Triple Negative Breast Cancer and Chemotherapy
Comments
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mom2bnetatoviex3 - what dose of Aspirin will you be taking....one of the regular 325 mg or the 81 mg low dose? I don't see my onc again until July but want to start taking after I'm finished with rads. I'll probably check with my GP about that one.
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Making Treatment Decisions print close Modified Citrus Pectin Other common name(s): citrus pectin, Pecta-Sol®, MCP
Scientific/medical name(s): none
Description
Modified citrus pectin (MCP) is a form of pectin that has been altered so that it can be more easily absorbed by the digestive tract. Pectin is a carbohydrate that is made of hundreds or thousands of sugar molecules chemically linked together. It is found in most plants and is particularly plentiful in the peels of apples, citrus fruits, and plums. In modified citrus pectin, the pectin has been chemically altered to break its molecules into smaller pieces. Pectin in its natural form cannot be absorbed by the body and is considered a type of soluble dietary fiber, whereas modified pectin can be absorbed into the bloodstream.
Overview
Animal studies and a couple of uncontrolled human studies have found that MCP may inhibit the spread of prostate cancer and melanoma to other organs. However, there have been no controlled clinical studies to prove this effect in humans.
How is it promoted for use?
Proponents claim that modified citrus pectin slows or stops the growth of melanoma, a dangerous form of skin cancer, and metastatic prostate cancer (prostate cancer that has spread). Some also claim that a compound found in MCP strengthens the cancer cell–killing ability of T-cells, cells that also protect against germs.
What does it involve?
Modified citrus pectin is available as a capsule or a powder. The dose suggested by manufacturers for the powder is 5 grams (nearly a fifth of an ounce) mixed with water or juice taken 3 times a day with meals. For capsules, the suggested dose is 800 milligrams (mg) 3 times a day with meals.
What is the history behind it?
Pectin is commonly used as a gelling agent for canning foods and making jellies. It is also used widely in the production of food and cosmetics and as an ingredient in some anti-diarrhea medicines. In the past 10 years, the modified form of pectin has been investigated for anti-cancer properties.
What is the evidence?
Several animal studies found that MCP helped reduce the spread of prostate, breast, and skin cancer. Animals with these types of cancer that were fed MCP had a much lower risk of the tumor spreading to the lungs. For example, one study examined the effects of MCP on lung metastases from melanoma cells. Researchers injected mice with melanoma cells. In the mice that were also given MCP, significantly fewer tumors spread to the lungs than in the mice that did not receive the drug. When lung tumors did develop in the mice treated with MCP, the tumors tended to be smaller than those that formed in untreated animals.
These studies appear to show that MCP makes it difficult for cancer cells that break off from the main tumor to join together and grow in other organs. However, in most animal studies, MCP had no effect on the main tumor, suggesting that it may only be useful for preventing or slowing the growth of metastatic tumors in very early stages of development.
Recent laboratory studies of human and animal cells have provided information on how MCP might slow the spread of cancer. MCP appears to attach to galectin-3, a common chemical in many cells. Galectin-3 is present in abnormally high levels in many cancers and plays an important role in the growth, survival, and spread of cancer cells.
Although animal and cell studies are quite encouraging, very little information is available about whether MCP is effective in humans. In one published clinical trial, 10 men with prostate cancer were treated with MCP after standard treatment failed. In 7 of these men, blood tests found prostate-specific antigen (PSA, a marker of prostate cancer growth). Their PSA doubling time (a measure of how fast PSA goes up) improved in comparison with measurements done before taking MCP, indicating that MCP may have a slowing effect on the cancer's growth. This study had no control group (in this case, a group of men who did not take MCP), which limits the strength of its conclusions on MCP's effectiveness. It also did not measure survival or other important endpoints. However, taken with the information gained from animal studies, it suggests that MCP may have a role in reducing the growth and spread of cancer. Randomized controlled trials looking at larger groups of people must be done before any firmer conclusions can be reached.
Are there any possible problems or complications?
This product is sold as a dietary supplement in the United States. Unlike drugs (which must be tested before being allowed to be sold), the companies that make supplements are not required to prove to the Food and Drug Administration that their supplements are safe or effective, as long as they don't claim the supplements can prevent, treat, or cure any specific disease.
Some such products may not contain the amount of the herb or substance that is written on the label, and some may include other substances (contaminants). Actual amounts per dose may vary between brands or even between different batches of the same brand.
Most such supplements have not been tested to find out if they interact with medicines, foods, or other herbs and supplements. Even though some reports of interactions and harmful effects may be published, full studies of interactions and effects are not often available. Because of these limitations, any information on ill effects and interactions below should be considered incomplete.
Citrus pectin is categorized as "generally regarded as safe" by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, When MCP is used as intended, side effects rarely occur. However, some people may experience stomach discomfort after taking MCP. There have been a few case reports in which asthma developed in people after exposure to powdered pectin. Modified citrus pectin may cause serious allergic reactions in those who are allergic to citrus fruits.
Relying on this type of treatment alone and avoiding or delaying conventional medical care for cancer may have serious health consequences.
Additional Resources
More information from your American Cancer Society
The following information on complementary and alternative therapies may also be helpful to you. These materials may be found on our Web site (www.cancer.org) or ordered from our toll-free number (1-800-ACS-2345).
References
Baldwin JL, Shah AC. Pectin-induced occupational asthma. Chest. 1993; Dec; 104:1936-1937.
Cohen AJ, Forse MS, Tarlo SM. Occupational asthma caused by pectin inhalation during the manufacture of jam. Chest. 1993;103:309-311.
Ferdman RM, Ong PY, Church JA. Pectin anaphylaxis and possible association with cashew allergy. Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2006; 97:759-760.
Guess BW, Scholz MC, Strum SB, Lam RY, Johnson HJ, Jennrich RI. Modified citrus pectin (MCP) increases the prostate-specific antigen doubling time in men with prostate cancer: a phase II pilot study. Prostate Cancer Prostatic Dis. 2003;6:301-304.
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. Pectin. Accessed at: http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69327.cfm on June 10, 2008.
Nangia-Makker P, Hogan V, Honjo Y, et al. Inhibition of human cancer cell growth and metastasis in nude mice by oral intake of modified citrus pectin. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2002;94:1854-1862.
PDRHealth. Modified Citrus Pectin. Accessed at: http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/mod_0175.shtml on June 10, 2008.
PDRHealth. Pectin. Accessed at: http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/pec_0198.shtml on June 10, 2008.
Pienta KJ, Naik H, Akhtar A, et al. Inhibition of spontaneous metastasis in a rat prostate cancer model by oral administration of modified citrus pectin. J Natl Cancer Inst. 1995;87:348-353.
Platt D, Raz A. Modulation of the lung colonization of b16-f1melanoma cells by citrus pectin. J Natl Cancer Inst. 1992;84:438-442.
University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Complementary/Integrative Medicine Education Resources (CIMER). Modified citrus pectin. Accessed at: http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/CIMER/display.cfm?id=89391394-4477-426D-B2BE4320C6952470&method=displayFull&pn=6EB86A59-EBD9-11D4-810100508B603A14 0n June 10, 2008.
Yu LG, Andrews N, Zhao Q, et al. Galectin-3 Interaction with Thomsen-Friedenreich Disaccharide on Cancer-associated MUC1 Causes Increased Cancer Cell Endothelial Adhesion. J Biol Chem. 2007;282:773-781.
Note: This information may not cover all possible claims, uses, actions, precautions, side effects or interactions. It is not intended as medical advice, and should not be relied upon as a substitute for consultation with your doctor, who is familiar with your medical situation.
Last Medical Review: 11/01/2008
Last Revised: 11/01/2008www.sourcenaturals.com PectaSol
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OK, above is the information on MCP. I didn't bother to edit out the HTML code, so sorry for some of the "garble". I ordered mine online.
www.sourcenaturals.com Product is called PectaSol.
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riley,
I would never question your choices in anything. It is your right and I respect that. Your reasons seem perfectly sound to me and I am always interested in learning about what measures other people are taking to improve their odds.
For my own edification I want to be sure I understand your situation. Are you in a clinical trial that has you receiving treatment neoadjuvantly? I recall you mentioned putting yourself at a grade three aggressiveness (Ki-67 of 35%?) and that you also said your tumor was fast growing (my Ki-67 was 99%, so I KNOW fast growing!). BUT, have you actually had it out yet? I'm not sure I remember reading if you had had surgery. I read so many posts in so many forums and websites that sometimes my head feels like it may explode!
OK, just reread your Mar. 2 post. You are doing it neoadjuvantly to monitor chemo's effectiveness by throwing the big guns at it. Good luck to you. Where are you being treated?
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Thanks for the info Heidi! I think I maybe looking for that pectin stuff even though I am done with chemo..and surgery..may stop at our local health food store and see if they have it...though it seems to be something you take around surgery time.....man...those dang rats get tested all the time don't they?
My question is..why don't the breast surgeons./oncs..suggest this? I realize that it is best to not really take anything during chemo (I didn't)..thank God for this forum..I wouldn't know much of anything if I didn't read things on here..
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Sugar..I was taking the 81 aspirin..but switched to one 325 per day,,,,I also started folic acid today to...funny..but we tn's have about million vitamins in our medicine drawer...I do know that I have been exposed to alot of colds but haven't even had a sniffle...yet!
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Titan, did you doctor put you on 325 mg? I'm thinking the aspirin would be good for my heart as heart disease runs in my mom's family. Nobody has bc in our family so this one came out of the blue!!
Sherri
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MCP is suggested prior to surgery but it still should be able to bind to any residual CTCs, so that is why I take it, despite being done with treatment. I could only find it online.
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hhfheidi- that eagle picture is quite amazing, glad you posted it.
I had a Ki67 of 84. I have researched and bugged my oncologist to death with questions about it. He said he doesn't find it particularly useful in treatment unless there is a real question of whether someone would benefit from chemo. What I can't get him to tell me, (and can't find in any of the studies) is the mortality rate in conjunction with Ki67. We both know the higher the number, the more aggressive it is. But chemo is very good for fast growing cells. I have decided to not research it anymore. I can't change it. My treatment won't change because of it. I can't make it smaller. I'm just going to finish chemo, do rads, and daily exercise and nutrition. But I know what you mean about it nagging at the back of your mind......
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Shout out to Payton! What are you doing?
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Hey Titan- Oh boy...I have been back and forth to Dr.s and surgeons..calling nurses..lab work having tantrums you name it. I will be having sx on Tuesday to remove the internal mammary node. If they can spot the other near that one they will grab it too. I have been trying to figure all this out but I don't want to go againest the advice of my onc and 2 others. The all believe the best thing to do is this sx. I wanted to wait maybe 2 months and rescan but they all seem to feel it is best to get it and see what we are dealing with. I have been very emotional at times so I have been busy walking the dog and outside stuff. Not ignoring you guys but its hard to sign on and not roam the net for info. Now whats up w/ apples??? I just bought a big bag.
Oh and my youngest son finished up b-ball. they lost their tourney game.. How is your son doing Titan/? Is he helping coach?
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crs 319,
All of the discussions on Ki-67 prognosis I have read appear to be in conjunction with neoadjuvant chemotherapy. If it goes down with treatment (pCR) the DFS and OS appear to be higher. I haven't read anything about its prognosis in the adjuvant setting other than it's usefulness as an indicator of tumor aggressiveness.
Like you, I try not to dwell on it, other than wondering why neo wasn't mentioned to me as an option. I have to say though, that I was glad to get that sucker out ASAP, and chemo has to have an easier time knocking out aggressive cells than solid tumors.
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Agree Heidi....triple neg tumors grow to damn fast to leave them in there hanging around..My bs told me I had cancer on a Wed. and he took it out on Friday..it was awesome..I was so glad to get rid of that thing..I felt 100% better once it was out...and by the way...my company is looking for the fruit pectin for me...they did some research on it...I think we should sell it if we can get it in.some things though are just not available except on line and I wonder about that...same with pomagrante seeds
My daughter just got engaged tonight! We are all crying!
No my son doesn't coach..he was home on spring break and went to a couple of practices with his old high school team. We are in tournaments now...next game is Tuesday and I fear it will be our last one. My son plays intramurals in college..not on the college team. It's HARD to play in college..he is at a very small private school but you still have to be pretty good to make the team...but you know what..he needs to get a good degree....after high school you have to be pretty good to make a college team
Payton...maybe it is good thing to get those damn glands out of there! TN just grows to fast...get rid of that crap...I know I'm not a doctor but dang, get that junk out while you can
My daughter just got engaged tonight also! Fun stuff!
Oh..and Payton..I thought you said you were going to have SEX on Tuesday...and I was thinking..you go girl!
And there is nothing wrong with eating apples..I eat one a day....I really like the Jazz apples from Washington State..they are awesome...and apples ARE good for you....just wash them.
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Glad to see I was not the only one with SeX on my mind...
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I sooo wish it was SEX on Tuesday LMAO!!!
I know how hard school and sports are. My guys are in private school and it seems like they are taking college classes at times. Not to knock other schools because I am sure its the norm to load these kids up w/ homework. My fith grader can have over 2 hours a night at times. We have a GREAT group of teachers for 6th, 7th and 8th and they do allow class time so the homework burden isn't so much. It's all about time management. Alkthough it seems inmy house when the boys have 2 hours of football practice 5 days a week the grades are fine but if they arent so busy the grades start to slip.
Congrats for your daughter!!!!
the sun is out and I am loving it!!! So I am going to go take a stroll around the neighborhood.
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JaniceW- Hello there. I joined in December of 2009, so I still consider myself a newbie.
How have you been? I don't see a lot a activity from you since you started this topic in July of 2009.
We all seem to be doing our own thing on here now, but I still think about you. I truly hope you are OK.
Tons of hugs to you.
Puddin'
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That's right..shout out to Janice! Where are you?
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Dear Titan--the MCP seems to only be available online. Best prices depend also on brand.
You mention that you take a lot of vitamins. I was wondering if you would share your protocol. I am taking a lot of stuff--cobbled together a protocol from medical and naturopathic consults, but I am having trouble sticking to it because so many items are "empty stomach" by two hours many times a day.
We have similar dx and also in March 09.
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Oh yes..March is the "bad" month...will be glad to move on to April...I don't know if I take alot of vitamins but is seems like a lot.
Every morning, I take 1 325 aspirin, 1 biotin, 1 calcium w/D; one multivitamin, every night I take 1 5000 IU's D-3, 1 folic acid and 1 calcium w/D. My Vit D level went from 41 to 53 in 12 weeks on the 5000 D'3. I'm hoping to be up to at least over 60 at the next check.
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Hi Guys,
Just got back from my three month follow-up medical oncologist's appt. I asked about the aspirin and he smiled in a non-committal sort of way. Said "aspirin is good for a lot of things"
, which is pretty much what I expected him to say (he has a sense of humor, and I like that). He said that if I wanted to take a baby aspirin once a day he was fine with that (I won't) and that chances are the Aleve I take for my neck each day has as much going for it as the aspirin (until another "study" comes out saying something else--- we know how that is).
Anyway, he agreed to having me get a CAT scan if I wanted one, even though it is not "Standard of Care". He knows that I am tenacious in staying on top of my tx, and is very reasonable in how he handles all my questions and concerns. Oh yeah, he's also cute.
Anyway, I am currently scheduled for a CAT scan on April 1st (no foolin'). He prefers to wait at least five months after chemo to reduce the chance of any false positives so a more accurate picture is obtained.
So, I wait with bait on my breath (I mean with baited breath) until then. He doesn't think anything is going to show up, but knows that patients like myself require a bit of "closure" (hate that word) in order to wrap up their cancer tx into a tidy package in preparation for flushing it down the toilet (figuratively speaking).
So, what do you think? Should I be a nervous wreck for the next three weeks or just just carry on like I'm "cured?" I can handle being a nervous wreck the day of the scan... I think. In any event, there's always Xanax, right?
I'm thinking this is one of those "be careful what you wish for" deals...
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crs 319,
I talked to my onc about Ki-67 today. He said, in my case, getting the tumor out ASAP was the thing to do. He confirmed my thoughts that if it had been a larger tumor or very close to the chest wall neo may have been the way to go. But in small tumors he saw no compelling reason to keep such an aggressive animal intact. In fact, he said something that I hadn't considered before. He said that when large tumors are shrunk by neo it can be harder to get clear margins because it's harder to determine where the original tumor was and be sure that all of the "satellite cells" have been gathered.
So, that made me feel better about my situation.
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Ok Heidi...I have been thinking about the scan thing also..my onc said I could have one too...maybe I will after you have yours!
I'm just not ready to freak out again right now..I see both bs and onc and a mammo in May...if everything goes well there...maybe I will consider a scan...
Meanwhile, we are here for you if you start to freak badly about your scan...
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I had my rad onc last week, my med onc today, and my surgeon Mar. 24...so right after that will be the scan, not unlike your scenario.
So, guess I'm the guinea pig, huh?
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Yes Heidi you are! Thanks!
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Hi! I am slated for a "restaging" scan after I finish chemo just as a matter of course. Maybe it is because I had a positive sentinel node. My last chemo is March 18th, then a scan will be done, then this dang port will be removed, then I can get on with the next 45 years of my life... I am very nervous about the scan.
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Thank you hhfheidi, sharing your info does help. My docs also said get the tumor out asap and then bombard the little suckers that might be left over. I am so happy that most all of us are finishing up. I'll never stopped being wary and watchful but oh, just to feel good and have the damned port out will be marvelous.
Violet, good grief girl, you are almost there!!!!! HOORAY! Let me know how easy the port removal is. Mine is set for April 28th and I cant wait. My doc said he could do it in his office under local but I am a chicken and opted for OR.
Titan, congratuations on the engagement. It is so awesome to see our kids happy!
Love and support to all of you!
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Wow, I've been away for a few days and so much has happened around here! Bummer that we've "welcomed" a few new TN groupies, but I guess the more the merrier, right!?
hhfheidi - I guess it's just you and me in the elite Ki-67 club - mine was 100% - GAAHHH!!! I don't remember seeing p53 on my path report- I'll have to look for that one.
And wow, an EAGLE? Yikes! It's beautiful but I'm terrified of little pet cockatiels, LOL!
Titan - peeing on apple trees??? Hahahaha - I know what you mean, but I LOL trying to picture it!
Queenlurker - I'm in for Paris!
I hate to be a downer, but I think the curcumin thing is overrated. I posted an article, I think on the alternative forum, that said in order to be effective you'd have to take it by shovel-fuls. Use it as a seasoning or supplement by all means, but unfortunately it may not be the magic bullet we all desperately want.
I just got back from my CT scan to follow up long nodules, and I'm just wasted. Is it too early in the day to have a bottle (oops - I mean glass!) of wine and a few pee-free apples? I'll skip the raw hamburger, thanks anyway - ewwww!
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Hi Girls!
I am back from surgery. I went in Tuesday and got out Thursday. I was all set to leave Tuesday at 5pm when all of a sudden I started to vomit and didnt stop for 12 hours. I tried to tell them the couldnt wait 6 hours between the anti nausea meds..but hell what do I know??? Thats what happens when you deal with a heart surgeon and not the onc..I am so very thankful to be home..
They went after just 1 node, the pathologist was in the OR and stated that it looked cancerous so they would stop there instead of tering through the rest of the area and causing more pain. The results should be in today but to a different onc since mine is in Rome..I figure I have waited this long I will continue to do so this weekend. As long as I don't hear it's cancer i can still hope I am cancer free. But dont worry bcuz if it has returned I am going to knock the p!ss out of it.
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OK, thought it might be time for another "guess the critter" photo.... Titan? I'm designating myself as the official "take our minds off cancer" person... when possible. Plus, I enjoy photography.
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Those are some cute little foxes! Where did they come from?
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