Informing Hope by Quantifying a Best Case Scenario."
The essay describes the difficulty our oncologists have in being realistic about a cancer patient's prognosis, while at the same time allowing the patient to maintain a sense of hope rather than futility.
The essay is too long to reproduce completely, but I'll copy some excerpts and provide links for those of you who have library privileges:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20406926
http://jco.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/full/28/16/2802
Here are some excerpts from the essay. I apologize for the medical jargon, but that's the way the author expressed herself. She was writing this to other oncologists, not to patients like us:
++++++++++begin quote+++++++++++++++
"Research informs us that the majority of patients with metastatic cancer desire information about their likely survival duration. The literature also recommends that prognostic information be communicated to those who request it in a manner that is meaningful and realistic, but maintains hope. Knowing these general principles is different than applying them in practice, and when confronted by versions of "how long have I got?" we struggle to find suitable answers. Although patients, caregivers, and health care professionals have identified hope as an integral part of prognostic discussions, the key practical questions of how to define, quantify, and convey realistic hope remain unanswered. …
"… [Doctors] need to believe hope exists before we can convey it. But how do oncologists find hope? A potential source of hope stems from our experiences with patients who manage to defy the odds and become long-term survivors. Such experiences can help us envision, and therefore convey, hope. … [The author uses Teddy Kennedy as an example, and cites some text from his memoirs. I've omitted that part.] ..."Long-term survivors provide oncologists with hope, and telling stories of long-term survivors with similar cancers is an obvious way of conveying hope when discussing life expectancy. However, this hope needs to be tempered by the realization that few achieve such long survival times. Long-term survivors are outliers, and the more extreme their experience, the greater the doubt that they represent a realistic example. Quantifying and explaining the best case scenario representing the best 10% of patients is preferable to describing an individual long-term survivor, and is more realistic. …
"As Stephen Gould published 3 years after reading that his median survival with abdominal mesothelioma was 8 months, 'the median isn't the message.' He argued that median survival can be both misleading and discouraging and believed few people have sufficient understanding of statistics to evaluate what the term median really means. He noted that most people would read such a statement as 'I will probably be dead in 8 months.' Explaining that a median survival of 8 months means that 50% of patients will live longer than 8 months, and encouraging patients to review aspects of their personal situation that move them into the better 50% is a way of using the median to convey hope. …
"Patients understandably want hope and optimism from their doctors. A previous Art of Oncology article described a patient who requested that her oncologist 'be more optimistic' about her prognosis. The oncologist's optimism was necessary for the patient to maintain hope. Achieving the correct balance between conveying hope and being realistic is where the difficulty arises. We need to be honest without being blunt. We need to foster realistic hope without creating false expectations of longevity that might lead to wasted time and futile treatments that impair quality of life. Discussing the best case, worst case, and typical scenarios is a simple method that appropriately balances hope with realism. …
"Setting optimistic and achievable goals is also an important means of conveying and sustaining hope for patients with incurable cancer. There is more to life than its length, and we sometimes forget this as we focus our attention on survival times.
"Providing a range of prognostic estimates, including outcomes that are more likely, and outcomes that are less likely, but still possible, allows patients to both maintain hope for the best and plan for the worst. We hypothesize that efforts to convey hope, suitably balanced by realism, will leave fewer patients feeling defeated after discussion of their prognosis. A patient's expectations of their survival must also be considered. It is when these expectations exceed reality that an estimate of survival becomes bad news. …
"Life is inherently uncertain and unpredictable, with or without cancer. We cannot tell patients how long they will live, but we can do much better than giving them a single number. Improving the accuracy of our predictions is important, but conveying the limitations and uncertainty of these predictions is even more important, not in the least because it offers a means of quantifying and conveying realistic hope and understanding."+++++++++++++++end quote+++++++++++
I think the distilled version of this is that our oncos often give us a number that represents the "median survival time," and we misinterpret that number as the longest we might live. What we need to realize (and what they should be telling us) is that 50% of patients will live longer than the median (while 50% will not live that long). Also, as was noted in the essay, "there is more to life than its length."
Hugs...
otter
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All I can say is OTTER, is such a inspirational to us all!!!! She is the Queen!!! And if anyone knows anything is she!!!!
Hugs!
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Thank you all for your help. I agree nobleanna007, Otter's words are inspirational.
I appreciate everyone's words of wisdom.
My friend is spending a week at MD Anderson mid-July, will see what their tests come up with, and go from there. I am trying to forget about the timeline her doctor gave, and just take it day by day.
Thank you, best wishes to you all...
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Think the kidney involvement will also be making the future more difficult for her. Tumours in the kidneys , in addition to in the lungs and liver, brain ,are going to make treatment gruelling in the extreme. I hope she gets some news around which they can come up with a treatment plan-but it sounds like there is a huge amount of cancer spread throughout her body. She could respond very well-there is no knowing in advance which, if any, chemos will work well for us, so all we can do is try as many we can, in the hope that something can hold things stable. Wishing your friend strength in the difficult times ahead-do let us know how she gets on.
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ElaineD- I appreciate your honesty about the kidney tumors... I didn't know that that could make things more difficult for her. We are still waiting for her to start chemo. She will have a brain scan in a couple of weeks to see how the WBR did for her, and then back to MD Anderson to get a second opinion. She is having her lung tumor biopsied soon, and will hopefully get a chemo plan once she gets back to MD...
One day at a time. As you all know, waiting to hear the plan is so hard...
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