Are Mammograms Radiation? Are they killing us?

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  • AlohaGirl
    AlohaGirl Member Posts: 213
    edited March 2010

    My DCIS was found on my first mammogram at age 40 so in my case clearly the mammogram didn't cause it.  I'm continuing to get regular mammograms.  My feeling is that they are far more likely to find the cancer early than they are to cause it.  I figure I get more radiation flying on the airplane than I do getting a mammogram.

  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited March 2010

    Certainly it is food for thought!  Mammogram missed my tumor at least 2 years in a row!  We know that from the growth factors of the cancer.  My oncologist told me it is like looking for a cotton ball in a cloud!  I also had ultrasound which missed it at least one year!  Obviously, I don't have a lot of confidence in these tests, as I was very diligent having had fybrocystic breasts for at least 10 years!

    My diagnostic radiologist said he would prefer to see more thermography used!  Check it out.  It isn't harmful and finds "hot spots" much like our military uses heat seeking capabilities.  The only drawback that my oncologist saw was we have no medical tests advanced enough to confirm what thermography might show!  The upside, however, is if one is inclined, you can proceed with alternative measures to fight cancer cells! 

    No more mammo's for me!  Why would I trust them now?

  • Indigoblue
    Indigoblue Member Posts: 274
    edited March 2010

    I cancelled the test.  I am afraid...a coward, I guess.

  • Indigoblue
    Indigoblue Member Posts: 274
    edited March 2010

    My mother had "thermograpy" tests 24 years ago...a waste of effort.  She was later diagnosed with Inlammatory Breast Cancer.  No tests picked it up.  Mammogram may have caused it...I wonder...a Surgeon recognized it, and told us it was the worst Cancer, after almost a year of seeking and searching. 

      miss my Mom...and now, i suffer with this Triple Negative Crap. 

  • makingway
    makingway Member Posts: 799
    edited March 2010
    Indigo-Don't think of yourself as a coward. You are informed, and you know what you need.
  • sas-schatzi
    sas-schatzi Member Posts: 19,603
    edited March 2010

    Yes mammograms deliver ionzing radiation. How much different the new digital  ones deliver  I don't know.  Chest xrays deliver ionzing radiation. Ct scan deliver 200x's the dose of a standard chest xray. MRI 's do not deliver ionizing radiation.Check out the American College of Radiologists(ACR) web page

    There is a WHITE(position) paper on the ACR site that discusses there stand on the new standards recommended by the idiot government group. ACR is very much against the new standards and is working with other groups to get it changed.

    There is also a WHITE paper on safety of the use of all forms of diagnostic imaging that identifies standards that they recommend for training and retraining for certification of  medical students,physicians, radiologists and technicians. The safety referrals identify how important it is to effectively have the dials set right for the size and density of the person. My interpretation, the next time my husband or I get scanned I'm going to ask for the certified radiologist to check the settings, because based on what I read they can leave the setting levels up to the technicians. In working with patients of girth over the years, I  now understand why the readings keep saying "unable  to get adequate blah blah blah". I now want to know what the radiologist says about the settings. As a nurse I never payed much attention, I now realize that there may have not been a radiologist consulted about the settings and that the technicians made the decisions"based on there training".

    Both position papers are a really boring read so you will have to plod through them, but they are factual. Therefore, if you are fearful of exposure at least be educated about your fear., please, then make your decision of what your approach is going to be. The media does not give enough info, I believe, to make an informed choice.

  • KAR
    KAR Member Posts: 225
    edited March 2010

    Im a bit confused, you are scarred that mammograms cause breast cancer?  In my case my first mammo found my cancer and I had only had one other x-ray in my life so its difficult for me to relate.   My advice to someone who is worried about the amt of radiation is to make sure to get a digital mammo in a large breast imaging facility.  This is where you will find the best equipment and the best techs.  The amount of radiation is lower for digital than for plain film, but more views might be necessary with digital so in the long run only slightly lower dose of radiation17% (I believe).  There is a good article on this site BCO about the "benefit of digital mammogram".   I tend to think its more environmental, the air, food, water and of course genetic but thats just my two cents.  Good luck ladies

  • sam52
    sam52 Member Posts: 950
    edited March 2010

    I don't think anyone is saying that mammograms CAUSE bc, but rather that the radiation from them is another possible contributory factor IF other factors are present. Some of us got many years of mammos pre-dx and wonder whether this could have been the thing that tipped the balance.

    For those of us who get annual mammos post dx and treatment, it does seem like a big load of radiation which could potentially add to other risk factors for recurrence.After all, the general population do not get annual mammos on the screening program. I found my tumor myself, so I guess I do not feel the same way about mammos as someone who only found out they had got bc because of being screened.

  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited March 2010

    I am borderline Her2 and turned down chemo.

     I had the standard course of breast radiation.  I have a mammogram every six months.  I have a bone density scan once a year.  I had a colon scan that lasted an hour with fluoroscope going the whole time.  I wore a lead vest to cover my breasts with this last one.  Boy was it difficult to change position on a narrow table while wearing 20 pounds of lead.

    I am extremely uncomfortable with all this radiation but the chance of getting congestive heart failure from Herceptin is at least 11%.  The chance of getting a secondary cancer from all the different types of radiation is undetermined.  Radiation exposure is one of the reasons I am taking Vitamin D.  Vitamin D helps prevent gene breaks.

  • Ina
    Ina Member Posts: 45
    edited March 2010

    I don't really understand who would be scamming women in such a way, or WHY.  This sounds like distorted thinking, or perhaps fear speaking. I know a lot of people mistrust the medical system, but who is going to reap benefit from giving you a mammogram? Unfortunately, breast cancer can be hard to detect, and we have limited means for doing it. I don't know your circumstances, but I think if you were to have cancer and it progressed because you were afraid of testing, you would regret not having the test. 

    I agree with the writer who referred to getting radiation from an airplane flight. I'll do what I need to do to fight cancer. I've seen the results of those women who chose not to be tested.

  • dash
    dash Member Posts: 766
    edited March 2010

    The cancer was found in my breast at my first mammo at age 40. My BS always called me the poster child for mammos. I am grateful to mammography and for getting it done when I did.

  • Indigoblue
    Indigoblue Member Posts: 274
    edited March 2010

    Glory, heaven, and happy...my Oncologist agreed with me about cumulative radiation, and approved the MRI for the Breast.  He understands my fears, and admits, science does not know the ultimate end-result from an over--exposure to radiation.  He is brilliant, and said, MRI does not pick-up irregularities that Digital Mammogram will find...I have dense breast tissue, so my decision makes sense for me. 

    Thank you, wonderful sisters, for your well-informed opinions and help regarding Mammogram and my deep fear that they may cause Breast Cancer.  I still do not know the answer, and likely never will know, for certain.  It is great that we have technical options to helps us diagnose Breast Cancer.  I only wish we were not exposed to Radiation...

  • tibet
    tibet Member Posts: 545
    edited March 2010

    My doctor said radiation from PET/CT scan is less than a flight from US to Europe.

  • makingway
    makingway Member Posts: 799
    edited March 2010

    newalex-Either your doctor is ignorant or he/she is lying to you. Here is an excerpt from the website I posted earlier in this thread.

    We are exposed to radiation from natural sources all the time. The average person in the U.S. receives an effective dose of about 3 mSv per year from naturally occurring radioactive materials and cosmic radiation from outer space. These natural "background" doses vary throughout the country.

    People living in the plateaus of Colorado or New Mexico receive about 1.5 mSv more per year than those living near sea level. The added dose from cosmic rays during a coast-to-coast round trip flight in a commercial airplane is about 0.03 mSv.

    Now compare that with the 'actual' dose from a CT scan.

    Computed Tomography (CT)-Body 10 mSv Comparable to natural background radiation for:          3 years

    Mammography 0.7 mSv Comparable to natural background radiation for: 3 months 

    Safety In Medical Imaging Procedures:
    http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/safety/index.cfm?pg=sfty_xray#5

  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited March 2010

    At what point does it become the straw that breaks the camel's back!

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited March 2010

    So true Carol1949. Whatever happened to "first do no harm?"

  • IllinoisNancy
    IllinoisNancy Member Posts: 722
    edited March 2010

    My very small ILC was found by a routine mammogram.  There was never anything that could be felt and it would have continued to grow had I not had the test. 

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited March 2010

    Whatever happened to "first do no harm?"

    I think there is very little in medicine that has ZERO chance of harm.  You certainly have the option of no screening and no treatment.

    Unfortunately, for radiation, they have found no threshold dose below which there is NO risk.  If we choose life, we all take some degree of risk from the backround radiation we receive. 

    Like most things in life, it is risk vs benefit, and I'm sure there are many unknowns and undefined factors in the equation. Since most of us have some issue with our breasts, we tend to be very conscious of other risk factors.

  • ananda8
    ananda8 Member Posts: 2,755
    edited March 2010

    The important thing is to reduce genetic breaks whether those breaks come from the results of radiation or from the results of chemical exposure.  Genetic breaks interfere with cellular reproduction. 

    Watch this video about how Vitamin D works.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emjCzaHtSrg

    This is a pdf file of the slides shown in Dr. Heaney's YouTube presentation.

    http://www.grassrootshealth.net/media/download/20091103heaney.pdf

  • mozinga
    mozinga Member Posts: 2
    edited March 2010

    Trust me, the techniologists know far more about radiation doses and equipment settings than Radiologists do!!  Radiologists are trained to interpret the studies.  I am a Radiologic Technologist/Mammographer.  During our training and also with our continuing education it is drilled into our heads to use the ALARA principle in all of our imaging studies.  ALARA is an acronym for As Low As Reasonably Achievable, pertaining to x-ray dose.  We are constantly being made aware of the radiation doses we use.  Our mammography equipment is closely monitored and checked for radiation safety.

    My breast cancer was found on a mammogram in 2001at the age of 46 .  Our mammography department has found so many early breast cancers in women under age 50.  I shudder to think what may have happened if I and so many other women like me had not been encouraged to have mammograms before the age of 50.  I take my job very seriously, and consider it part of my job to find these early cancers in women.  Cancers found early have a much better prognosis.  I have seen so many women also that do not have mammograms until a lump is felt.  Sadly, by the time a lump is felt, the cancer has most likely spread to tissue outside of the breast and is much more difficult to treat.  I will still continue to promote mammography and be proud of the part I can do to help women find their breast cancers early enough to be successfully treated!

  • Ezscriiibe
    Ezscriiibe Member Posts: 598
    edited March 2010
    Mozinga, you are my personal hero! Hugs to you! Keep up the good work!
  • AlohaGirl
    AlohaGirl Member Posts: 213
    edited March 2010

    Mozinga, I second Ezscriiibe!  When I had my first mammogram in January 2009 I really appreciated how helpful, supportive and experienced the technologist was.  So important both for protecting the health of women and for making women as comfortable as possible so that they'll come back for their regular screenings.  And since my DCIS was found by my very first mammogram I KNOW it wasn't caused by the mammogram!  As I watch my cousin cope with Stage IV BC I feel so fortunate that the DCIS was found before it had reached invasive stage.  THANK YOU!!!!!

  • dash
    dash Member Posts: 766
    edited March 2010

    Mozinga, Thank you for your passion and dedication to uncover early breast cancer. I was diagnosed at 40 after I went for my first mammo. When my treatment was underway and I had time to catch my breath, I sent a heartfelt thank you note to the radiology center that had caught my cancer.

  • Indigoblue
    Indigoblue Member Posts: 274
    edited March 2010

    I love the Techs, the Radiolotigst, and the Doctors..

    The diagnostic mammogram did NOT pick up my recurrance.  The MRI found it.

    I am not happy about more, and more, and more, and more exposure to Radiation...

    MRI isn't exactly safe either...none of the imaging techniques are good for anyone...including the Techs, the Radiologists and the Doctors...  When I was receiving Radiation Treatments, I was told that the reason the techs seem impersonal and uncaring... is that touching patients day in and day out, actually causes them to have side effects, and cancer. 

    I am scheduled for a Core Biopsy...and more tests.  The Mammograms, and this was a Diagnostic, simply don't always pick up the cancer...and this time, it was found because of previous MRI's that did not show the current enhancements on the MRI.  Cancer is so sneaky!

    Love you all, and thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions!

     Indi

  • iodine
    iodine Member Posts: 4,289
    edited March 2010

    I'm not at all sure where you get your information, on which you base your opinions, very strongly BTW.

    First, radiologists are Doctors (M.D.)

    Second: I haven't found techs to be impersonal, nor avoiding touching.  They DO NOT contract cancer from touching patients, and I am unsure what, if any side effects they could pick up by touching patients.  They go behind a protective screen which prevents any rads from getting to them and when the screen is not practical, they wear lead aprons to protect the important "parts", and prevent infertillity.

    I hope you will be more comfortable as you educate yourself from dependable and Informed sources, not just "someone said".  I do believe that I pick up more rads when I work my gardens than I have had from diagnostic exams.

    On the other hand, I'd rather have had the rads than NOT found my breast cancer.  And that goes for MRI as  well.  Everything, even too much water is bad for us---it's all a trade off, IMO, and one must decide priorities. 

  • Blundin2005
    Blundin2005 Member Posts: 1,167
    edited March 2010

    I am grateful for all of the very good medical information we've learned about through our conversations on these boards.  I think it is safe to say that we may have helped educate the medical professionals struggling through the maze with us.  

    Until a better method of diagnosis is established (it's on the way), I will continue to participate in the yearly squashed boobs routine with ultra sound chaser (or visa versa) and my God awful trans vag ultra sound.  And don't stop there!  My thyroid and bladder now need the same attention.

    Iodine makes good sense.  Seek better sources of information.  This road is hard enough to walk without walking in the garbage of media speculation and churned sound bites. 

    The only glow that I am walking with is NED.  And that glow doesn't keep me away from the garden chores.  Thank God for them even with the radiation. ( In fact I'm attentive to be in the sun between 11 and 1 pm for a minimum of 15 min. with as much skin exposure as possible to help my body store Vit D3.)

     Best wishes to all as always,

    Marilyn 

  • cakeisgreat
    cakeisgreat Member Posts: 660
    edited March 2010

    I'm a one mammo gal...had one at age 37 with no symptoms.  Just went at the suggestion of my gyn at a  yearly checkup.  It was her standard thing to give a script.

    Thank GOD I went because I had cancer there without any symptoms.  That being said, I ended up choosing a bmx and recon, so no more mammos for me which is one of the many reasons why I chose the bmx.  I didnt want to worry every year and be smashed and poked, LOL!

    I am very thankful for my mammo!

  • makingway
    makingway Member Posts: 799
    edited May 2010
    Patient Safety:

    Radiation Exposure in X-ray Examinations

    * What are x-rays and what do they do?
    * Measuring radiation dosage
    * Naturally-occurring "background" radiation exposure
    * X-ray safety
    * X-rays over your lifetime
    * Pregnancy and x-rays
    * Radiation exposure from interventional radiology procedures
    The average person in the U.S. receives an effective dose of about 3 mSv per year from naturally occurring radioactive materials and cosmic radiation from outer space.Upon review and comparison of imaging procedures you will find that the dosage of radiation of a mammogram is NOT equivalent to a day in the sun, nor a plane flight across the USA as the medical technicians tell us.
    http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/safety/index.cfm?pg=sfty_xray#5

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited May 2010
  • Hooponopono
    Hooponopono Member Posts: 36
    edited June 2010
    Overdiagnosis

    HealthDay news imageTHURSDAY, April 22 (HealthDay News) -- A new review suggests that doctors need to address the problem of overdiagnosis in cancer care -- the detection and possible treatment of tumors that may never cause symptoms or lead to death. The review authors found that about 25 percent of breast cancers found through mammograms and about 60 percent of prostate cancers detected through prostate-specific antigen (PSA) tests may be examples of overdiagnosis. And about half of lung cancers detected through some screening tests may also represent overdiagnosis, they added. For several types of cancer -- thyroid, prostate, breast, kidney and melanoma -- the number of new cases has gone up over the past 30 years, but the death rate has not, the authors noted. Research suggests that more screening tests are responsible for the increased diagnosis rate, they explained. "Whereas early detection may well help some, it undoubtedly hurts others," Dr. H. Gilbert Welch and Dr. William Black, of the VA Medical Center in White River Junction, Vt., and the Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, wrote in a news release from the U.S. National Cancer Institute. "Often the decision about whether or not to pursue early cancer detection involves a delicate balance between benefits and harms . . . different individuals, even in the same situation, might reasonably make different choices." In a commentary, Dr. Laura Esserman, of the University of California at San Francisco, and Dr. Ian Thompson, of the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, wrote: "What we need now in the field of cancer is the coming together of physicians and scientists of all disciplines to reduce the burden of cancer death and cancer diagnosis. We must advocate for and demand innovation in diagnosis and management, fueled by science, harnessing modeling, molecular and immunology tools to address this problem." The review is published in the April 22 online edition of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.
    SOURCE: U.S. National Cancer Institute, news release, April 22, 2010

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