Alternatives to Mammography

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Comments

  • seaotter
    seaotter Member Posts: 1,083
    edited November 2009

    Amen Spring, it is what it is. I try to take it one day at a time!!!

    Vivre, how many therms do you get in a year? Have you have a whole body scan?

    Patty

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited November 2009

    Yes, so true, it is what it is! All we can do is educate ourselves, make good decisions, take reasonable action - and hope for the best! Feeling good and taking care of ourselves along the way can only do us good!

  • Mantra
    Mantra Member Posts: 968
    edited November 2009

    Someone here had mentioned Breast Screening Gamma Imaging (BSGI). We do not have this available in Canada however, I did write the company to ask some questions. Apparently, Canada requires a different certification than Europe and US. They expect to have the certification approval in place by early 2010.

    They sent me a very long email because I am going to the US to have this test done and wanted some information before moving forward. I also asked about the risks associated with the injection and would love input from others who are much more knowledgeable about this than I am. Here are some cut and pastes from the email;

    REPLY "Both BSGI and mammograms are helpful in the diagnostic process- as can be ultrasound and MRI; but not one imaging test can provide all the answers, and that's why it is so important to have regular mammograms to view the history of the normal changes of breast tissue over time to what may be abnormal or sudden, and to complement that test with the functional capabilities of a molecular breast imaging tool."

    IMY QUESTION "Is the amount of radiation comparable to the radiation injected during an MRI?"

    REPLY: "Gadolinium is not a radioactive material, yet is a contrast dye used to increase the differences between different tissues or between normal and abnormal tissue by altering relaxation times.
    The radiopharmaceutical used in the BSGI procedure has been used safely for more than 15 years in cardiac stress tests. The majority of the drug leaves your body within hours after administration, and is completely eliminated within 30 hours. According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the risks from the radiation dose associated with both mammography and BSGI/MBI procedures are considered to be "minimal." For additional information about the pharmaceutical risks of Technetium TC 99m Sestamibi please visit www.cardiolite.com/index_flash.html."

    Any feedback is welcomed!!
    Diagnosis: 7/10/2009, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER-/PR-

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited November 2009

    Springtime, Elaine:

    Again, we are talking percentages. Of course, ANY breast tumor can recur, as I was discussing it elsewhere with Deni. What I meant to say, is that scientists now believe that Triple Negatives have a very, very, very low recurrence rate after 5 years. Please see below the notes that I took for distribution to my work breast cancer support group last year. Because we are a HUGE organization, the moderator for our group sends such information around in bulk emails. I had volunteered to attend this particular CancerCare podcast, and to take notes. Below are the first few lines of my notes (which were several pages long):

    ME, in a long email to my work support group members:

    Wednesday, June 4, 2008

    Update on Triple Negative Breast Cancer

    1100 people participated in this Telephone Education Workshop

    Panelists:

    Dr. Carolyn Messner, DSW, Director of Education & Training, CancerCare, New York, NY

    Dr. Judy Garber, Judy E. Garber, MD, MPH

    Dr. Hope Rugo, MD, UCSF

    Dr. John S. Link, MD, Director, Long Beach Memorial Breast Cancer

    Ms. Patricia Spicer, MSW, Breast Cancer Program Coordinator

    --------------------------------

    In case you cannot read this entire email, here are the points that captured my attention:

    1.  During the Question and Answer session, one person called and said that, according to her oncologist, if a patient with Triple Negative breast cancer manages to go 5 years without a recurrence, chances are cancer will probably NOT return. She wanted to know if the panel agreed. The panel did concur with her oncologist, and confirmed this information.

    While there is no magic number, it does appear from current studies, that risks in Triple Negative patients are, indeed, FRONTLOADED. In contrast, it appears that the recurrence risk never disappears for estrogen-positive patients, who *might* face recurrence 15 or 20 years after their initial diagnostic. 

    Please contact CancerCare directly, with the above-mentioned information, if you would like to hear the podcast for yourselves: I believe they keep podcasts available after airing them. Actually, here is the email address where I contacted them for the teleconference: Cancer Care Education Department <teled@cancercare.org>

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    Interesting article from today's NY Times. It suggests that high-risk woman who use mammography are more likely to get cancer...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/health/research/01cancer.html?_r=1&ref=health

    Finally, some recognition for what has been "whispered" for some time!

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited December 2009

    Indeed, I can see they now concede: "the radiation from yearly mammograms may make the risk even higher, researchers reported at a radiology conference on Monday."

    There is definitely a revolution afoot: people are obtaining their information from different sources (this forum is living proof), there are more and more of us determined to think for ourselves, instead of receiving orders, with no questions asked. This is not going to stop.

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    My guess is that they have to introduce the fact that mammos do more harm than good SLOWLY. First the guideline shifts, then little stories like the one I posted above, with more to come I am sure. If it came out in one announcement that mammos can do more harm than good, think of all of the lawsuits there would be from women who were effected.

    I agree, Yazmin, this is only the beginning!

  • seaotter
    seaotter Member Posts: 1,083
    edited December 2009

    I get my first therm next week!!!! I wonder if I should have an ultra sound as well. What do you think?

    Patty

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    I just called to schedule a follow up ultrasound. The radiology group that I typically go to would not schedule the appointment! I told the scheduler that I have a prescription from my doctor and she replied that their radiologist does not allow ultrasound without doing mammo! Can you believe it?!

  • seaotter
    seaotter Member Posts: 1,083
    edited December 2009

    WTF?????? What now? Can you find another place? Good grief!!

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    I actually just made an appointment with the Dr. that PS saw recently. They are willing to do it. Unfortunately though, they are out of network!

  • seaotter
    seaotter Member Posts: 1,083
    edited December 2009

    ugh, how much does it cost?

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    Has anyone read the book Better Breast Health For Life?

    Here is  list of links for information on Thermography: www.thermogramcenter.com/Links.htm

    The site has tons of information.

    For anyone in Colorado this is a great price. I paid $300 for mine.

    Too bad I can't get the video to work.

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    They said anywhere between $200-$350. What I don't know yet is how much is reimbursed! I'm hoping at least the typical 70% we usually get. Double UGH!!

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    Someone just sent this article from Reuters regarding screening using ultrasound...

    Ultrasound effective at spotting breast cancers

    (c) 2009 Reuters Limited

    * Less-invasive test 100 percent effective in young women

    * Technique addresses harms seen from self breast exams

    By Julie Steenhuysen

    CHICAGO, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Breast ultrasounds found 100 percent of suspicious cancers in women under 40 who found lumps or other suspicious areas of the breast, offering a cheaper, less-invasive alternative to surgery or biopsies, U.S. researchers said on Wednesday.

    They said targeted ultrasound -- which examines just the area of the breast where a lump is identified -- should become the standard of care for women under 40.

    The findings may address some of the concerns raised by a federal advisory panel about breast exams done by women or doctors to investigate lumps or hot spots in the breast, which most often turn out to be harmless.

    In a controversial set of recommendations issued last month, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recommended that women not be taught to perform self breast exams because they often result in worry and expense for tests, biopsies and unnecessary surgery.

    "That concerns us because while breast cancer in young women is rare, it absolutely does occur. Often, those cancers are only diagnosed because the woman noticed the lump in her breast or her doctor noticed a lump in her breast," said Dr. Constance Lehman of the University of Washington and director of imaging at the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, who presented her findings at the Radiological Society of America meeting in Chicago.

    "There are harms that follow after a woman does a self breast exam -- unnecessary surgeries, unnecessary biopsies. To that point, what we're saying is if you use imaging appropriately you can avoid those harms," Lehman said in a telephone interview.

    Lehman did two studies testing the effectiveness of ultrasound to distinguish between potentially cancerous lumps and harmless masses in younger women.

    In one, they studied more than 1,100 ultrasound exams of women under age 30. In the second, they studied 1,500 exams in women aged 30 to 39.

    In both studies, ultrasound correctly identified the cancers and all of the benign breast changes. The only cancer not found was in a region of the breast that was not identified as an area of concern. Instead, it was identified by a full breast mammogram.

    "Less than 3 percent of the patients that presented in this way had cancer. But it's important for us to find those patients that did have cancer," Lehman said.

    "We had 26 women whose cancers were diagnosed because they brought the lump to the attention of their doctor, or their doctor brought the lump to the attention of the breast imaging specialist," she said.

    Lehman said in the United States there is no standard way of treating women under age 40 who find a lump in their breast.

    "Some of them go to the operating room to have the lump removed. Others have it followed. Others have a needle biopsy and we wanted to bring some clarity to this treatment," she said.

    She said ultrasound is a quick and easy test that uses sound waves to create an image of the breast. It typically costs $100 to $200 per exam.

    Lehman said using ultrasound could help balance some of the harms of overtreatment with the benefits of self breast exams in women under age 40, who are too young for routine mammogram screening even under the American Cancer Society guidelines.

    The task force also recommended against routine mammogram screening for women in their 40s for many of the same reasons, a change the American Cancer Society and many other breast cancer experts reject.

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited December 2009

    Hmm, my thermography was only $175... at the time I thought that was expensive but well worth it.

    I told the scheduler that I have a prescription from my doctor and she replied that their radiologist does not allow ultrasound without doing mammo! Can you believe it?! 

    Unfortunately I do believe it... I had to try a couple of different doctors before I found one who would do ultrasound without having had mammo.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    When I lived abroad we women would form groups and pay a small monthly sum, say $20.00, into a fund. Each month the kitty would be rotated amongst the members. Granted, we used the money for personal things we couldn't normally afford, but something like that could benefit our BC sisters in need of extra funds for testing, supplements, etc.

    The society was geared to support that sort of thing but it might work if you have trustworthy Bc sisters in your area.

     Oops. I meant $200.

  • seaotter
    seaotter Member Posts: 1,083
    edited December 2009

    Great article deni but what about the old women??? I'm 55. I wonder if it is helpful at all over 40.

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    Yeah, good question! It mentions the younger woman because the risk of having mammogram for a younger woman is higher. I am hoping that means that older women (myself included) will find ultrasounds as effective as younger women without the radiation. It would have been nice if they mentioned us women over 40!

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited December 2009

    Thermography would benefit ALL women, but is especially important for young women because

    A-they tend to have denser breasts which make it harder to detect tumors with mammos

    B they have more breast changes monthly with their cycle and a mammo might pick up something insignificant while a therm would not

    C there is NO acculation of radiation, especially for high risk young women, who may be told to get mammos more often. And if there is cancer and it is missed with a mammo, all that compression could cause the cancer to burst out of a duct and cause invasive cancer. This happens a lot when cancers are the size of a milk duct and easily missed. By the time a woman goes for another next year, the cancer has spread!

    BTW, my therm only cost $150, done my doctor who is a chiro, and has been doing them for many years. Since he is a doctor, my doctor visit is covered, but since the lobbying by the mammography industry is so vocal, insurance companies are not forced to cover therms. If people really cared about women's health, therms would be covered universally. Imagine if doctors were trained to do them in their offices and read them. All women could have safe and painless baselines done at young ages. If they look suspicious, they can be followed up in a couple of months to see if there are any changes. If they still look suspicious, then US could be done. But NOOOOOOOO that would be putting women's needs and a cheap alternative at the forefront. What will all those tech centers and hospitals do with all those expensive radiation machines if hey could be replaced by a $5000 camera and computer setup(this is what my doc said he paid). If thermography was everywhere, the cost would be even cheaper, simple supply and demand. Imagine if the test was 50 bucks. How many more women would have them done routinely. How many women could be saved. Mammos do not save lives, but therms sure could. It makes me just furious that a safe, cheap and painless alternative is out there, but it does not get taken seriously because the powers that be would stand to lose a fortune. Cancer is a business, our health be damned.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    I called around in my area for prices before having my Therm done and found that the going rate was $225 - $350 depending on the Doc and the services provided. I also inquired about the Abbreviations behind each persons name such as CTT, FIACT and so on.

    One clinic, which is operated by 2 nurses, brought in different techs to perform the therms and sent the film out to be read by Docs. Another lab was run by a Chiro who was certified to perform the therms but not qualified to analyze or interpret them. That seems to be fairly normal. The Colorado clinic I refered to earlier even has their Therms sent out to another Doc for anaIysis and interpretation. Mine was a bit pricey but I had copies of my results within an hour after spending an hour with the Doc going over his findings as he also reads, certifies and reports Therms. As with any diagnostic testing, the results are only as good as the performance and interpretation. As someone mentioned earlier, hopefully the prices will decrease as the demand increases.

    Vivre, here is some information for you:

    Can you provide my organization with a speaker?

    Yes, we certainly can. Simply contact us with a description of your organization (university, women's group, service club, etc.), and its location, and we would be glad to reply. Since we are frequently asked to speak on this important issue, please give us ample notice before the lecture in order for us to provide a speaker for you.

    You can contact:

    Pacific Chiropractic and Research Center
    Infrared Imaging
    621 Middlefield Road
    Redwood City, California 94063

    Phone: 650.361.8908
    email: info@breastthermography.com

    Clinic Director: William C. Amalu, DC, DABCT, DIACT, FIACT
    Thermographic Technician: Janet Lyon, CTT

  • Springtime
    Springtime Member Posts: 5,355
    edited December 2009

    Deni, would not do an ultrasound without a Mammo??? Paying for the friggin' mammo machine, I bet. The almighty dollar at work. Makes me CRAZY!!!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2009

    Here are some interesting articles:

    Excerpt from http://www.iact-org.org/articles/articles-paradigm-shift.html

    The initial use of thermography was for breast cancer screening and diagnosis. This was error. Thermography as a test of physiology is not capable of, and will never be capable of detecting breast cancer.

    Anatomical testing such as mammography can also not detect breast cancer. This is a paradox. Both procedures, thermography and mammography, demonstrate abnormalities indicating the possibility of the presence of cancer, as well as a host of other breast conditions. These clinical findings require differential diagnosis.

    ONLY laboratory confirmation of abnormal cell morphology can make the correct diagnosis of cancer.

    And...... http://www.iact-org.org/articles/articles-second-look.html

    The medical community investigated breast thermography quite extensively during the late 1970's and early 1980's. The FDA approved the procedure as an adjunctive tool in breast cancer screening, and many physicians, concerned about the radiation exposure of mammography, began to promote thermography as a replacement for mammography. This was error.

    And from the same article:

    Thermography was viewed as a possible early diagnostic tool for cancer. The reason I stated that this was error, is quite obvious, but almost totally overlooked by the clinicians and researchers of the day.

    Thermography is a test of PHYSIOLOGY. It does not look at anatomy or structure, and it only reads the infra-red heat radiating from the surface of the body.

  • KEW
    KEW Member Posts: 745
    edited December 2009

    I don't post here much, and I'm not looking to start anything, but I wanted to share that I've been having serious shoulder issues the last few months and when I asked the physical therapist if she could use ultrasound, which was used on my shoulder a few years ago--great way to get rid of pain, the PT said no, she wouldn't use it because there are links to ultrasound increasing cancer cell growth.  I have nothing to back it up, just what she told me. In my hospital they do not use ultrasound in the PT department for concern of stimulating cancer growth--it doesn't cause cancer she says it can stimulate cancer that is already there.  Huh...is about all I can say.

    KEW 

  • Springtime
    Springtime Member Posts: 5,355
    edited December 2009

    KEW, good grief!!

  • KEW
    KEW Member Posts: 745
    edited December 2009

    Springtime--No kidding when I see her again I'm going to ask her if she can give me the name of the study or studies.  It bugs me because a few years ago another PT used ultrasound on me the last time my  shoulder went wonky and the next year I had a basal cell carcinoma on my shoulder...now I can't help but wonder if they were related.  So many things to think about I worry my head may explode...

    KEW 

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2009

    Wow KEW. I have never heard that before. If you do get the name of the study, please post it for us.

  • KEW
    KEW Member Posts: 745
    edited December 2009

    Deni-I will but I'm not seeing her next week.  If I have time I will try and find it, but work is busy and I have a final paper due at school on Monday.  I hope there is no truth to it, she also tole me they won't ultrasound kids around their "growth plates."  I've never heard of anything like this before.

    KEW 

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited December 2009

    KEW: Good grief, indeed!

    And Deni, when you write: "My guess is that they have to introduce the fact that mammos do more harm than good SLOWLY." That's EXACTLY what I have been thinking the whole time.

    That's what they did with chemo: all of a sudden, around 2006, chemo is found to do more harm than good to HER- tumors........... Meanwhile, millions of women, including myself, have been put through it. Now, they have come up with those AIs and PARPs, with which they stand to make billions before side-effects are finally discovered, so I guess that's why they even bothered to partially "come clean" about chemo.

    My guess is that chemo is bad, PERIOD. And the more I think, the more I read this forum, the more I learn from you all, the more I am convinced that one should have a relationship with an (integrative) oncologist in the face of an advancing cancer, but would it preferable to stay with a naturapathic-oriented MD in any other case?

    Also: every time they find that something is dangerous for YOUNG women, but not for older women, I wonder: Humm?

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