Sort of OT: Frozen shoulder, anyone?

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  • NativeMainer
    NativeMainer Member Posts: 10,462
    edited January 2010

    Just to add interest to this thread, my brother had a frozen shoulder after an injury.  His was primarlly due to a combination of built up scar tissue and decreased movement due to pain.  During his 3rd PT session the therapist moved his arm in such a way that "broke" or "tore" the scar tissue--apparently the sound was a rather shockingly loud SNAP--and that was the end of the pain for him. 

    My mother has had rotator cuff surgery twice, and she got instructions for the pulley & rope rig from her PT.  I used it for a little while after my mastectomy, and it really did help--I think I was on my way to a frozen shoulder from the pain of the abcesses/rad damage and year of pain before the mast.  

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  • SoCalLisa
    SoCalLisa Member Posts: 13,961
    edited January 2010

    My PT had me use that pulley rig too after my mastectomy

    and it really helped, 

    but my frozen shoulder was on my other side

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  • DaylilyFan
    DaylilyFan Member Posts: 80
    edited January 2010

    I had frozen shoulder just over a year ago (well before BC).  The pain was originally diagnosed as a strained bicep tendon, but several weeks of PT did not help, so my primary care doc ordered an MRI.  He suggested more PT, which I declined because I was having prior PT denied by my insurance.  My massage therapist fixed the frozen shoulder in 2 sessions.  He's very experienced, so I don't know if anyone else would have such good results.  Good luck to you!

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  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited January 2010

    NativeMainer, I like that story of your brother's experience. I´ve been slowly but steadily improving but still half less than half my range of motion. I´m going to tell my PT and see if he can do some of those moves on me  Smile  He has treated a lot of frozen shoulder patients and he says that each one is a bit different, it all depends on exactly where the adhesions are in the shoulder joint and how many there are.

    Lisa, I ended up not using a pulley. I figured out some stretches I can do just by hanging onto a horizontal bar that seem to address the vertical motion. For me, the slowest recovery is the lateral movement and also the twisting behind movement for unfastening the bra when it´s in place. 

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  • faithandfifty
    faithandfifty Member Posts: 10,007
    edited January 2010

    Thanks for the well wishes.... sisters of the frozen shoulder.

    Amazingly enough the surgery, does not seem to have made anything worse, regarding my shoulder. I can still lift my arm(s) straight out -- making a letter T, can lift carefully above head, slowly etc.

    I too have the most trouble with 'rotation' issues.

    OF course I won't be fastening a bra anytime in the near future..... but that would be an impossibility if I were inclined to make a motion of that sort.

    I see my surgeon on THurs a.m. in the hopes of removing my drain(s) and I will speak to him about the ROM issues and PT referral.

    We are hoping to depart gray OH for sunny FL home just ASAP in the next week to 10 days, as soon as surgeon removes staples & gives clearance.... may wait till we get down their for the PT that I am guessing will be necessary.

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  • yellowfarmhouse
    yellowfarmhouse Member Posts: 279
    edited January 2010

    I'm a PT and I see it alot.  I had a mild case after all my own breast surgeries.  I went to PT and it did help a lot.  It is true that some cases take a year to resolve. 

    Feel free to PM if you have questions...

    Wendy

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  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited January 2010

    Wendy, what a welcome presence on this thread you are!! I do have a question. Any idea what the movement is that cured Native Mainer´s brother? Someone else who posted early on here also mentioned a sudden cure like that.

    Faith, I´m so glad the surgery has not had any negative effect on your shoulder issue. If you can make a T with drains in, you are in way better shape than me!

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  • MelG
    MelG Member Posts: 23
    edited January 2010

    Two frozen shoulders for me - the first one on the non-mastectomy side shortly after I finished treatment which took about 18 months to resolve, then a couple of years later, the other side flared up.   That hasn't completely healed yet, but is getting there.   They can be extremely painful, especially in the upper arm I found.   A couple of times with the first one I jarred my arm a few times and almost dropped to the floor in agony!  

    I didn't do any exercises or anything, just took the path of least resistance and waited for it to pass.   It's annoying though, as swimming was impossible and I love swimming and snorkling.  It also made hanging the washing out very difficult, to say nothing of shaving under your arm!  

    I'm a bit nervous as my doc told me you can also get it in the hips?   It seems to be less common, but now that both my shoulders have had a go, I'm a tad nervous...

    Regards to all,

    Mel G

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  • faithandfifty
    faithandfifty Member Posts: 10,007
    edited March 2010

    Bumping for 'new' frozen friend(s).

    I'm currently in PT and making progress, slowly but surely.

    Argggggggggggggggh.

    xx00xx00xx00xx

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  • Lainey64
    Lainey64 Member Posts: 740
    edited May 2010

    Hi frozen shoulder sisters.  I've had pain in my left arm (surgery side) for a few months now.  I blamed it on cording and possible LE.  I've been seeing my LE therapist and she said it was pain from mild cording but after a few months and no relief from the pain I went to see an orthopaedic doctor.  He diagnosed me with frozen shoulder.  He gave me a cortizone shot that didn't help too much.  He wants to do a "manipulation" on me.  He said they'll put me out and move my arm around break up the scar tissue.  He says I'll be asleep during the whole thing and they'll put my arm in a sling and I'll start PT the next day.  I'm not so sure about this.  I asked about doing PT first and he didn't seem to think it was a good idea.  But from what I've read it seems like everyone here has gone the PT route first.  Should I get a second opinion before I have this guy "manipulate" my arm?  It just sounds really painful and rather extreme before even trying PT first.

    Thanks!

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  • smithlme
    smithlme Member Posts: 1,322
    edited May 2010

    I ended up with a frozen shoulder after my failed TRAM. I have no idea what they did to me while I was out. I spent almost a year going to PT once a week, then once every two weeks. It was a long process...

    Linda  

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  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited May 2010

    Hello there, frozen shoulder sisters! I´m checking in after quite some time off the boards. 

     Lainey, I am sorry to hear about your diagnosis and especially that the first doctor you went too did not pinpoint the problem. I had a similar experience and it was frustrating to find out that if I had identified it sooner it might not have gotten as bad as it did. I have not heard of the surgical procedure you mention. Maybe try getting another opinion?

     It has been 7 months since my diagnosis. For 2 months I did PT 5 times a week and since then I´ve been continuing 3x a week in a heated pool which has been marvelous. I have made a lot of progress and since March have not needed pain meds any more. I still have outward rotation problems (i have less than half the normal range), but if I needed to a could unfasten a bra (with some stiffness and a little twinge of pain). I have no problem at all hanging clothes on the line and I can even do pullover shirts.

    I discovered a good way of loosening the adhesions-- hold onto a smallish, reasonably heavy suitcase on the affected arm and let the shoulder hang for a few seconds; repeat 15 times then rest the arm; then do 15 more. It has the same effect as one of the exercises my physical therapist does.

    Speaking of exercises, this whole experience is has been an exercise in patience and persistence.

    Lisa 

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  • faithandfifty
    faithandfifty Member Posts: 10,007
    edited May 2010

    Ohhhhhhhhh Pitanga/Lisa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm so glad to hear from you & thrilled to hear of your progress.

    It seems that in the last month my PT has documented my over-the-head extension has gone from 105 degrees to 158 degrees!!!!! So I am suddenly making huge leaps of progress.

    Yeah my rotation is still VERY limited, but I understand that will improve next.

    It seems that I may now have issues of LE -- tho yet to be officially dx. My PT is LE trained and has been more focused on that in our recent sessions.

    Anyhow. She suggested I get a "pilates bolster" for home. I found one that cost only $20 and that included delivery. I LOVE it!!! Don't know why no one had ever suggested it?? You just lie on it..... on the floor. It opens up your shoulders just by lying there. It's a brilliant concept. If anyone is interested in the link, I'll look it up.

    Wishing a thaw to all sisters-of-the-frozenness...........

    xx00xx00xx00xx

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  • cocoapuff
    cocoapuff Member Posts: 37
    edited May 2010

    Hello Friends,

    Finally after many months of pain this seems to be starting to resolve for me.  I tried PT for about 8 weeks in November and December but I slipped on the stairs at home while dusting and caught my myself with the Frozen shoulder and was just in agony for  while.  I thought I had torn the rotator cuff and was going to need surgery. It was just the frozen shoulder.   I just could not do anything with that arm for a while.  The PT told me not to lift anything more than a pound or two. With time in Jan. and Feb. I healed some and then in March I joined a gym. For me this was a turning point.  My friend is training me with my shoulder in mind and gives me exercises that strengthen my weak spots and I can do so much now.  I even cleaned my carpets with the carpet shampooer and painted the kitchen ceiling myself!  I am sure this approach won't work for everyone but this is what is working for me.  I still have weak spots, I found 2 exercises today that were so hard to do because I am not strong enough yet and yesterday My left shoulder was stronger than my right for one exercise, so I still have work to do.  Thank you for all the suggestions you post.  They have been very helpful.

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  • mixin
    mixin Member Posts: 48
    edited June 2010

    Another frozen shoulder checking in.

    Mine started almost 3 years ago and improved by itself the first time. I injured it last summer and lost ROM over the winter. I had an MRI last week and there are several minor issues but nothing major; I had a steroid injection and I start PT tomorrow.

    I also started rads today and it's been extremely painful to keep my arms over my head. Reading the successful PT reports here gives me hope.

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  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited June 2010

    I have to read this....count me in!

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  • faithandfifty
    faithandfifty Member Posts: 10,007
    edited June 2010

    Mixin & Cookie. Welcome to frozen-shoulder-land.

    I am hear to report that I continue to make serious strides in the thawing department.

    Yesterday I had a personal session with a yoga-master, who at 63 is a nine year BC survivor. She is brilliant, amazing, insightful -- an all round treasure! She will be my personal coach, trainer, psycholgist, and yogi-guru this summer.

    Anyhow. We were both amazed at the amount of movement my 'bad' shoulder was allowing.... she must teach me how to breathe again (but that's a long story) and she is also going to work on helping me rebuild my strength -- both mentally, physically & spiritually.

    What at the beginning can be so painful and frustrating, can be reclaimed over time. I can nearly get to reaching overhead completely these days, it's all the internal & external rotation that I still must work toward.

    xx00xx00xx00xx

    Strength and courage.

    Strength and courage.

    Strength and courage.

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  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited July 2010

    Faith, I´m glad to hear you are making strides!

    It is funny, I am not much of a thread-starter and when I do take the plunge, I rarely get many posts. I almost didnt start this one because I was sure hardly anyone would be interested such an off-the-wall topic. I had no idea there would be so many ladies here dealing with frozen shoulders.

    As for me, after 8 months of PT, my slowly thawing side is nearly 100%. Even that nasty outside rotation problem is shaping up. I still have a bit of pain when I push it to its limits but for the most part things are good. I´m convinced this frozen shoulder stuff is all about patience and persistence... maybe just another way of saying strength and courage.

    But as fate would have it, I now have other joint issues. Arimidex side effects started kicking in big time a month ago. My fingers are so stiff and painful I can barely open a jar or turn on a faucet. There´s more joints involved but I won´t bore you with enumerating them all. Suffice it to say that I had a long chat with my doctor who told me many interesting things about estrogen´s importance in protecting nerve casings and joints. My oncologist wants to switch me to another AI but it is unclear if the Brazilian national health program will pay for it since the others are not in generic yet and way more expensive. For now I am hanging in there with Arimidex though, cause last PET scan showed stable, or maybe even NED, which sure puts sore fingers in perspective.

    Hugs to all

    Lisa 

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  • faithandfifty
    faithandfifty Member Posts: 10,007
    edited July 2010

    Lisa. I'm so glad to hear from you.

    So delighted to hear that your shoulder is now cooperating.

    Congrats on the stable boy & the possibility of NED!!!!!!

    Now to figure out where to have the least s.e. and which AI will get you there.

    You are my hero.

    I'm so happy to hear that you've gotten thawed out.... gives me hope for my internal rotation nonsense. It's amazing how we can compensate.

    Now that I have LE in that arm/side/trunk it does indeed put the frozen nonsense into perspective again. The human body is a marvel. Whew!

    xx00xx00xx00xx

    Patience & persistence to you, too!!

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  • luanne
    luanne Member Posts: 7
    edited September 2010

    I too suffer from a frozen shoulder and after my first sugery was if big pain.  Two weeks later I had to have node clearance and memtioned it to my doctor (my orginal doc was off sick) being  a quite a bit of experience with FS she said she would manipulate it for me while I was under.... worked a treat hardly any tiffness/ soreness at all the next day. 

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  • janet986w
    janet986w Member Posts: 1
    edited September 2010

    thanks you for the post

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  • brca1953
    brca1953 Member Posts: 76
    edited September 2010

    I have also suffered thru frozen shoulder and it's horrid at night.  I had to take tylenol pm to sleep.  I did PT and had surgery too.  I had a pulley that I put over the door to get my arm to move and had a contraption that I put my arm in to stretch too.  It does take about a year of hard work to recover from. 

     I'll be having a PBM in the future as BRCA2.  I don't expect them to take out any lymph nodes.  Do you think I'll have mobiltiy problems or do those only occur with lymph node removal?

    Thanks

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  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited September 2010

    brca,

    i think that anytime you stop moving your shoulder you are at increased risk for frozen shoulder. Axillary dissection is worse because since the surgery is in the underarm, you have to go easy on that area for longer.

    My frozen shoulder was on my left side, my mastectomy was on the right. They were not related but the FS set in about six months after the MX.  I needed to have a breast lift/reduction on the remaining boob but because of my shoulder they postponed it, since I would have to spend about 2 weeks without lifting my elbow above my shoulder. But I´m happy to report that finally in late July, almost a year after my FS dx, I had my breast lift and so far the shoulder is just fine!

    good luck

     Lisa 

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  • Alaina
    Alaina Member Posts: 461
    edited October 2010

    Another frozen shoulder here!

    I am getting a cortisone shot tomorrow.  I was seeing an LE Specialist/Occupational Therapist who suggested I go to an orthopedist for the shot.  She (the LES/OT) said that I had a rotator cuff impingement, scalpular impigment, tendinitis, and frozen shoulder.  She felt getting the shot would make my OT sessions more productive.  I am unable to do any of the exercises at home on my own.

    So the doc took xrays and said that everything looks fine, I just have a "stiff shoulder."  I guess that's medical speak for a frozen shoulder?  She is giving me the shot tomorrow and wants me to work with a different set of physical therapists, ones who specialize in shoulder issues and not LE.  She also prescribed Diclofenac (an anti-inflammatory) that I'm to take twice a day.

    I hope all this works.  I don't have enough leave to be away from work constantly going to appointments at this point. 

    Will report in after tomorrow.

    Alaina

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  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited October 2010

    Alaina,

    Dang, sounds like anything that could go wrong with a shoulder, you´ve got it! Russian roulette at its worst. Yes, all those appointments can really take over a person´s daily schedule.

    My FS was not diagnosed by X-ray. The orthopedist tested my range of motion during the appointment, which raised a big red flag since I could not lift my arm higher than 45 degrees from the relaxed position. Then he sent me for an MRI which showed the adhesions in the shoulder joint.

    The cortisone shot should help a lot in controlling the pain. I also took anti-inflammatories but they didnt do much good. My orthopedist gave my nortryptaline, one of the older types of antidepressants which also works for chronic pain for some reason. And I took a lot of tylenol with codeine (the weaker strength ones) and, before my PT sessions, muscle relaxers.

    good luck! Let us know if the shot does any good.

    Lisa 

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  • faithandfifty
    faithandfifty Member Posts: 10,007
    edited October 2010

    Just checking in, seeing there is activity in Frozen Shoulder land.

    What a lengthy journey, this.

    xx00xx00xx00xx

    Strength and courage.

    Strength and courage.

    Strength and courage.

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  • lvtwoqlt
    lvtwoqlt Member Posts: 6,162
    edited October 2010

    I think I have joined the frozen shoulder club. I had my surgery 3 yrs ago, have been doing the yoga at the local cancer center. Recently (about 2 months ago) I noticed that the range of motion in my left arm has decreased and if I move it certain ways or lay on my left side, my arm throbs. I can't touch my hands together in the back, I used to be able to hook my bra strap from behind, but now that is impossible. My yoga practice is not like it used to be when I started.

    While all this is going on, my 'family doctor' left the practice and the other doctors in that practice won't see me, they consider me a 'new patient' even though I have been a patient at that practice for 4 years. The doctor to replace my doctor won't be in the practice until January. I am scheduled to see a new primary care doctor tomorrow and will ask him about my shoulder issues. Wish me luck in getting my shoulder issues resolved.

    Sheila 

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  • Tamara67646
    Tamara67646 Member Posts: 293
    edited October 2010

    I have also had shoulder issue since my BC tx.  My lumpectomy & node dissection was on my left size - but I developed pain, limited motion and inablity to sleep on my right side!  I thought maybe I strained my right side because I was favoring my left side post surgery.  Through a MRI - determined that I have arthritis and a small rotator cuff tear on my right side.  I did several weeks of PT which helped some - but I still have very limited range of  motion though I no longer have pain sleeping on my side and in general have less pain.  The PT therapist I was seeing is also a lymphedema therapist and works with alot of BC patients - so she was also helping me with my limited range of motion on my left side and determined that where I am feeling the pain is also rotator cuff related.  But, after reading all these messages, I am wondering if it is a frozen shoulder? 

     One last potential cause - while on chemo - I was prescribed the anti-biotic "Cipro" on several occasions and a potential SE of Cipro is tendon tears - more commonly Achilles tendon but also seen in rotator cuffs.  I have been assuming that both of my shoulder issues might be tears caused by Cipro. 

    My breast surgeon wants to me to see another orthopedic as he thinks my range of motion should be better than it is so I am probably going to get another opinion. 

    I was surprised to find this thread and see that so many women have shoulder issues.

    Tamara 

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  • ibcmets
    ibcmets Member Posts: 4,286
    edited November 2010

    It was great to find this thread.  I've been dealing with frozen shoulder about 2 months after chemo & after starting Femara limiting my estrogen levels.  I had contant pain for about 3 months.  It's been 8 months now and I'm still doing physical therapy, although the pain is gone  I'm still working on range of motion. Hope I don't get this again after my mastectomy early next year.  I'll make sure to move my arms around as much as I can.  I did much better getting into physical therapy and seeing an orthopedic doctor.  He's trying to avoid the manipulation surgery.  If it comes back, I'm going to just have him do the manipulation.

    Terri

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  • kcrews
    kcrews Member Posts: 52
    edited November 2010

    Just looked at your profile and your occupation. Yup! Chances are it's frozen shoulder.

    In 2005, I had my right shoulder operated on 5 months before my daughter's bc diagnoisis. And then (low and behold) the month before MY diagnosis in 2007, my LEFT shoulder required surgery! I love clearing the snow from the driveway in the wintertime. Years of "chipping" ice and scraping did a number on both of my shoulders.

    My right shoulder healed quickly and I had full range of motion in 4 weeks; superior response to surgery and PT. My left shoulder was stubborn and miserable; the exact opposite from my earlier experience with frozen shoulder. I was literally years regaining full range of motion. It was a real blast dealing with my miserable shoulder and PT several times a week and being diagnosed with bc on the same side!! There were a few months that I rarely had a single day without either PT scheduled or an appointment with one doc or another.

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