the wire placement before the surgery
Has anyone had that? Is it painful? I am going june 3 for the surgery, I asked if they
would numb the area .. I am very sensitive to pain and its scaring me. I dont care once
they put me out, I believe the surgeon said i would get IV sedation after the wire placement.
Please help. thanks so much.
Comments
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If you mean the wires they use to mark the tumor for a lumpectomy, mine wasn't painful at all. They did numb the area, then once the wires were in they taped the wires down (I had to wait a short while after the wire placement -- in fact, I walked from the radiologist's office, where the wires were placed, over to the surgical area, and sat in a special waiting area). I was knocked out for the actual surgery. It was kind of sci-fi looking to see the wires sticking out of my breast and it didn't bother me at all.
I know the level of anxiety is high before surgery but really, my lumpectomy was easy and pain free and smooth. Take a deep breath -- it'll be OK. Best of luck.
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I don't have DCIS (as far as I know), but I did do a survey here in 2006, after I had wire placement prior to an excisional. 38 people replied.
These were the 4 groups. The pain scale was 1-10,10 being the worst imaginable.
a) Injectable anesthesia before wire insertion and pain was tolerable (<=4/10) 19 votes, 50%
b) Injectable anesthesia before wire insertion and pain was NOT tolerable (>4/10) 7 votes, 18%
c) No injectable anesthesia before wire insertion and pain was tolerable (<=4/10) 3 votes, 8%
d) No injectable anesthesia before wire insertion and pain was NOT tolerable (>4-10) 9 votes, 24%.
Things may have changed since 2006. One responder who had trouble (in 2006) said she went to a world-class facility.
So people differ, but the majority of people had a pain score <=4/10.
If you are concerned about this, I would advise having a 'backup' plan before the procedure starts. I was told to 'not move a muscle', so if I have to have this again, will bring bells or something to shake if I have pain. I probably had 'special circumstances' as I had a history of trauma.
My nurse friend said, "There should be no painful procedures." Even if 1 in 1 million people have significant pain with a procedure, they should pay attention, even if the pain is 'in their head'.
At my facility, I found out they did not give IV anesthesia (nor did they do injectable anesthesia) before wire placement because there was no RN or MD present the entire time. (I had a mammo-guided bracketed wire insertion, i.e. 2 wires were inserted to bracket the area before excision.)
Once an anesthesiologist got involved (after wire placement), it was completely smooth sailing for me.
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I won't lie, I HAAAAAAAAAAAATED that part, BUT, it was more the idea of it than any actual pain -- sort of like at the dentist, the sound of the drill is what is so awful, not actual pain.
I asked the doctor and tech if they would mind singing at the top of their lungs while they were going in, to take my mind off it -- and they did. It was quite comical.
The first time I had it done, I wore my iPod and cranked music way up, and that helped too. And yes, they will numb the area... once the anesthetic kicks in, you won't feel any pain at all. If I got through it twice, you will too, I promise!! -
Please make sure they numb the area. My radiologist did NOT numb the area for the wire insertion or dye injection.
I screamed in pain. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news .. but make sure they numb you really well. I actually slapped the techs arm when she tried to calm me down and yelled at her to take her hands off me.
Best of luck,
Bren
PS .. I know it is scary. If you have some anti-anxiety or pain meds, I would take them before I go.
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I actually had a large core needle biopsy. All I know is I had some 4" *thing* sticking out of my chest with a styrofoam cup taped over it. I was numbed with lidocaine before the procedure. I didn't feel a thing when it all went in. It was attached to my marker as well.
Depending on the surgeon and the hospital ... I had called the hospital beforehand and talked about the fact I am on meds for anxiety disorder and sometimes have panic attacks, although I haven't had a PA for months. They put it on my orders so everyone would know that was a possibility. It was like every 5 minutes someone was asking if I was doing okay, LOL. I was told not to take any additional medications as they have a very specific cocktail for sedation. If I started feeling uncomfortable they would call my pre-op nurse to come down to radiology and put meds in the IV.
Then again, I went to pre-op first. My IV and saline were stuck in me first, then I was actually taken on a gurney to the imaging center for the insertion (maybe because it was a needle vs. a wire?).
The whole thing went fine and I never had any pain.
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I had the wire placement and the injection for the SNB without any meds or numbing. It was the worst experience of pain in my life. That said, I agree with all above. Now is the time to have the discussion with your doctor and tell them that you want meds and numbing. Demand it. I went to the "best doctor in the south" so it doesn't matter where or to whom you go. Now studies have been done that say that numbing can be done with the SNB. Demand it.
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Oh Bren... Melissa... why why WHY would they do that without anesthetic??????? You poor girls, I'm so sorry you had to go through that!
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I think at my facility, because of TJC (the Joint Commission, an accreditation agency) regulations, they must have an RN or MD present, and monitoring, if they give IV anesthetic. So its a matter of cost/time.
Why they won't give local? (I had 3 sec with the equivalent of an ice cube beforehand.) I wrote 2 letters to the radiologist (I work there), and after a month, he left a message on my answering machine, "Yes, patient care is important. But if I injected lidocaine beforehand, I'd have to draw up some sodium bicarbonate too." (I'm a pharmacist, and I never have heard of anyone using sodium bicarbonate with lidocaine.) I guess time is money and they have many procedures scheduled, or maybe there is a shortage of properly trained radiologists.
I pointed out that there was one poster here, who some 10 years previously, in about 1995, had a bad time with wire insertion, so, to avoid a repeat of that experience, didn't go to her annual mammos for the next 10years. So when she did have her mammo 10 years later, she had invasive bc.
Other people in 2006 (when I did the poll) wrote letters to their facility and got no reply. So I was lucky I got one, I guess. (I included academic journal references too.) The next biopsy I had, another radiologist tried to inject lidocaine with the finest needle (a TB syringe). I had been so traumatized I pulled out of the mammo/stereotactic machine. They had to hold me in the mammo machine to finish the biopsy (while I was silently crying).
Pain control can affect patient monitoring decisions.
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Yikes! My area was numb, The radiologist/Doctor who did it was also the same one that did my biopsies. She also talked alot with me to get my mind off of it, and it did wonders. I just got back from vacation a few days before, so that was the conversation that we had. Thought it was odd looking having a Dixi cup taped onto area with the wires. Kind of glad it was there, because I had to go to one holding area first, then to the area where they wheeled you into surgery. They had a change of nurses in the OR, so I had to wait an extra hour before going into surgery. It wasn't horrible at all, I thought it was going to be alot worse.
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Hi Crunchy Buddy ... I've been keeping up with you .. and you are sounding good! I hope baby Crunchy isn't too far off!
love you,
Bren
PS .. I can guarantee I'll never go through that again without lots of pain meds and anti-anxiety meds.
PPS .. Leaf .. I was crying for you too! How barbaric are some of these radiologists. I was lucky for the biopsy, the nurse had me wait two weeks so she could schedule me with the most humane radiologist .. wasn't so lucky with the wire insertion guy!
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When I had mine they did not numb the area (except with an ice cube) since they felt that the shot for the anasthesia would be about the same amount of pain as the wire insertion. It hurt some when they inserted the wire but it really wasn't a big deal for me at all. I think being squished in the mammogram machine for so long hurt more than the insertion. Really NOT a big deal for me. So everyone is different, and it may not be bad for you even if you don't have anaesthesia. But if you are more comfortable with a shot of something first ask for it.
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Thank you Bren! I just don't want ANYONE to have a tough time; it sounds like most people don't.
However, in my unscientific 2006 poll, 18% DID have injectable anesthesia beforehand, yet STILL had a pain score >4/10. I'd want that % (with or without injectable anesthesia beforehand) down to ZERO. If I was able to do the poll over again, I'd want to categorize the pain scores more,with an additional category of pain 8-10/10.
I have been lucky that for my core biopsies, my radiologists have been very willing to use an injectable anesthetic. During the wire insertion, they told me 'You must promise not to move a muscle.' I was in so much shock, I couldn't tell them I was in pain without crying, and if I cried I would have moved, ruining the wire insertion. So I bore it in silence. I'm sure I had to space out. I don't know if I could have talked. A few months later I was diagnosed with something close to PTSD. I had previous traumas, but this experience did not help.
If they do give some sort of anesthetic, they need to check if it worked.
I just don't want ANYONE to have a tough time. No one deserves that.
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xoxo Bren!
When I had mine they did not numb the area (except with an ice cube) since they felt that the shot for the anasthesia would be about the same amount of pain as the wire insertion.
Wow, really? Hmm, no wonder the anesthesia shot hurt so badly........... (I didn't mention that part because I didn't want to freak out maryvanessa... it really wasn't THAT bad, it was just worse for me because this last time they had to insert needles/wires in three different places!! YUCK)
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I have always wondered if we would be treated differently if we were all wives of doctors? I would bet a lot of money that any doctor's wife is provided with pain meds and is numbed prior to being injected with wires and injected with a medicine that can make you scream in pain. Just my thoughts.
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maryvanessa,
You need to call the office and ask before hand what type of anesthetic/if any they use before putting the wire in. That should ease your anxiety once you make sure that they do. Also ask them if they have a special chair for you to sit in during the procedure. I sat through the entire thing which made it way easier to hold still for so long. Alot depends on your tolerance of pain. One person's score of 4 might actually be someone elses 1-2. I had a shot of lidocaine and it did not hurt hardly at all. A small pinch and a small stick like a little burn is it. Definately easier than getting a finger prick. I was numb for the wire insertion, didn't feel anything but a little pressure, and actually was able to see them tape the end of the wires that stuck out....after making sure it was in the right place(kind of cool in a freaky way). They said mine had a hook on the end so it would not move from where they placed it inside. I was transported to the surgery center by hospital bus and had conscious sedation for the actual excisional biopsy. Went to sleep....then woke up. Went home and did not even need motrin for any pain. Slight soreness and lots of bruising. I did get a hematoma, but that was not painful. I would totally recommend calling now....you have a long time to wait. If you find out now that they numb you, then you won't spend so much time worrying about that part. It is your right to be comfortable, remember you are paying them! If they have to do an extra step....so be it.....they should want you to be the most comfortable possible. If they don't, maybe it is not the right place for you.
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Crunchy .. I've had the shots before, numerous times when cysts were drained. All were done by my gyno in his office. This was a long time ago. The injections were no better or worse than the needle aspiration itself, and most of the time I preferred to aspirate w/o any anesthetic .. one less needle. But the wire insertion was a whole 'nother ballgame.
Leaf .. I like the idea of a new poll .. using 8-10, as a true pain scale goes from 0-10. Frankly, I would rather have a mastectomy than go through that again.
But .. lots of people are different, we need to keep that in mind, and the doctors are different too. Some doctors, like the one who did my second biopsy, are kindhearted and really do care about the comfort of the patient. Radiologist's in my experience really aren't "people" doctors. They're more like scientists and researchers.
Misty .. I was sitting upright in a chair for the whole thing too.
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Chevfan: I had the styrofoam cups taped over my wires too!!I felt like a science project
Maryvanessa1: Insist on something to numb the area.I was told that the wire insertion was easier than the stereotactic biopsy that I had but I wasn't haven't any of that talk (telling me that didn't bring me comfort). I wanted something to numb both "boobs" before they did the wire insertion.
The Dr. who inserted my wires even numbed the left "boob" more because he knew that side was a little more sensitve for me.So I found both the mammo tech and the Dr to be a comfort to me during the procedure.
On a comforting note, I didn't feel any pain only a little pressure.
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My biopsy hurt so when I went for the wire insertion I told the doctor I wanted to frozen deeply as I did not want to feel it at all. She complied and other than the needles to numb the area it was not bad at all. I was greatly relieved!
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Great advice from everyone (and I too didn't need a single pain pill after the lumpectomy, not even an Advil)... this thread is a great resource. Tagging this thread with the terms "needle loc," "wire loc," and "needle localization" because that's what my medical team called it... for the benefit of anyone searching this topic in the future.
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They gave me a xanax before the wire procedure, so I was pretty calm. (actually it's kind of a blur to me now). I remember that the injection to numb my breast stung. I read somewhere it feels like a bee sting, which it did. (that was the only part that really hurt.)I also read that if you count to 10, by the time you get to 10 it won't hurt anymore. I actually did that, and it was numb well before 10. I had the surgery very soon after that. I think I had a cup, but with the xanax and everything else (versed before surgery, GA in surgery), it is a blur. Thankfully. I had no pain after the surgery at all. I was given oxycodone and told to "stay ahead of the pain," so I took a pill about 4 hours after I got home, but then I forgot to take another one. By the time I remembered, I realized it didn't hurt, so I didn't take anymore after that one. I was really frightened before it all began, but by the time it was in process, I was (happily) out of it, In many ways the stereotactic biopsy was more scary.
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Mine did hurt, don't get me wrong, but it was definitely manageable, and once the wire was in it didn't hurt at all, just when they were inserting it. It may depend on the location. By the way, my dad was a radiologist at the place where I had my wire inserted so I don't think their decision not to use anaesthetic was anything to do with saving money or time, I believe they had my best interests (and those of their other patients) at heart. But I think if the patient prefers a local anaesthetic they should be given one and as I mentioned it may depend on the location of the DCIS. Xanax is a good idea, especially if you are really nervous. (But make sure the anaesthesiologist for your surgery knows you've taken it.)
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I asked both times for a Xanax and they said no, that I had to be "fully alert" for the procedure... lucky gals who were able to take it!
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Hi,I've had 2 excisional biopsies with wire placement before both.The first time was the most painful thing I have ever experienced.No numbing medicine at all.I swore I would never do it again.Unfortunately I had to.The second time which was 4/14/10 I told all the nurses and the doctors that morning how painful my first experience was.They sprayed the area with some numbing med and I had no pain at all.Totally different experience.They say they don't use local anesthetic because it can cause the image on the mammogram to be blurred.I hope you have a good experience with your procedure.
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Just had wire loc and and resection yesterday. I asked for and they gave me a lidocaine local which made all the difference. The last time I had a wire loc I had no anesthetic and waited for surgery, trying not to move, sitting in a chair for over an hour with the wire sticking out. No way I wanted to go through that again. Ask for it. No need to suffer any more than necessary.
Lil
Recurrence 3/2010, wire loc and limited resection 4/19/2010.
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I had a wire insertion but was completely numbed. I was so worked up and nervous that the doctor ordered valum for me prior to the procedure. The radiologist that insert the wire refused to even start the procedure until I told him I couldnt feel my breast at all.
My SNB was aweful.....they told me at the time that it wasnt possible to numb the area, something about it interferring with the radio active substance they inject. I thought it was a load of CRAP when they said it, then after I REALLY thought it was crap....painful is a very mild word when it comes to the SNB injection!!!
You will do fine. Dont be afraid to ask for meds!!!
Jule
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I had a stereotactic needle biopsy and then a wire placement for wide/excisional. I never felt anything at all either time. I hope it goes as well for you. I was so nervous for the first procedure I had my GP give me a prescription for valium. I had taken it, but didn't need it. Prior to surgery its more that you want to distract yourself while they are doing it - kind of like being at the dentist. But there was no pain.
I hope it goes well for you - keep us posted. I bet you'll be fine! Hang in there
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Hi.....I just have to jump here and give you some advice. I had it done with no anesthetic whatsoever and will never do that again! It's barbaric, to put it bluntly, to have a wire inserted into your breast and not expect it to hurt like hell! I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I believe in honesty and I can't begin to tell you how angry I was after having it done. The dr. who performed the procedure told me the injection to numb the breast was just as bad and having the needle inserted. But I will never believe that!! I had a stereotactic biopsy first and was not uncomfortable and of course, was numbed for that...so I was expecting the wire placement to be a piece of cake. The dr. had to insert and remove the wire mulitple times until she had it placed exactly where it needed it to be. I became faint and thought I was going to be sick.....all of which could've been avoided. I can assure you, if there is a next time, I will be sure to go someone who will accomodate me and not have to endure that again!!
I just want you to know there are options and do yourself a favor and be sure you are anesthetized for this procedure....in this day and age, there is no reason any of us have to be subjected to anything like that.
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Hi- I was a complete nervous wreck more about the wires than the actual surgery. They gave me atavan (wish it was stronger) and believe it or not.....IT WAS A PIECE OF CAKE! I know everyone has different stories and some can really freak you out but I was numbed and the wire is so thin I had 2 placed and they do tape it down, really it was quite easy and no pain at all. The surgery too was pain free and I did not take anything not even over the counter meds. Good luck and let us know how it goes.....June
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my wire localization was very similar to my stereotactic core biopsy, except sitting instead of laying on my stomach. I was so numb that I really didn't have any pain, just a lot of pressure. The hardest thing was just sitting still for so long with my head turned to the side and being compressed firmly into the mammo machine.
anne
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I actually fainted during the procedure so I don't even remember it except having those 2 wires sticking out of me and having to walk from the breast imaging center into the operating room area.
I've always described it as a root canal of the breast. It was that pleasant.
Don't mean to scare you but everyone is pretty honest here on these boards and as you can see, some did not have bad experiences at all.
I might have to be going through this again and this time I will request a xanax and anesthetic.
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