ILC and Melatonin

Rabbit_fan
Rabbit_fan Member Posts: 166
edited June 2014 in ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
ILC and Melatonin
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  • Rabbit_fan
    Rabbit_fan Member Posts: 166
    edited December 2009

    I'm just posting this for anyone who might be interested. 

     I am very into diet and supplements as a way to improve my outcome, and I found a couple of sources today that I believe show that melatonin can be beneficial for ILC in particular.

    From this study:  http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/58/19/4383, the conclusion below seems to say that melatonin can increase E-cadherin expression, which we know is deficient in ILC, and can increase differentiation, which is also typically poor in ILC.

    "Taken together, our results suggest that melatonin shifts MCF-7human breast cancer cells to a lower invasive status by increasingthe ß1 integrin subunit and E-cadherin expressionand promoting the differentiation of tumor cells. Finally, ourstudy points out the existence of the anti-invasive actionsof melatonin as a part of the oncostatic action of melatonin. "

    This page from Life Extension http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-022g.shtml recommends 3-50 mg of melatonin at bedtime. 

    I'm definitely going to start taking it since it seems to act on factors of ILC in particular, and I'm just posting this for anyone who is interested.  If you're not into supplements, feel free to disregard.  I'm posting this on the ILC forum instead of the Alternative forum because it seems to me to have particular relevance to ILC, so I wanted ILC ladies to have a chance to see it.

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  • cd1234
    cd1234 Member Posts: 169
    edited December 2009

    I take it everyday!

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  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited December 2009

    Thanks for posting this. I take it every night but only 5 mg. I wonder if I should increase my dose.

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  • Rabbit_fan
    Rabbit_fan Member Posts: 166
    edited December 2009

    I thought the 3-50 mg range seemed a bit weird too.  This is from the Life Extension link I posted above:

    "Initially, if melatonin is taken in large doses vivid dreams and morning drowsiness may occur. To avoid these minor side effects melatonin may be taken in low doses nightly and the dose slowly increased over a period of several weeks. "

    So maybe the range is supposed to be 3 mg starting and 50 mg maximum range? 

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  • hlya
    hlya Member Posts: 484
    edited December 2009

    Thanks for sharing.

    Will our doctors know about it?  Would it be ridiculous to ask my ONC about this supplement?  I wonder whether they know it or not....

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  • Rabbit_fan
    Rabbit_fan Member Posts: 166
    edited December 2009

    I don't think doctors will know or care about this, since it's from lab research and not a patient trial.  But they're not the ones who have worry about their cancer coming back, either. 

    I honestly don't think they pay attention to these types of things until they are studied more and backed up by ASCO or some organization like that.  But I can also understand that they feel like they can't recommend something that is only based on cell-line research.  I think on things like this we have to do the best we can to find reasonable sources of information and then we have to go it alone, for the most part.  If you have access to a naturopath or integrative oncologist I think they would be more likely to hear you out and give an opinion.  Otherwise I think any oncologist will say it's not proven.

    But as far as this, I don't think there's much of a downside. 

    I also read a few months ago that a researcher found that Tamoxifen is less effective in cells that lack E-cadherin.  So if melatonin can increase E-cadherin, it makes sense to me that it could potentially make Tamoxifen more effective.  I doubt that anyone is ever going to do a study on that, so you just have to go with your own instincts.  The info about E-cadherin and Tamoxifen really worried me for quite a while, and I finally just moved on and figured I'll take the Tamoxifen and if it works, fine.  But this gives me a little more confidence in it.  I'll see if I can find a link to that study.

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  • Rabbit_fan
    Rabbit_fan Member Posts: 166
    edited December 2009

    http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/medicine_health/basis_identified_tamoxifen_failure_123703.html

    From that link:

    "Tamoxifen may worsen breast cancer in a small subset of patients. Research published in BioMed Central's open access journal Breast Cancer Research suggests that in patients who show reduced or absent expression of the protein E-cadherin, commonly used anti-oestrogen drugs such as tamoxifen may promote more harmful cancer cell behaviour."

    and this:

    "This could have major clinical implications for those patients with tumours where there is inherently poor intercellular adhesion. In such patients, oestrogen deprivation with aromatase inhibitors (AIs) may be a more appropriate treatment".

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  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited December 2009

    The naturopath that I am seeing suggested Melatonin as well. She started me slowly but I am now taking 4 5 mg capsules every night. I have run out and was taking my time in getting more but I will definitely get more this week and continue with it.

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  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited December 2009

    I read a study that indicated melatonin assists tamoxifen (amplifies it's protection), so I began taking it.  I also had horrible nights of sleeping with the hot flashes .....melatonin has saved my life in terms of sleep.  Because I am on tamoxifen, I figured win-win..

    I take about 20 mg. most nights.  Swanson Vitamins sells 10mg dose capsules....love it!

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  • rreynolds1
    rreynolds1 Member Posts: 450
    edited December 2009

    This is the first I have heard about ILC and melatonin.  I am on Arimidex and it might help with my sleeping through the night.  There is SO MUCH to learn that the docs don't tell us.

    Thanks.

     Roseann

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  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited December 2009

    I've had an unopened bottle of melatonin (3mg) in my medicine cabinet for a few months.  I've been hesitant to take it because of what I've heard about the wild, intense dreams experienced by some first-time users.  I don't want to make my dreams any wilder!  So, my question is -- have any of you experienced that S/E?  And are there any do's and don'ts re interference with other medications, alcohol etc.? 

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  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited December 2009

    I do dream but Iike it. Last night I dreamed it was raining ice cubes.

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  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited December 2009

    Prior to melatonin, I didn't dream often enough...assumed not into the REM sleep because I kept waking up.  Now, I dream.  Nothing vivid or wild or crazy, just dreams ....

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    I take melatonin every night (3mg)--no bad dreams here, actually no dreams at all that I can remember. If it helps prevent ILC that's great, as I am at higher risk of ILC due to LCIS and family history of ILC. I've been taking it a few years now.

    Anne

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  • dogsaver
    dogsaver Member Posts: 201
    edited December 2009

    my naturopathic oncologist recommends 20mg a night. they dont sell that dosage at regular health food stores, the brand i use is called allergy research group. it helps me sleep great too

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  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited December 2009

    I had the wild dreams, restless night experience the first time I tried Melatonin, which was several months ago, in the midst of my tx.  So I put the bottle in the back of my cupboard and didn't take it again until recently.  This time, I've had absolutely no problem, but I'd also recently started using Progesterone, which, in itself, was causing me to sleep much sounder.  So my first experience could have been due to the stress of being in tx; or perhaps having more Progesterone in my system helps the Melatonin to be better utilized??? 

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  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
    edited December 2009

    I take 3mg Melatonin along with Ambian 12.5 mg CR at night to sleep..doc said I could take up to 9mg with the ambian...she said to start low and to gradually increase till I found the right does.....may try increasing the melatonin.....my tabs are 3mg....may get some 2's or 1's...no wild dreams....only side effect is sometimes I am groggy in the morning, but I think that is if I took the meds too late....but without the melatonin and ambian, I wake up way too many times......sleep is very disruptive.....This is the first I've heard about a benefit of melatonin for us  ILC gals.

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  • Kleenex
    Kleenex Member Posts: 764
    edited December 2009

    I find that the 3 mg of melatonin (and mine has some sort of "natural anti-anxiety" component - it was at Costco) really helps me sleep, but if I don't take it early enough it can make me groggy the next morning. I often have to get up at 5:30 to get a high school daughter off to school, so I won't take it if it's after about 9:30. It seems to moderate the hot flashes a bit - although if it is humid and I have eaten a big dinner too late, nothing will save me from the flashfest. A friend mentioned to me that it gives her wild and crazy dreams if she takes it for more than a few days -I don't take it every night, so I don't know about that. I like the idea that it may help with the ILC/Tamoxifen thing, and it also seems to be deemed otherwise harmless.

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  • trigeek
    trigeek Member Posts: 916
    edited December 2009

    Hey gals maybe I am not recalling correctly but I thought that melatonin was kind of hard on the liver ? Thoughts ? I was taking 15 mg/night stopped.. would love to get back on it again.

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  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited December 2009

    Melatonin is the body's own natural hormone.  It is a powerful antioxidant.  I've never heard about liver toxicity.  I did a ton of reading for work on melatonin and did not come across anything negative (as far as I could read).

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    This article in WebMD says "in human studies, melatonin has basically no toxicity."

     http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20030714/hormone-melatonin-slows-breast-cancer

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  • thepinkbirdie
    thepinkbirdie Member Posts: 212
    edited December 2009

    This topic caught my attention when I saw "Melatonin" in the list of active topics...

    I was at my oncologists office today and asked him if he could recommend an OTC sleep aid.  He suggested melatonin, which really surprised me.

    I'm glad to read everyone's experience with it, especially with respect to hot flashes at night.

    My only concern is about it being a powerful antioxidant.  Is is safe to take while receiving chemo treatments?  I remember hearing/reading that too many antioxidants during chemo can actually block the effects of chemo. 

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  • gobuster
    gobuster Member Posts: 21
    edited December 2009

    I'm so glad I have these forums.  I've been able to get so many answers and receive so much info and support!

    Thank you.  I didn't know about melatonin and ILC.  

    Mary 

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  • Aussiemumof2
    Aussiemumof2 Member Posts: 21
    edited December 2009

    My GP advised to take 10mg a night of Melatonin after my diagnosis. Aside from the benefits already talked about it has been useful in helping me get to sleep. However I do wake after 4-6  (without grogginess) which I put down to the effects of my operation & chemo. It is great to hear similar stories from the other side of the world.

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  • Katiejane
    Katiejane Member Posts: 789
    edited December 2009

      Hi ladies---I see alot mentioned here regarding Melatonin having a possible added benefit if you are taking Tamoxifen.  But does anyone know if there are any positive or negative effects if you are on Arimidex???  I sure don't want to take anything that might interfere with the actions of my Arimidex!

    Thanks!  Katiejane

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  • balsie
    balsie Member Posts: 391
    edited January 2010

    katiejane~  I am wondering about the same thing.  I am on Arimidex too.  Anyone out there take melatonin while on arimidex? 

    Thanks

    Balsie~

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  • kim2005
    kim2005 Member Posts: 49
    edited January 2010

    I've been taking melatonin for over a year at the suggestion of Dr. Lam who wrote a fantastic book called Beating Cancer with Natural Medicine.  I have telephone calls with him about once a month.  He suggested I take 30mg of liquid melatonin and I sleep like a baby!  The liquid is so easy to take.  I order it through Supplement Clinic and it's called Melamax:

    http://www.supplementclinic.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=melamax

    www.drlam.com

    I was glad to see this article and research..thanks for sharing!

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  • susaloh
    susaloh Member Posts: 103
    edited January 2010

    Do you know of any natural ways of enhancing Melantonin production in our bodies? Is there a specific lack in winter?

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  • Debra16
    Debra16 Member Posts: 8
    edited January 2010

    Hello to all you lovely and supportive ladies,

    I am brand new to this forum - very happy to have found you! I have been taking Melatonin drops for some time before I was diagnosed and will certainly be continuing. We can only get it through a doctor's prescription here in Australia, but worth the effort.   Keen to hear from anyone who can help me decide on post surgical treatment for PLC (13mm), grade 2, node negative. Had lumpectomy and tissue removed from other breast that looked suspicious, but tested clear.  E and P receptor positive but HER negative, I think? I work in complementary medicine, so I have commenced taking supplements to assist in reducing estrogen already, as well as selenium, vitamin K, liver support herbs, curcumin, antioxidants etc.  Help!!

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  • Kleenex
    Kleenex Member Posts: 764
    edited January 2010

    Debra16

    Do you have ILC or Pleomorphic ILC? There are ladies around who have both here. I had ILC. If you've just have lumpectomy, generally you'll end up with radiation. Lumpectomy + radiation = mastectomy in terms of spread and survival rate. I had radiation after my lumpectomy and it wasn't that bad.

    Also, since you're ER+ and PR+, you will likely be offered an anti-hormonal treatment. I am pre-menopausal, so I was prescribed Tamoxifen. I just finished my first year of Tamoxifen.

    What treatment decisions are you evaluating?

    Coleen

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