Depression/what do you take/AI's side effect/depression

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karen1956
karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
edited June 2014 in Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts

I'm curious how many who are battling depression feel that it is because it is a side effect of AI's.  If so, do you think, if you stopped the AI, would the depression go away?

I've tried several anti-depressants, but not been able to come up with a regimine that seems to be good for me.  Tried effexor, cymbalta, wellbutrin, lamictal.  I haven't taken anything for over 6 months now.  The anti-depressants just seem to make me flat emotionally....of course right now, I don't feel the good feelings, so am I any better off.

I know that I need something, but I want something that will make me feel good...not just feel like I am going through the motions.  Some days, today is one, I feel like to heck with it all...I'm not taking anything anymore.....it seems like I take meds and more meds (either Rx or supplement) to combat the side effects of something else.  My onc is adament that I stay on the AI's till at least 5 years which is another 19 months and to do whatever I need to do to stay on them....but when I look at the side effects of AI's, I deal with most of them....and depression, anxiety, insomnia are included in the list of side effects.  I just want to feel good!!!!!! 

Also.....anybody else out there not able to cry....its been forever since I've had a good/real cry....and I so need/want one.

BC....the gift that keeps on giving!!!!

Hugs to all......Karen

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  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited December 2009

    We are all different - I'm on tamoxifen for LCIS (and sertraline for a pre-existing PTSD-like syndrome. PTSD is an anxiety disorder, not a depression, so what works for me may not work for you)

    I know insomnia is very, very common, especially as people age.

    For me, cognitive therapy (biofeedback) helped for insomnia. At least, it helped me recognize when I was tense. It was not cheap (about $100/session x about 15 sessions, most need about 8 sessions), but I found it very helpful for sleep for me.  I went to a cognitive psychologist.  The cognitive psychologist said I had trouble expressing emotions, but I have a very complicated psych history.  This small study suggests cognitive therapy can be helpful in addition to meds for some people with both depression and insomnia. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18457236

    This article suggests that depression may be different, but intertwined with insomnia.      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19909664

    Some people have a lot of trouble getting in touch with their emotions. I like to spend a lot of time in my head, not my emotions. I'd like to have better touch with my emotions - I know I used to.  It is good that you recognize you want/need to cry.  So do that when you feel it is right.  If you are having problems, some people find a therapist helps.   Everyone is different.  Adverse effects of drugs are individual - it is very rare that a side effect of a drug happens to 100% of the people who take it.

    You need to find the right path for YOU, and do what appeals to YOU.

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  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited December 2009

    Good to know, JO - I didn't know there was depressive anxiety.  I always thought it was kind of strange that antidepressants are given for PTSD.  Now it makes more sense.  Thanks!

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  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
    edited December 2009

    bumping

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  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited December 2009

    I'm depressed but I don't think it's the A.I. ... I was feeling that way even before I started the A.I. And I'm definitely not sleeping. I still cry a lot. I think for me it's the bc (second time) and I've not adjusted to all the physical changes and lost relationships. It's just seems to be part of the package but it's getting more debilitating.

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  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited December 2009

    Hi Karen,

       I'm sorry to read that the AI's are still giving you such troubles.  I know you have been trying to get your meds straightened out for some time.

       I was dx'ed with major depression long before I got cancer .. which is controlled with medication.  I tried Tamoxifen and Armidex, both made me physically sick and more depressed.  After much research and soul searching, I (somewhat uncomfortably) opted for quality of life.  I quit taking both meds.

       What I have noticed is that after almost 3 years with no estrogen (complete hysterectomy) and my age, now 54, I have a whole lot more muscular and bone aches.  I was recently dx'ed with arthritis in my cervical spine .. so that adds to my chronic pain.  I take up to two Vicodin a day and ibuprofen to manage the pain.

       Basically ... I need to control my depression first and foremost.  I was very fortunate because my cancer was Stage I, although 100% ER/PR +. 

       I like what Leaf wrote ... I spend far too much time in my head and much less time on my emotions.  I sometimes wonder if I let more of those emotions out if it wouldn't benefit my physical health.

       Anyways ... Karen .. just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

    lots of love,

    Bren

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  • Lowrider54
    Lowrider54 Member Posts: 2,721
    edited December 2009

    Hi JO-5

    I was taking Xanax for 13 years - I stopped in 2006 as I couldn't get anyone to continue to prescribe it for me.  I go tomorrow to see the psychologist/psychiotrist and am now hopeful that they may recommend Xanax again - it worked very well for me before - I don't know why so many are so reluctant to prescribe it.  I do not have a chemical imbalance - they tried me on all those drugs - most ended up making me sick. 

    I just want the crying to stop - the pain meds help but I would truly like to not wake up everyday on the verge of tears - and forget watching a sad movie...I blubber all over the place.

    Did the Xanax help with the crying? 

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    I agree with the depressive anxiety.  I have had depressive anxiety while taking Arimidex for 1.5 yrs.  Started Femara which was not as bad but caused serious hair loss.  It doesn't seem like the doctors that I see understand how bad the SEs are.

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  • pabbie
    pabbie Member Posts: 370
    edited December 2009

    Hi-I can relate with you. I've been dealing more w/ depression over the holidays and at stressful times. I'm trying to figure it out. My conclusion: After my 1st cancer is 1999 (colo-rectal), post-chemopause I was given Celexa and HRT (prempro). This combined w/ walking, meditation, saying a personal prayer for hope every morning and trying my darndest to get rid of the negative thinking helped me at least to return to work full-time. But all I would do is CRASH on the weekends.

    Feb. 2008 BC-No more HRT and Tamoxifen added because I couldn't handle Arimidex & Femara. (Very down and depressed)

    After reading a Mayo clinic book on depression, Tamoxifen can make you depressed. DUH! So its harder for me to move on. My goal is to just start moving everyday. (walking) Baby steps.

    My meds are sertraline, eskalith, and clonazepam. Good luck. You will find the right mix of drugs. My psych. and I are starting over this new year to find a new regime. I've got one year and a half down on the tamoxifen. Take good care of yourself.

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  • Harley44
    Harley44 Member Posts: 5,446
    edited December 2009

    I am currently on Tamoxifen, but will be starting Femara on Jan.1, and have always had problems with depression.  I took Zoloft about 10 years ago, when I was dx'd with hypothyroidism, because one of the sypmtoms of thyroid disorder can be depression, I believe. 

    Anyway, didn't like how Zoloft made me feel so tired, and since I was already so tired from the thyroid problem, I weaned myself off it.

    After my bc dx, I took Effexor for about 8 months, til my onc. told me to stop taking it, as Effexor is a weak inhibitor of Tamoxifen... 

    So now here I am, still dealing with depression, and getting ready to start taking AIs...  so I got a Rx for Effexor, but at the lower dose... 37.5     Will so how it goes.  I can't start taking it until I have waited for the Tamoxifen to get out of my system, so I think I'll wait about a month before giving it another go.  It was extremely difficult to wean myself off Effexor.  I became very emotional, and had a meltdown in Wal-Mart, and couldn't stop crying while driving home. 

    So for me, depression may be a separate issue, but I don't think these hormonals help the matter.

    Hugs

    Harley

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  • Lowrider54
    Lowrider54 Member Posts: 2,721
    edited December 2009

    Jo

    My appointment went will and they have again prescribed Xanax...but they added an antidepressant called efexsor - I think that is the spelling.  Apparently in addition to the new stresser - mets dx - the loss of my significant other to an auto accident 3 years ago is something that I haven't dealt with properly. 

    I did ask about the Arimidex and depression - it seems that happens in only a very small amount of women - the association is made because of the dx and that it is hormonal.  Yes, some anxiety will present but the depression comes more as a result of the stresser of the dx than the actual medicine itself. 

    Sleeping is apparently way important which I have read that many of us don't do that very well.  Whatever you need to do to sleep and let the body and mind refresh will aid in the reduction of some of the side effects like the tiredness, lack of concentration, the emotional outbursts (boy, I hope so!) and the lack of enjoying anything. 

    I will let you all know if this combination works to combat the depression that seems associated with the Arimidex.

    Gentle hugs to all!

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  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited December 2009

    Karen,

    I'm so sorry this has been such a struggle for you. I'm sure since day one you've been pushing and pushing to get past cancer and get on with your life. Then it all creeps up and crashes down.

    We all know the benefits of the meds, but the side effects can be so individualized. At some point, perhaps, we may have to choose quality of life. Perhaps your oncologist would allow you a two month wash-out/holiday from the AI, to see what--if anything--improves? I did that for my joint pain this fall, and it was amazing the difference. Ultimately I went back on the AI, and the pain is now returning. I think it's time for me to stop.

    It is not an easy decision. If you're the kind of person who will beat yourself up with what-if's in the event of a recurrence (post stopping AIs early), then perhaps you'll just have put up with it. But if you can let go, truly, and just live life with whatever happens, then maybe you should?

    I can still cry through my Zoloft, but I'm not weepy when people look at me funny any more. I have insomnia, and I take half an Ambien every night. My PCP is fine with that. Lack of sleep makes one crazy.

    I wish you well, Karen.

    Anne

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  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
    edited December 2009

    Anne....just lost a long post to you....my struggle is that I thought that I made peace if I stopped the AI's and I had a reoccurance.  At my last onc visit 2 weeks ago I brought up going off AI's....my onc is very against me stopping, and he is not in favor of a break...I have tried all 3 AI's and tamox....when I went on tamox for 2 months the joint pain went away...but the GI side effects were horrid, I lost 2# the first weekend I was on tamox...so went on Aromasin.....onc even gave me a couple week break when we went to Israel summer of 2007....so in all I was off AI's about   2 1/2 months including the tamox and no meds.... (I had begged onc to quit everything....he scheduled me for an hour visit to talk about it all and convince me why I should stay on a med....this was a year after finishing chemo) and I felt better.  I don't remember feeling depressed on the Arimidex, but the joint pain was much worse than it is on the Aromasin, and its not good now.  Onc has always talked about the benefit of the AI's for me in terms of increased survival rate, but his last visit he also put it in terms of mortality rate if I stopped....My onc feels that I need to stay on the AI's and to do whatever I have to to keep on the Aromasin....I take Ambian and melatonin everynight and he is just fine with that as he wants me sleeping...I also take ativan among other things.....I think I have 5 or 6 Rx and then several supplements....and anti-depressants will be added back to the list.

    Bren....its so nice to hear from you....you are never far from my thoughts...btw, I no longer vist the other site...there are days I say, yup, no more AI's...I'm done, its just not worth it,  I'm not sure anymore after last onc visit.  Onc is still keeping me on 3 month follow up visits and I think it is because I keep asking to go off AI's....he said when I left 2 weeks ago, lets see how you are doing in 3 months....my next visit is in March....4 years after bilat and close to 4 years from start of chemo....I don't do well on the narcotic pain meds...they make me sick to my stomach and bind me up so bad...and when I was on the Arimidex, iboprofen did nothing for the pain...I was taking 12/day and still in pain.....ibuprofen is not great now either except for my sinuses....I was taking gabepentin which helped with the joint pain, but I stopped because of the side effects....but I think I need to go back on it....the joint pain is worse, so is the Reyanuds and hot flashes without the gabapentin...It just seems like I take one med on top of another to combat the side effects....I'm 53 and before BC, I was healthy, felt good and had no real aches and pains....now it seems there is always something......and I know part of the problem is acceptance.....I think being stage 3 makes me more nervous about reoccurance.....but QOL....yes...I need to get it out of my head and into my heart and emotions....I need a good cry....darn....I need a cry....Bren...thanks....

    I see my psychiatrist the middle of January...husband wants me to move up the appt sooner, but that is just 2 weeks away, so not sure if there is anything I can do about appt...will let you all know what I end up doing......or I should say, what I end up taking.....btw....has any one tried the new anti-depresant Prestiq?

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  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited January 2010

    Karen, I hear your frustration loud and clear. I don't know much about Pristiq, but I think it's similar to Effexor. Have you tried Cymbalta? There's a vicious cycle with pain and depression...

    I'm probably going to stop Aromasin after I see my onc this month. I've been on it two years. He says we have to treat each cancer from the beginning, but I swear I had this second cancer at the same time of the first one, only we didn't know it. Looking back on an MRI 3 years before it was diagnosed (the 2nd one) I think it was there, held in check by Femara. One year off Femara, and grew enough for me to feel it...I don't think he'll argue much with me, given my Stage 1 status. But I can appreciate your Stage 3 disease, and the implications for treating as long as possible.

    Yet, what good are extra months of life if you cannot enjoy them...

    I hope you get that cry soon. In the meantime, try screaming into a pillow.

    Anne

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