ILC is so sneaky!

caltex_catlady
caltex_catlady Member Posts: 136

I've been reading the boards for a few weeks but am just now up to writing in myself. My apologies if this gets long-winded, but it does go to my point of the sneakiness of ILC and the accidental nature of being dianosed.

I was diagnosed with ILC (as well as LCIS) on January 14, but that wasn't the beginning. Back in early November, I had a routine follow-up with a blood specialist/oncologist I've been seeing once a year for several years because I have some vague benign condition that causes excessive platelets. The assistant mistakenly told me to take off everything from the waist up, thinking I was one of the doctor's breast cancer patients. I didn't remember having to do that before, but I thought maybe she wanted to check lymph nodes. When the doctor came in, she was surprised but said as long as I was undressed, I might as well get a manual exam. I usually get all ob-gyn stuff done once a year in October, but I'd been on vacation and hadn't done anything yet except get my mammogram the week before.By the way, that mammogram had come back clear, although they noted my dense tissue.

I remember very well the point in the exam when I noticed she was spending a lot of time in this one area in the left breast. I had had a biopsy on that side (although in a different spot) six years ago (3/04) because calcifications were seen on the mammogram (dx was atypical lobular hyperplasia), so that made the anxiety kick in a little. She did find a palpable lump this time.

Because of my family history (mom dx with ILC in 11/00--doing OK now, sister dx originally in 5/05 as gastric cancer then reclassed much later as breast primary--died in 2008), the doctor put me in for an ultrasound. I did that the following Monday. The ultrasound picked up a cyst, and I think normally doctors would just say, oh it's a cyst so you don't have to worry, but my doctor requested a core biopsy.

The person doing the biopsy did an ultrasound first to confirm what they'd seen before, although she also felt the lump. She said what she saw on the ultrasound didn't look fluid-filled like a cyst. She did a core biopsy on the lump.

Then the results from that came back as atypical lobular hyperplasia. Again, my doctor didn't just stop there but referred me for a surgical consult, although she did repeat that ALH isn't cancer or even pre-cancer.

The surgeon also felt the lump. We made plans for a surgical biopsy, but because of the December holidays, I couldn't get in the schedule until Jan. 8.

On biopsy day, the surgeon came in beforehand to magic-marker me. She couldn't find the palpable lump that everybody, including her, had felt before. She thought maybe it was a cyst after all, now gone, and that the biopsy just happened to have struck a goldmine of ALH. I wanted to go ahead and have it (whatever it was) taken out anyway, as long as I was already prepped and ready to go. She agreed and said she'd take some tissue in the area we thought was where the lump was before. She had a breast radiologist come in a confirm the ultrasound in the OR. She said there was definitely a cyst in there.

During the procedure, the surgeon did find a cyst and removed it while she was in there. She also took a random amount of tissue from the questionable area.

When I got my path report, it showed that it was the cyst that showed ILC as well as LCIS. I think that surprised everyone. The other tissue showed the usual ALH. The ILC tumor was 1.5 cm but did not have clean margins. It was ER+ and HER2-.

Knowing that ILC can be sneaky and show up on the other side at some point (as well as being really hard to spot), the surgeon and oncologist discussed the option of single or bilateral mastectomy, in addition to lumpectomy. I've already had two sites on the left side showing abnormal behavior at this point, so I ruled out lumpectomy. Then the big question was one lump or two.

The oncologist had put me in for an MRI, so I decided to do that and see if it showed signs of anything going on on the right side, to help me decide. You can only get MRIs during a certain point in your cycle, so I had to wait for that. I finally had the MRI on 2/4. That was an interesting experience.

Just a couple of hours after I'd gotten back to work after the MRI, I got a call from the nurse practitioner who's acting as a coordinator. She said she'd gotten a call from the breast radiologist already because there were a couple of areas that "lit up" on the right side (the supposedly healthy side) as well as a couple on the left. At the least, I'd need to have those biopsied. With my family history and knowing the sneakiness of ILC, that confirmed my leaning toward double mastectomy. The ultimate biopsy, I guess.

Now I'm finally scheduled for Feb. 23 for the bilateral. The waiting is the hardest part (well, I haven't been through the other part yet, so we'll see). I really want to find out if there's been any spread to the nodes and what other treatments I need. I'm just over a month in from diagnosis now, so time has helped things sink in. Still, let's get going on this thing. I can't get past it until I get through it.

I also saw a plastic surgeon a couple of weeks ago, but he wouldn't be available on the 23rd, and I'd rather get going now than wait until he's available at the same time as the other surgeon. I can worry about reconstruction later. For my body type, he recommended an expander then implants, and I'm OK with that.

So if the assistant hadn't accidentally had me undress and the oncologist done the exam, or the onco persisted after the ultrasound said it was "just a cyst" and referred me for the ultrasound then the surgery, or the surgeon go ahead and operate even though the lump seemed to be gone, or the doctor allowed an MRI to get the full picture... It all seems accidental. I'd rather get going now, at age 50, than have it be more advanced by the time it was more definitive.

Like other people have said, this is a club you never wanted to be in, but it's full of wonderful people. I take strength already from you, and I hope I'll be able to pass it on to someone else, too.

Comments

  • Wonderland
    Wonderland Member Posts: 3,288
    edited February 2010

    Catlady,

    I've never posted on this forum because I had IDC but I felt I had to respond to your post.

    People are placed in our lives for a reason. It may seem accidental and random, but it's not. Your Guardian Angel (or whatever you may chose to call her) is taking care of you.

    My journey started when my doctor's nurse reminded me that I had not had my routine mammogram yet for the year. I had been OK (just very tired) and I had no palable lump, but she was right. I made my appointment that day! Thank goodness I did because all hell broke loose after the mammo. My Guardian Angel placed the nurse in my life at the right moment.

    Good luck on the 23th. You will be in my prayers.

    Wonderland

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited February 2010

    Yes it is sneaky! I had a clean mammogram 6 months before being diagnosed. Then I had a bilateral mastectomy and 10 months later found more off to one side just under my arm.  Luckily both times I caught it at very small size but the one under my arm had not been detected by the onc team I was working with and could only be felt when my arm was down. I found it when I reached up there to scratch a little itch. I thank God for that little itch that day. It was right next to a lymph node.

  • suzieq60
    suzieq60 Member Posts: 6,059
    edited February 2010

    Wonderland, Merliee: Mine was picked up my routine mammogram too. Lucky it wasn't due until next year!!

    CatLady,

    You are so lucky with what happended that day. Good luck for your surgery.

    I'm also worried about the sneakiness of lobular cancer - I had a lumpectomy but they found extensive LCIS, which is not actually carcinoma but neoplasia. I saw a new breast surgeon because I wanted a second opinion on the LCIS and I want an MRI - especially on my other 'good' breast. She said I can have one in October, after all my current treatment is over.

    Sorry you lost your sister.

     Sue

  • cathmg
    cathmg Member Posts: 278
    edited February 2010

    Hi all,

    IlC is VERY sneaky-my tip off was a dimple on my breast. My mammogram I had for said dimple was "clear." An ultrasound showed something that led to a core biopsy, and after a bilateral mastectomy the tumor was found to be 5 cm! That's huge! It probably had been there for quite awhile. I wonder why me gp never had me do an ultrasound or digital mammogram, given very dense breast tissue...she's not my doctor anymore, and I know more about breast cancer than I ever could have imagined.

    Best to all,

    Catherine

  • Gitane
    Gitane Member Posts: 1,885
    edited February 2010
    Your story is amazing Caltex,  there were so many steps along the way where it might have turned out differently and not been treated.  It is such a shame that you are joining us here, yet it seems so fortunate that it was caught now.  I have to say, with ILC being so hard to find, it's these persistent doctors and radiologists who have to be our saviors.  Even with this, most of us wish it had been caught at a much earlier stage.  All the best as you go through surgery.  Keep in touch here.  We need one another.  Hugs.
  • Cecilia1949
    Cecilia1949 Member Posts: 10
    edited February 2010

    I understand your feelings. I had a mammo in Aug 2006, the radiologist asked for a repeat, nothing to rush in and get done.  Had the second in Sept 2006 after I reminded the radiology dept that the dr. had asked for a repeat.  Again, nothing really visible, but the radiologist this time saw "something", so he called me up to radiology for an ultrasound.  NOTHING palpable or visible on ultrasound (I work in the hospital).  He took me in and showed me a tiny place on the film that looked "fan-like" that he was worried about and recommended an "open" biopsy.  By now, I knew what was coming, as nurse I know how doctors think.  Long story short, the tumor was 2 cm and the cancer was invasive.  I opted for bilateral also.

  • Char2010
    Char2010 Member Posts: 532
    edited February 2010

    I agree about ILC being "sneaky".  I have just been diagnosed with ILC.  Getting a biopsy on another mass (in the same breast) that they feel is benign, but just in case.  How does one decide between a lumpectomy (if that is an option) and a mastectomy?  And a bileteral if only one breast has c.

  • susaloh
    susaloh Member Posts: 103
    edited February 2010

    My Guardian Angel must have been off duty on the relevant days.....Those decisive moments that went right for you went wrong for me, I am afraid....IF the doctors hadn´t been on holiday on the day I called in because of this sudden hardening, and IF the assistant hadn´t told me "But you had your mammogramm just 10 days ago and that was clear, and the hardening must be a bruise of the mammogramm" and IF I after so many other appointments that year I hadn´t fixed just the next appointment coincidentally at his other surgery, where he was busier and hadn´t got my file, and IF the hardening by then hadn´t turned symmetrical so it wouldn´t stick out anymore......and IF he hadn´t refused to do an US, because the mammogramm was only 6 weeks ago....

    If there hadn´t been these and so many more coincidences I would have been diagnosed many months earlier. But would it have made a difference? I was told by several doctors, that my ILC must have been there at least 10 years ago, so it probably didn´t start spreading only in the last 10 months.....

    And ILC continues to be sneaky for me: If just now  I hadn´t had metastasis in the ovaries, one of them a soft round thing of 8 cm diameter (which had been unvisible at the last gyn checkup 8 months ago), which finally made my tumor markers go slightly up, they wouldn´t have done CTs which finally showed metastasis to the bones and possibly to the lung (still waiting for interpretation of results) - tumor markers might have only gone up when my bones or my lungs looked like this poor ovary - because I didn´t feel anything! 

    Even with this second proof of the way ILC grows, I had to insist on the CT, which now shows the metastasis - the bone scintigramm which was done additionally doesn´t show anything and the  routine exam, x-rays of the lungs, probably would have been clear, too.....

    So I guess I should call myself lucky, the ovaries were easy to take out and to the other organs no damage has been done yet. But I´m finding it hard to see it that way, I am grieving for my life right now....

  • AnacortesGirl
    AnacortesGirl Member Posts: 1,758
    edited February 2010

    It never feels right to put the word "lucky" anywhere close to the word "cancer" but sometimes it just seems to fit.  Why else would everything go right for some ladies and wrong for others?

    Caltrex -

    I'm glad that you were surrounded by such persistent and knowledgable people.  To have all them working together and not giving up till they found the right dx -- how do you possibly tell them "thank you" and have that be enough?

    BTW - welcome to the boards!

    susaloh -

    I'm sorry that you're story hasn't been as easy.  It's good that they paid attention to the tumor markers since they can fluctuate so much but it is disheartening that you had to be the one to insist on the CT.

    My luck was pretty limited.  I was due for a mammo but had put it off for a couple of months while my mom went through her dx and surgery for stage 1 IDC.  When I went in the radiologist who had been reading my mammos for years was off.  The radiologist who was backfilling saw 3 tiny dots which she felt were microcalcifications and "clustered".  She told me that normally she wouldn't be concerned but she also reviewed my family history.  She gave me the option to get a biopsy or wait 6 months.  She also added that if it were her -- she'd want to know.  Well that was a no-brainer for me.  Let's go with the biopsy.

    The stereotactic biopsy didn't work.  Breasts were too dense or too much ILC (not that they knew that at the time) and all they could see was snow when they tried to look from both directions.  Off to a surgeon consult.  Was I lucky on this day?  I think so.  I had been having pain in my left breast for a week during the last couple of months.  The day I was in her office it was a full blown display.  The pain was there, it was hard, it was red and she could feel a lump under my arm (I had been checking but didn't every catch it before).  That was all she needed to get me scheduled for a excisional biopsy the next day.

    Path came back with the multiple ILC tumors and that started me down the road to getting the MRI and other scans to determine that I was locally advanced.

    During my neoadjuvant chemo I've had to go back for mammos and US'es to check on progress and that original radiologist has been the one to do these.  He always seems to minimize the nodes and he never seems to find the tumors on US.  Yet the US I had at the start of chemo, with the female radiologist, they clearly found the tumors.  Maybe he's OK with IDC and other types of BC but I no longer trust him.  For my final US during chemo I'm going back to the other radiologist.

    Unfortunately the medical personnel you get dealt can really make a difference with ILC.

  • sueinfl
    sueinfl Member Posts: 258
    edited February 2010

    I have posted about this before. I had a mammo in Nov.08 and was called back for a repeat of my left breast. Different angle and then given the okay. The end of Aug. 09 I realized that the change in my left nipple wasn't old age and I could see the profile of a mass above it. A core biopsy later confirmed ILC. Luckily, a PET looked clear everywhere else, but sized it at about 5cm. I just finished my last round of TAC Monday with great results (no longer palpable). Despite the size, I am foregoing rads. BECAUSE of ILC's sneakiness, I am going for bilat mxs with immediate reconstruction.

    I tell every woman I know to examine her breasts every month, especially nipple changes. 

  • caltex_catlady
    caltex_catlady Member Posts: 136
    edited February 2010

    Wonderland: Call it a guardian angel, God, luck, or whatever, it's good you took advantage of it. I'll take all the luck, etc., I can get!

    Merilee: That's something I've thought about. Even though I'm opting for bilateral, there's still tissue under and around the breast to keep an eye on. I'll look at every little itch as an opportunity rather than just an annoyance. Well, maybe not those itches I get in the middle of my back that I can't reach now, much less after the mx  Wink I need to check the boards for a good suggestion for limited mobility back scratchers.

    suepen: Good luck when you have your MRI. It was an "interesting" experience, but in my case it helped me feel more confident about my decision, so it was worth it.

    cathmg and everybody: It's so true that we become experts in a short time, isn't it? It's more than you ever wanted to know, and it's certainly more than most who aren't in our position want to know. It's so great having people here who understand us and who we don't have to protect from this crazy knowledge.

    Char2010: For me, I had multiple areas in the left that were ILC, LCIS, ALH, ADH, the whole alphabet, so I thought it would be wiser to choose mastectomy to try to get all the areas of concern. The decision to go with bilateral was part family history (I just felt the odds were against me in general), part that I'm just a "let's get on with it" kind of person, part that I think I'd rather have one bigger surgery now than probably two slightly less big ones later, and part my MRI results. Knowing there's something going on on the right side as well as my dx side, even if it's not invasive, confirms that I should just get it out. I think it's been both gut and intellect telling me what to do. Never discount your gut. That's something I'm still learning.

    susaloh: I'm so sorry to hear all you've been through. It just sucks.Hugs from California!

    AnacortesGirl: You bring up an interesting point. There have been a couple of times in the past when I went in to the doctor for breast pain, each side but at different times. They always said breast cancer doesn't cause pain (now I know that's not always true), but they did give me further exams that just didn't happen to show anything at that time. Now I wonder if it was the cancer or just something else.

    sueinfl: I love your profile picture. I'm going to get my hair cut shorter before the surgery, partly because it'll be easier to take care of while I'm without good use of either arm, but partly to prepare myself in case I end up with chemo and lose my hair. I've seen both my mother and my sister without hair, but I'm not sure I'm prepared to see it on myself. My mom said she got used to it over time, and since she lives in Texas, I think it was easier to go natural, at least at home, because of the heat.

    Thanks, everybody, for your comments.

  • spar2
    spar2 Member Posts: 6,827
    edited February 2010

    Catlady, it sounds like divine intervention to me.  I found mine by accident and it was scratching an itch.  Just had a mammogram that was clear so dr. sent me to have an ultra sound and then a core biopsy.  Sure enough it was ILC.  I had a rt mastectomy and no reconstruction.  Was diagnoised in 2004 and have been cancer free for 6 years now and off of arimiex for 8 months.  In 2007 I had reconstruction which took 6 months to finish.  So glad you found bco, it has been a life saver and have made so many good friends.  We exchange gifts and cards.  One day I plan a road trip to meet people.  From your name I am guessing that you love cats.  I do too, I have 4, 2 calico's, 1 gray persian, 1 gray and white stripe.  Tell me about yours if you get time.  Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

    Susaloh, you have had a very rough time of it.  Wishing you all the best. 

  • caltex_catlady
    caltex_catlady Member Posts: 136
    edited February 2010

    spar2,

    Yes, I do love cats. We have three (1 male orange and white tabby, 1 female orange tabby, 1 male brown tabby). They usually like to share their healing powers by lying on me, but I'm thinking I'd need to keep an umpire's chest protector on to protect me. Ah well, I probably won't be lying down much, so they won't be able to get at my chest. It will be comforting to have them sit on my lap, though.

    The evening after my biopsy last month, the brown tabby, who loves to sit on my lap but almost never when I'm sitting up in bed reading, decided that bedtime was a good time to come sit with me. The next day, he was back to his usual behavior. I think they know somehow what's needed and when. 

    Karen (caltex_catlady)

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited February 2010

    When I was diagnosed with a  recurrence I went to the pound and got a black kitty which I named Shaman. He makes me laugh everyday and makes me feel loved all the time. He greets me at the door when I come home and wants hugs. He comes to bed with me and what ever I am doing, he is right there doing it with me and being adorable and playful. He has lived up to his name.

  • Frapp
    Frapp Member Posts: 1,987
    edited February 2010

    In 2004 my husband passed away unexpectedly.  That same year I found a lump.  The doc sent me to have a sona gram that they confirmed to be a cyst.  Well that made perfect sense since I seem to be a cyst factory.  I've had them removed from my ovaries (at that time 2x), my arm and my throat.  Then a year later I go in for a  routine mamo and am had to go back 2x's and it was determined that I had "extra" breast tissue, but just to be on the save side to go back in 6 months.  Well I did that 2 more times, all the while trying to keep my kids and myself afloat without my partner.  My 16 year old son totaled my car, I moved out of the house to get closer to my work so that I would have less of a commute for the kids.  Then the fuel company, after 16yrs "forgot" to deliver my fuel and my house completely froze. I then moved to another state to be closer to my family.  Had a hysterectomy in 2008 because of another "cyst" and was put on hrt.  Well.....now here I am with stage IV ILC.  I'm thinking I"ve had this since 2004.  I am on arimidex and zometa once a month since January and my 7.5 cm tumor is now down to 3cm (upon physical exam).  But there are no mentions of any other treatments. My doc doesn't believe in onco scores.  She says they are not dependable and would rather treat the "whole person" with a good quality of life.  I guess good quality is OK but I'm only 50 and would like to see some retirement.  I'm new to this and am getting alot of information from you ladies.  Thanks for all your posts.

  • Gitane
    Gitane Member Posts: 1,885
    edited February 2010

    Frapp,  It sounds like that ILC was in there for quite a while before being diagnosed.  You've had a very rough time these past 5 years.  I wish there were a way to take all that away.  We ILC ladies are sharing some unique experiences here.  I'm glad you came here to share yours with us.  Hugs.

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