Has this ever happened to anyone here???
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I went to have a biopsy today based on a "very suspicious" MRI. Had DCIS on the right breast. This was the left healthy one where I had an implant put in back in February (after the one that was put in back in Juine of last year....dropped) . The doctor and the technician started looking at my left breast on ultrasound. They looked, and looked, and looked. They took pics. The doc felt around enough to qualify the afternoon as porn and they saw and felt.....nothing. He said he thinks it's just normal breast tissue, probably a bit compressed from having a breast implant. He said the area that was lit up on the MRI was 4 centimeters, which is HUGE by tumor standards. Thought that if I had a tumor that size it woulld be puckering out of my skin. That it would feel like a rock. That they would see it on ultrasound. Said there was nothing to biopsy. Sooooo......he suggests I have a biopsy under MRI (which sounds incredibly unpleasant). I asked, if you don't see anything, and you don't feel anything, and you don't think I could have a huge cancerous tumor w/out knowing it, why can't I just leave it be. To which he said, "I'm afraid to tell you that. I really don't think this is cancer at all but given your history, I would be remiss to tell you to just forget about it." I've never been so confused, ever. And so I made an appointment for an MRI guided biopsy on 6/18. But I just don't know. I want to discuss this with my surgeon (who is out of the country until 6/9). I just don't know if I can put myself through what is likely an unnecessary and painful test. Has anyone else ever been thru this? Or heard something like this?
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Zachsmom- When I was trying to decide between lumpectomy or MX for my DCIS my surgeon sent me for an MRI to make sure they hadn't missed anything. Four suspicious spots showed up. My surgeon wanted a biopsy done on all of them. Two they were able to biopsy with ultrasound but two had to be done with MRI. I have to say it is not the most pleasant thing but not unbearable. The worst part is getting in the right position. You are laying on your stomach with your breasts hanging down and you have to stay in one position and not move for about 30 minutes. The most painful part was them wrestling me into position, when they compressed the breast and then when they numbed the breast. I was kind of sore afterwards and they had me ice the biopsy sites all day.
I definitely wouldn't assume it is nothing but I would say probably 80% of these things do turn out to be benign. (All four of mine were.) The problem with MRI's is they see everything but they can't really tell what they are seeing so a lot of women get put through all that worry for nothing. In retrospect I wish I hadn't done all that since I ended up going with MX anyway but at the time I hadn't decided. Good luck to you.
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I had calcifications on a screening mammo. This led to a stereotactic mammo guided biopsy, which confirmed DCIS. Before surgery, some surgeons suggested an MRI and some did not. I opted to have the MRI. The MRI showed another suspicious area, a little over 3 cm. I had this second area biopsied under MRI guidance. It too was confirmed to be DCIS.
What do I know for sure? I know that there can be large areas of DCIS which are invisible on mammo and ultrasound; and also cannot be felt. (Neither area of my DCIS showed on ultrasound, and I had LOTS of ultrasound in this process.) I also know we all have different tolerances for living with risk.
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Wow, I have a similar story as the previous poster, sweatyspice. I, too, had caclifications show up on a routine annual mammo (age 44), never been there before or even heard of such a thing. This led to a stereo.biopsy which confirmed DCIS. Breast surgeon suggested an MRI and genetic testing. Resulting MRI showed a suspicion in the OTHER breast, which led to an MRI-guided biopsy. Both genetic test and MRI biopsy were negative, thankfully!!!!!!!! After all this info., BS gave me option of either lumpectomy w/ rads or mastectomy and I chose the former.
Zachsmom - I found the MRI-guided biopsy to be far less painful than either I'd expected or as painful as the stereo.biopsy. In fact, a mammo. was more painful than the MRI-guided biopsy, The mental anguish is definitely the most awful part, but the information must be gathered before one can determine the course of treatment, so we must just shut off our brains (soooo stressful) and get through it. Good luck to you, it'll be OK.
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For reasons that are hard to explain, I am TERRIFIED by the idea of an MRI biopsy. And this after going thru 18 months of fertility treatments, 2 IVFs, a C-section, hernia-diastasis repair operation, 2 lumpectomies, a mastectomy, 3 cosmetic related breast surgeries and more biopsies than I can count. And this is only in the last 5 years!
What about a surgical biopsy? If I were under anasthesia, I would consider it.
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I strongly suggest you discuss this with your surgeon and not take my word for it, but I doubt surgical biopsy is possible. There's no palpable lump. It's not showing on mammo or ultrasound. It's invisible to the naked eye. The only way this shows up is thru MRI.
When you have a stereotactic mammo guided biopsy, they shoot in a metal clip. Then before the lumpectomy they insert wires to guide the surgeon to the site of the metal clip.
The surgeon will have no real idea where to cut and what to remove. It seems to me your options are to get through the MRI biopsy or do watchful waiting and repeat the MRI in a few months to see if it's grown.
Another thing to keep in mind is that, assuming you're still menstruating, there's a recommended period of time in which to have a breast MRI. Apparently there are false positives caused by hormonal fluctuations, and those false positives are reduced if you have the MRI within a certain window of time. Did your team take that into account when scheduling the MRI? For reasons I don't understand, they don't always bother to schedule it properly and the patient often has to push for it. It's worth Googling because I'm no longer sure what that timeframe is - but if that's not when you had the MRI done, maybe it's worth doing a second time to see if the area has disappeared. If it does disappear, it's a hormonal anomaly. That said, I don't know if your insurance will pay for a re-do, so you might have to cover it on your own - and they're expensive.
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I had an MRI biopsy before my bmx. It was not fun as Kate has already said, but one thing that really helped me was VALIUM. Thank the Lord for that stuff, is all I can say.
I read somewhere on here that a lady prayed her way through the MRI biopsy, but honey, valium is the way to go and I'm sure the Lord will back me up on that one. I am not kidding!!!
Best of luck to you - I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.
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Suzybelle- LOL! I second that!
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Well... He made Valium for some purpose - might as well be this!!!
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Zackmom: First of all I'm sorry you have to go through this - nobody should have to deal with the anxiety and the potential loss of a breast (or both).. I had a similiar thing happen to me. I was having a Breast MRI because of my strong family history it had been recommended by my Genetic Counselor while we were awaiting my BRCA test results. The radiologist said that there was "an area of concern" and I took the film to my bs he wasn't convinced.. and he also felt around until I thought he would break ribs - still not convinced, he couldn't feel anything, he did an ultra sound, which didn't show anything. So he sent me back for a digital mammogram and again it came back with nothing. He was convinced this was "nothing" but because of history ( and as a precaution because of the family history) I was sent off for an MRI guided biopsy which showed DCIS Grade 3! DCIS doesn't always show it's face and so all the tests need to be done when something suspicious comes up. That being said, if I were you I would have the tissue reviewed for a second opinion at any of the breast cancer specialty hospitals. Their pathologists see so much bc that they are better at defining it (at least most of the time). I sent my off to Vanderbilt (there are many other's that could be used) and it did come back different - DCIS Grade 1 so it does pay for have the second and third opinions even if you have to step outside your insurance company to get them. Good luck and I hope you find some peace soon!!! Best, Deirdre
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"Another thing to keep in mind is that, assuming you're still menstruating, there's a recommended period of time in which to have a breast MRI. Apparently there are false positives caused by hormonal fluctuations, and those false positives are reduced if you have the MRI within a certain window of time. Did your team take that into account when scheduling the MRI?"
Yup. Done. Had it on day 8, they totally took this into account.
But a couple of other things that seem weird. They kept harping on the fact that the lit up area wasn't on my original MRI in Oct. 2008. But I've had 2 surgeries on that breast since then, with the most recent one being in February (the surgeries were strictly cosmetic). Is it possible it has something to do with that?
I have no family history whatsoever and I'm BRCA negative.
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If the areas had shown on previous MRIs, and assuming the areas hadn't increased in size, they wouldn't be concerned because things would be stable.
You have no family history and you're BRCA negative. BUT you have a personal history of your body wanting to create DCIS.
Could it have to do with the cosmetic surgeries? That's way above my pay grade so to speak, and a question for your physicians. And even if it could be due to the cosmetic surgeries, or if it's another benign condition, you won't have certainty unless you have it biopsied. You already know that.
I can only guess you're trying to do a risk calculation in your head about whether the biopsy is worth it, and no one here can answer that for you - though based on the facts you've presented so far, I suspect the vast majority of us would be pro-biopsy.
....If I'm remembering correctly, MRI basically measures bloodflow. Malignant cells, because they're more active and dividing more quickly, show an uptick in bloodflow compared to the surrounding tissue. Whether scar tissue - especially tissue in the process of healing from a recent wound - also has increased bloodflow is something I just don't know. If I'm wrong about this, someone please feel free to correct me.
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I keep wondering if I did this MRI (which my BC surgeon did not recommend - it was the radiology place) too soon. In other words, I had an implant replaced in February and an MRI in May. Was that too soon? Also, my cosmetic surgeon was in there twice and it's a 4cm mass. No one noticed that?
I dunno, you're right - I just don't really want to have this biopsy.
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I'm in the pro-biopsy camp, definitely.
4cm is large, but it needn't cause puckering or feel like a rock, not unless you're like an AA-cup. He has said he doesn't think it's cancer, so he and you will both sleep better if you let him prove that . And if it should turn out that it is cancer, and remember you have had DCIS, well sorry but "I can't feel it" won't make it go away or stop growing. Seems to me the sooner you know either way, the sooner you can relax and get on with life! Good luck - prayers AND valium!
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How do you know it's a 4cm "mass"? If, as you say, there was a 4cm enhancement on the MRI, why assume it's due to a solid mass? Like you, I'd think a solid mass would likely show on mammo or ultrasound, be palpable, and/or visible to a surgeon who was 'poking around in there.'
BUT....an area of DCIS is often NOT a solid mass, and quite hard to detect.
I'm in the Valium camp as well.
I didn't want to have the biopsy either, because if it was positive it would change the standard of care in my case from lumpectomy to mastectomy. But I REALLY didn't want to have cancer growing and not be able to deal with it.
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I guess you're right - I don't know that it's a mass. Just that it's a large area. What's the worst is having two radiologists from the same place, saying two different things, 24 hours apart. The person who read the films said it was very suspicious. Used the C word. Then the doc who was going to do the biopsy seemed certain it was nothing, It's infuriating.
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Take a Valium. Or two. Have the biopsy. If it turns out to be something later, and you don't address it now, you will never forgive yourself.
~not that I'm tellin you what to do~
That's just what I would do. I'm all about stopping anything before it becomes unstoppable. -
Zachsmom - in that case, how do you feel about playing the third or fourth radiologist's opinion game?
Are you saying that they both recommended a biopsy - but one was much more convinced that it would be malignant than the other? Or are you saying that one radiologist recommended a biopsy and the other tadiologist did not? In the end, the surgeons rely on the radiologist's recommendations, interpreting the scans is the radiologist's job. I seriously doubt a surgeon will say 'no need to biopsy' if a radiologist recommends one.
If you want to see to what extent all radiologists will agree it's called for in your case, then you need another radiologist to read the scan. You can get a copy of the disk and then ask for a second opinion at another institution (assuming their systems are compatible and they can READ the disk format.)
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The first one said she thought it was bad news (based on the films lighting up above my implant) so come in for an ultrasound guided biopsy. Said if they couldn't see it, I could have an MRI biopsy. So when I got there, the second guy (who had just done a biopsy for me in April - B9) was totally stumped. He said that he had read my films and had fully expected to see or feel something. The tech said the same thing. I was there for 90 minutes while they sonogramed, took pics, felt around and both seem baffled. The second guy seemed 100% sure it was nothing but didn't want to tell me to just forget it, so said I should have the MRI biopsy.
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Based on that description, I don't foresee any physician advising against an MRI biopsy - though I guess you could try to find one. This comes down to whether you want to take the risk of ignoring a red flag.
I hope you choose the biopsy, get benign results, and are really pissed off about having to go through a needless-in-hindsight biopsy.
I wish you the best whatever your choice.
And Valium.
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What I'm really wondering is if I could/should repeat the MRI? I wonder if the whole thing was too soon after the lasr surgery I had (2/4). My doc is back on Wed. so I guess I'll know more then.
I did see on the website for the radiology place that they do MRIs under sedation. Does anyone know if they can do the biopsy like that? That would be a real selling point.
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I asked the questions about sedation but the technician told me that the doc' needs us to move around during the test so complete sedation is out. but when I pursued further she told me that they have used valium and/or local pain meds to help with some people.. so why not ask if you can have a local? There is no reason in this day and age that we can't be comfortable when going through any procedure. Best of luck! Deirdre
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I have had 3 stero biopsies, one without valium and 2 with. The ones with valium were so much more tolerable for me to do. Also, after each of my procedures my surgeon recommended waiting 6 months after the surgery to do any imaging, according to him the scar tissue could show up as suspicious if done any sooner. that is just my .02.
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I just got a prescription for valium, but lvtwoqlt, that's exactly what I'm wondering - if I could just repeat the MRI after the six month mark (early August).
Seems my surgeon is back today (apparently his office can't read a calendar). I am waiting to hear back from him.
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Hi there...I too did not/do not want to do an mri biopsy. The needle biopsy i had done in the past was horrific and made me feel like a vodoo doll. I was diagnosed with LCIS...have had 2 surgical biopsies in past 2 years, both came up LCIS. Finally got up nerve to go for mri last week (at same time mammo was clear, nothing palpable)...I was terrified about false positives on mris although I don't even know what that % really is. MRI apparently lit up all over, both sides with one area of real concern (same breast with LCIS but diffrent area). Radioligist suggested MRI biopsy. I called my BS and I will be going straight to SURGICAL BIOPSY. I still have to have radiologist "mark' the spot the morning of the procedure but the biopsy will be done under anestesia, I also for some crazy reason prefer that they take a bigger sample on the surgical biopsy. So...to your question, you CAN do a surgical to follow up on a suspicious MRI (I am using one of the top BS in NYC, and he totally understood my POV. I felt if mri biopsy showed more LCIS, I would wind up on surgical table anyway (and have to wait even longer--which is seriously the worst part). Also...I did my MRI on DAY 40 after the start of my last period...I was a bucket of hormones with very sore breasts (I got period day after MRI)...I am praying the hormones are part of the problem.Anyway, my BS was also out of the office until this week (maybe we use the same guy?) but I emailed him and am slated for surg. biopsy 6.22
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Yup. Same guy. Came back on Monday and I am waiting for him to let me know, based on his reading of my films, if it's necessary. But what I don't get is how can they do a surgical biopsy if there's no lump, no mass, nothing? Also, I wonder if another option is to just repeat the MRI which I thinking maybe I did too soon after the last surgery I had in Feb? Ugh. You're right. The waiting stinks.
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I figure when they do mri biopsy its probably the same issue---they are not testing a lump, perhaps just samples from the lit up areas. I figure, take a bigger peice surgically and put an IV in my arm and I will sleep through it. I also thought about another MRI due to the 40 days after period bur radiologist said she didn't think it would make a big difference. Would love to hear what BS says (Dr S?)
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Yes, Dr. S!
Wow I thought that wasn't possible. But you don't mind them taking "a big piece"? Won't that create a deformity?
I'm complicated by the fact that I have an implant in there. The second radiologist thought the implant might be compressing my breast tissue, but who knows. I think you get to the point where you hope it's anything but cancer....
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he did last 2 surgical biopsies on me ...he doesn't really take a literal "big" peice, I think it is just more than they get with needle biopsies (with my first LCIS diagnosis by needle biopsy, they still had me then do a surgical to get a bigger tissue sample in case needle missed something). No deformity at all on last 2...seriously-you would never know and I am only an A cup to begin with! The radiologist still has to mark the spot for him pre-surgery but that wasn't really bad.
Anyway, just keep in your arsenal of info that surgical biopsy can be a possible option to MRI biopsy ...particularly if Dr. S thinks you may wind up there anyway. Time to leave the office...have a good night (I am now thinking I may be sitting next to you on my subway ride home!)
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LOL!! Usually not on the subway that late - unless it's on my way back from the gym. God knows I never work that late
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