Tumor Markers

carcharm
carcharm Member Posts: 486
edited June 2014 in Stage I Breast Cancer

My onc told me she will not do tumor markers because they are not accurate in breast cancer and only cause high anxiety. Also, because I am stage I, OK-really stage II since one of my nodes had atypical cells, she says I won't need them because TCH will be curative. I wish she read this message board. Is it the norm for stage I not to have tumor markers done? Are they helpful? What are the marker tests called? Is it possible she doesn't do them because my cheap axx insurance won't cover them?

Comments

  • pj12
    pj12 Member Posts: 25,402
    edited November 2009

    I am stage one and my med onc does a CA15-3 test every 3 months.  My insurance approved fee is less than $50.00 for the test.  She says the number itself is not as important as the trend.  But lots of docs do not order them.  I like it.

    pam 

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited November 2009

    ASCO guidelines are NOT to do tumor markers, except in stage IV disease (American Society of Clinical Oncologists)

    http://www.cancer.net/portal/site/patient/menuitem.169f5d85214941ccfd748f68ee37a01d/?vgnextoid=be3784da6c3a5110VgnVCM100000ed730ad1RCRD 
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    What to Know: ASCO's Guideline on Tumor Markers for Breast Cancer

    Recommendations

    Different tumor markers are used at different points in the diagnosis and treatment process. The ASCO recommendations for tumor markers for breast cancer include the following:

    For patients with newly diagnosed ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS):

    DCIS means that cancer has not spread outside of the ducts in the breast. It is also called noninvasive breast cancer. No tumor marker tests for DCIS are recommended at this time.
    For patients with newly diagnosed invasive breast cancer:

    ER and PR tests, to help predict response to hormone therapy after surgery

    HER2 test, to help predict response to trastuzumab and other anti-HER2 treatments and some types of chemotherapy
    Once these tests are done, the cancer is classified as ER-positive (if the tumor has estrogen receptors) or ER-negative (if the tumor does NOT have estrogen receptors); PR-positive (if the tumor has progesterone receptors) or PR-negative (if the tumor does NOT have progesterone receptors); and HER2-positive (if the tumor does have HER2) or HER2-negative (if the tumor does NOT have HER2). Learn more ASCO's recommendations for HER2 testing.

    For patients with node-negative breast cancer:

    uPA and PAI-1 tests, if available, to estimate the prognosis. Patients with tumors that do not have uPA and PAI-1 have a very good prognosis and may not need chemotherapy.
    For patients with node-negative breast cancer that is ER-positive and/or PR-positive:

    Oncotype DX test, to identify patients who may be successfully treated with tamoxifen alone and may not need chemotherapy
    For patients with metastatic breast cancer:

    ER and PR tests, to help predict response to hormone therapy

    HER2 test, to help predict response to trastuzumab and other anti-HER2 treatments

    CA 15-3 and CA 27.29, for monitoring treatment; these should be used along with the patient's health history, a physical examination, and diagnostic imaging tests, such as an x-ray, computed tomography (CT) scan, and/or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI).

    CEA, for monitoring treatment; this test should be used along with the patient's health history, a physical examination, and diagnostic imaging tests.
    For patients with recurrent breast cancer:

    HER2 test, to help predict response to trastuzumab and other anti-HER2 treatments and guide the use of specific chemotherapy

    Kira 

  • ookii
    ookii Member Posts: 6
    edited November 2009

    I think it's a good idea to track a number of tumor markers regularly. They give you a lot of valuable information. But you need to understand them. Cost is also a factor.

    There's a good article about tumor markers here (scroll down):

    http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-027.shtml

    At the moment I'm are mainly tracking CEA, CA 15-3, Ferritin, ALP, BCA 225, TPA, NTx, alpha-1 globulin, and Hyaluronic Acid. Each marker tells a different story. Combinations of markers are far superior to just one or two.

    Recently I changed therapy and I do some markers weekly before the next therapy, and I can get a good idea about the response I'm getting. It's amazing how much of a response you can get in some markers in such a short time and they do appear accurate. If one waits too long to check, we can get much bigger jumps in the marker, which I feel are more scary. If something isn't working, it takes longer to find out. Which is what happened to me before. When changing anything with our therapy, marker checks beforehand are a good idea, so that we can isolate the effect it has. I think it makes it less of a guessing game.

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited December 2009

    I had no idea this was used for early stage! Are you guys in the us?

  • deborye
    deborye Member Posts: 7,002
    edited December 2009

    Is the onco score test results on the path report if one was ordered?  I don't seem to see anywhere that the test was performed my onc does not do the CA blood test on early stage BC.  I will have to ask her in Feb at my appt.

  • weety
    weety Member Posts: 1,163
    edited December 2009

    Well, my onc does do tumor markers for early stage and guess what?  Mine are up during chemo!  I started at 27 and 29 before surgery & chemo and now they are up to 47.5!  I am freaking out, needless to say.  I hope they are NOT reliable in my case. 

  • cookiegal
    cookiegal Member Posts: 3,296
    edited December 2009

    I read elsewhere on the board that they spike during chemo, and also they can spike from non-tumor causes.

  • Sydney6
    Sydney6 Member Posts: 172
    edited December 2009

    My onc does the CA.29 test every three months.  There is no harm in asking if you want them to do it.  That's what I did when I wanted the test to see how well I metabolize the Tamoxifen.  I didn't think my insurance company would cover it based on what the plan said, but was willing to pay out of pocket because I wanted to know.  My onc explained why she doesn't usually do it, but didn't seem to have a problem ordering it when I asked her to.  Insurance did wind up paying.  Good luck.

    Sue 

  • LRM216
    LRM216 Member Posts: 2,115
    edited December 2009

    My onc says that they are not always accurate, but she uses them for the "trend" they establish.  I had one at the first visit and she said it was "good".  I have them every three months.  I have finished my last rads tonight, had my last chemo on 9/10/09 and am Stage 1, Grade 3 triple neg.  She did blood work last week and they called today saying all was fine and my tumor marker is 11.  I was happy, but if I have no cancer in me (which I hope is the case), why wouldn't my tumor marker come back "0"?????

  • sbmolee
    sbmolee Member Posts: 1,085
    edited December 2009

    Carcharm - if your onc will not do the tumor marker testing ask your primary doctor.  A gal I work with had cancer years ago and no longer sees an onc.  She asks her primary and gets tested annually.  My onc does the tumor marker - CA27-29 along with a CBC.  There is a book called Life after Breast Cancer that discusses various testing alternatives. 

    Weet911 - the book I mentioned above states there are MANY reasons for elevated and fluctuating values, many of the reasons have nothing to do with cancer.  Guess what I took from the book is the results can give false negatives and false positives...and in many cases the false positives - mean more tests necessary to determine reason for elevated results. 

  • Sydney6
    Sydney6 Member Posts: 172
    edited December 2009

    LRM216 - The first time my onc did the tumor marker test I thought the same thing.  Why would it show anything if you no longer have a tumor?  I'm going to ask her later this month about that.

    Sue

  • LRM216
    LRM216 Member Posts: 2,115
    edited December 2009

    Thanks, Sue.  I see mine Dec. 23rd, so I'll ask too (if my chemo brain remembers!).

    Linda

  • elimar86861
    elimar86861 Member Posts: 7,416
    edited December 2009
    kira, Thanks for posting the guidelines.  I was curious about the follow-up for Early Stage women. 
  • weety
    weety Member Posts: 1,163
    edited December 2009

    LRM, Even healthy women who have never had breast cancer have a postive response to the CA 27.29 test. That is why numbers up to 38 are considered normal.   Your number of 11 is completely normal!  It can still mean there is no cancer in your body.  Doctors use these tests more to look at the trend of results, rather than for an absolute number.  A consistent increase in the numbers is likely to mean something is going on, but even this doesn't happen in all women with recurrences.  This is part of the reason why the use of tumor markers is controversial.  Many doctors don't use them at all because they can be somewhat unreliable. 

  • LRM216
    LRM216 Member Posts: 2,115
    edited December 2009

    Weety -

    Thanks so much for putting my mine to ease!  I am not a dumb woman, but after I got off the phone with the PA who told me all my blood work came back good and my tumor marker was 11, I felt good.  Got off the phone and began wondering, geez, maybe it should have been "0".  Tried googling, but could not find anything telling me anything concrete.  You just did!  Thanks, again - and to you - all good wishes.

    Linda

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