balanced hormones

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I wanted to start a separate thread for this topic because every time I go to look at what has been posted on other threads, I end up going through hundres of post to get what I am looking for.

First I am not clear on exactly what "balanced" means. Balance with testosterone, progesterone or what . Can someone who has been down this road longer than me please explain what you have  learned so far

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  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited September 2009

    Hi Merilee!
    Balanced means that the estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, etc is all in the reference range.  For instance, when I had my hormone panel done by the naturopathic md (onc and obgyn wouldn't do it), they tested everything as follows:

    Estridiol

    Estrone

    Estriol

    Progesterone

    Testosterone

    DHEA

    SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin)

    16 Hydroxyestrone

    2 Hydroxyestrone

    2:16 Hydroxyestrone Ratio

    Free Androgen Index

    Based on the information gathered from the blood test, it showed that my progesterone was super low, so I am supplementing with progesterone, my 2:16 ratio was off, my 16 hydroxyestrone (the bad stuff) was too high, and my 2 hydroxyestrone too low (the good stuff), so I am on supplements to improve the ratio.  So in my mind, the purpose of balancing is to make sure that the bad estrogens are not dominant in your system, which is what causes problems.  Estrogen is not bad for you, its only bad when its not counteracted by your other hormones which will keep you healthy.

    I hope that makes sense, please let me know if it doesn't!!

    Lorraine ox

  • PS73
    PS73 Member Posts: 469
    edited September 2009

    Lorraine, you are my hero :) 

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited September 2009

    Ok that helps. I did not get the 16/2 checked so I will ask for that. Now what would a good ratio be? And is the 2/16 the estrone and the estsriol? Once you get the numbers, how do you figure the ratio?

    My lab results only list Estrone and estadiol. They all fell in the reference range but I wonder if there is a different reference range for BC survivors.

    Testosterone, Progesterone and DHEA also fell in the reference range.

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited September 2009

    Merilee,

    2 hydroxyestrone is a metabolite of estrone, and is the good estrogen, it represents a beneficial direction in estrogen metabolism its also called 2-OHE1, it implies a balanced metabolism. 16 hydroxyestrone, another metabolite of estrone, but is associated with estrogen-dependent diseases, like lupus and BC.  Normal or low levels are best.  The 2 should be between 112-656 pg/ml and the 16 should be between 213 and 680, at least they are the reference ranges, however 2 should always be higher than 16, creating the beneficial ratio, so the ratio should be between 0.40 and 1.40.  The higher the ratio the less association there is with estrogen dependent diseases, and the more likely it is that you will have a benefical hormone metabolism. 

    My onc and obgyn never considered any of these hormones, made no sense to me that this wouldn't be looked at...........I don't think the reference range is different for us, I think we were all whacked out BEFORE bc, that is why it happened, but thats just my opinion, I am not a doctor, but with all I have read, its making more and more sense!!

    PS73, your post made me cry.......we are all heros here, its such a battle, every day, to find the answers and be at peace with all of our choices.

    L

    ox

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited September 2009

    Wow, Lorraine!  You really know this stuff!  I'm impressed!  Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation.  And, Merilee -- great idea to start a separate thread!    Deanna

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited September 2009

    Deanna! Its been a long process of learning, I always felt in my gut, that there was so much more to this whole estrogen thing, so just took it upon myself to learn as much as I could, I feel so blessed to have such a wonderful place to share with all of you amazing women!  Thanks Merilee for starting the thread!

    L

    ox

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited September 2009

    I feel blessed to have found this site as well. It has been my best support. I need help getting over my resentment of my first ONC. She never tested my hormones, never tested to see if I would metabalize the tamoxifen, and never even mentioned that there is a blood test for tumor markers that would detect a potential problem in its earliest stages.Just continued to use scare tactics to try and get me to stay on the Tamoxifen... even after  told her I had lost the hearing in my left ear, my vision had dramaticlly decreased, and that I felt like I was being poisoned. Even then she did not mention the test to see if I wa metabalizing it. Shame on her!

    On monday I will go back to my DO and ask for the 2/16 test and the tumor marker test.

  • PS73
    PS73 Member Posts: 469
    edited September 2009

    :) Lorraine.  Could I call your ND?  I would love their input.  I don't feel that supressing my hormones is the right thing to do. It just doesn't make sense to me which is why Im nixing the tamoxifen.  I have been looking for an alternative to this that makes sense, Im looking for someone who specializes in hormones.  ..it really seems like you have done your homework on the subject - could you rec any books on the subject?

    Some say DIM some say Iodine, I just want a balanced system and whatever it takes, Ill do it.  ..speaking of hormones, my puppy is now humping his favorite blue towel (I think this house has had too many hormones on the brain lately).

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited September 2009

    PS73 - that was so funny!! I had a mental picture LOL!!

    My ND MAY do phone consults, I am not too sure, but you can definately check, I will PM you her info.  The books to read to start with, would be "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer, How Hormone Balance Can Save Your Life" Dr. John Lee and "Breakthrough" by Suzanne Somers.  Both are amazing books, and really opened my eyes. In the back of Suzanne Somers book, she lists the doctors specializing in hormones by state, which should really help.

    L

    ox

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited September 2009

    Fairy

    Can you please check the back of that book and look for Lansing Mi? I am having trouble tracking down what I need here.

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited November 2009

    For those of you who have been to the bioidentical docs already, can you please share what your Progesterone numbers where to consider them Low? Mine were 9.21 ng/ML 5 days before my period. The range for that time frame is 4.44- 28.03. While I am in the range, I wonder about being so close to the low end.  Do you think this may indicate a mild estrogen dominance? Also my DHEA was 105 and the range is 35-430, I was at less than the 50 percentile...I can't wait to see the doc and get answers to all of these questions. If anyone knows more than me I would appreciate a chime in.

  • Mom_of_boys
    Mom_of_boys Member Posts: 556
    edited November 2009

    My progesterone level... per my just-received result... was 0.6 pg/mL.  Keep in mind, since my ooph in January, I am now post-menopausal.

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited November 2009

    Thank you Mom_of_ boys

  • Barbeqrn
    Barbeqrn Member Posts: 200
    edited November 2009

    Lorraine Qx

    Could you tell me everything you take supplement wise....I feel behind in all of these studies and would like to get started taking nutritional supplements!  Thanks

    Barb

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited November 2009

    Barb!

    Here you go!!

    Green Tea Extract

    Fiber over 40grams per day

    DIM

    Omega 3 Fish Oil

    CoQ10

    Curcumin/Tumeric

    Selenium

    Vit D-3

    Iodine

    Vit C

    Calcium D-Glucarate       

    Calcium D-Glucarate is a relatively common nutrient found in many fruits and vegetables. Many believe that this nutrient aids the body in the elimination of many harmful substances and helps to lower abnormally high levels of steroid hormones including estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone. Both of these effects may help to protect against the development of certain tumors

    Metanx

    Vitamin A

    Vitamin E (liquid)

    Biotin

    Betaine

    Boron

    Glutamic Acid

    Hesperidin

    Inositol

    L-Phenylalanine

    L-Tyrosine

    Grape Seed Extract

    Alpha Lipoic Acid

    DMAE 

    Progesterone (2 weeks on 2 weeks off)

    Organic as much as I can! Run 5 x a week

  • Barbeqrn
    Barbeqrn Member Posts: 200
    edited November 2009

    WOW!  How do you get all of those in?  Do you ever get nauseous?  I am writing all of these down and will get some!  Thank you so much for you time in this!  The progesterone is through your doctor, right?  I will find a bioidentical hormone specialist and get some blood work done. 

  • Nan56143
    Nan56143 Member Posts: 349
    edited November 2009

    fairy49,

    Finally! Someone who is telling the women that estrogen is not bad for you but... sweetie...you have it all together!!       and I quote...

    "Estrogen is not bad for you, its only bad when its not counteracted by your other hormones which will keep you healthy."

    I have made a few posts here on this site, and recently they been in the alternative forum. My daughter Lori (47 now), was dx with TNBC in June of 2007, had chemo and rads, and now is on BHRT. I just read of all the vitamins/supplements that you are taking and it sounds like Lori's list! She is also on the Anticancer diet by Servan-Schreiber.

    As I said in another post, she knew in her heart if she did not do this that she would have been dx with mets by now.  What people fail to understand is that when your hormones are not balanced as nature would balance them, you are going to have serious problems or worse...diseases like cancer.

    Why are people so reluctant to take BHRT and yet will allow their doctors to prescribe the synthetic HRT and take drugs which just compound the problems? Have you read Somers new book Knockout? That will really open your eyes! I read The Sexy Years, Ageless, and Breakthrough but this one is the best!

    I hope you all do not mind if I drop in from time to time. I have been posting on the TNBC site for over 27 months, and it was just recently that the Alternative thread was added. (Not really a forum). No one wants to hear what my daughter is doing, and yet she is probably the only one who is doing well, and is feeling like she is in her thirties. I haven't read all of you posts fairy49, but are you going to an antiaging specialist like Lori?

    Nan

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited November 2009

    Hi Nan!

    Thanks! I am going to a naturopathic MD, she is getting my hormones in balance, I wished I would have known all of this years ago.......I have always been estrogen dominant, I just didn't know it!!  I am a huge fan of SS and love her books.

    Please keep coming back onto this forum, the ladies here are figuring it out and its awesome!

    L

    ox

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited November 2009

    Well, I finally got my lab reports back and need some help figuring out the 2/16. Under the 25-hydroxey section it says total 50.5 which appears t be midrange. Later down the page it is broken up in to 25-Hydoxy D2, and 25-Hydorxy D3. Is the D3 the 16 part? My D2 is 9.4 and my D3 is 41.1So is that 9.4/41.1 or 41.1/9.4? to get the 2/16 ratio? Sorry never was good at math LOL. Any help would be appreciated Also are the norm ranges that are on lab tests the same as optimal ranges used by docs who are helping with hormone balancing?

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited November 2009

    Hi Merilee!

    The 2 hydroxyestrone and the 16 hydroxyestrone should be listed seperately from the 25 hydroxy, they are not the same thing. Can you see them anywhere on the report?

  • Mom_of_boys
    Mom_of_boys Member Posts: 556
    edited November 2009

    Merilee... my CNP said that the norm ranges on the report generally lag way behind the research and therefore optimal levels. 

  • Nan56143
    Nan56143 Member Posts: 349
    edited November 2009

    Merilee,

    I posted many links a day or 2 ago from the Viamin D council, and  here are 2 more which may help you.You want your D3 levels to be at least in the 80's. My daughter Lori (dx with TNBC in 2007) has finally gotten her levels to 82.6, and her GYN said they can be higher. I will look for my D level test tomorrow and see exactly what it says, as I know I had the correct test, and my levels are 66. If your tests were done by Quest they can be incorrect.  

    Nan

    http://www.easy-immune-health.com/Normal-Vitamin-D-level.html

    http://ontrackreading.com/the-diet-piece/vitamin-d3-questions/

  • htrobison
    htrobison Member Posts: 12
    edited November 2009

    Thank you, thank you for this info, Lorraine! You have just said what I feel in my gut. I just saw an ND on Monday and he suggested having my estrogen levels checked. I am going to do that. I do not want to go on tamoxifin. There is also someone here locally that does all kinds of bio-marker tests. I need to find out more about what she does. Thanks again!

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited November 2009

    Just found this great thread and wanted to say how proud I am that our Fairy Godmother continues to patiently explain, for the umpteenth time, about the importance of hormone balance and all that she has learned. You guys might want to also check out the progesterone thread and bump up the Suzanne Somers thread for more info, although you will see we got a lot of hate mail on the last one. Some people just do not want to go this route, which is fine, but they do not want us to either. Fairy dear, you are doing God's work. Ten years from now, when BHRT is the treatment for bc, and tamox is just a distant nightmare, I will be happily say, I knew you when.

    Like Fairy said, you should all read Dr. Lee's book. He is the guru of hormone balance and his book is full of information and case studies. It is one of my bibles these days.

  • CrunchyPoodleMama
    CrunchyPoodleMama Member Posts: 1,220
    edited November 2009

    Lorraine, WOW, great info!!

    I have to add something that is VERY important beyond the food/nutrition/supplement/BHRT factor. It is that EXERCISE is absolutely CRITICAL to getting our hormones naturally in balance.

    Two other factors are:

    1) getting into the sunshine as much as possible (20 minutes several times a week at minimum, if you're fortunate enough to live in an area that's not dreary all the time -- this is for more reasons than just vitamin D3, btw) and

    2) getting 8 hours of sleep, starting by 10pm if at all possible, in COMPLETE darkness.

    During my fertility treatment, I became intimately familiar with my hormone levels. What I found was that when I took a drug to supposedly balance my hormones so that I could conceive, it barely worked. But when I did those three things (exercise, sunshine, and sleeping in complete darkness) along with a good diet, my hormones came perfectly into balance WITHOUT medication. 

    Between those things -- the great info and suggestions Lorraine has shared, with exercise, sunshine, and sleep in complete darkness, there is NO reason we can't bring our hormones into balance naturally! Of course, you'll never hear a doctor tell you that you have to sleep in total darkness or get sunlight exposure, and they only give lip service to diet and exercise!!

    edited to add: Oh, and this probably goes without saying, but excess body fat CAN and WILL throw your hormones off balance. I know this was an issue for me. I had always been slim, but began gaining a lot of weight in 2005 with my first miscarriage (and gained more and more after each one). Of course, if we're eating well and exercise, our weight will naturally optimize, but I just wanted to mention it because having even an extra 30-40 pounds can make you estrogen dominant (as I learned from experience at my peak weight).

  • Merilee
    Merilee Member Posts: 3,047
    edited November 2009

    fairy

     Can you tell me what Boron does? Betin boitn,  hesperidin &

    Glutamic Acid  L-Phenylalanine as well?
  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited November 2009

    Info on Boron:

    There is a boron-containing natural antibiotic, boromycin, isolated from streptomyces.[88][89] Boron is an essential plant nutrient, required primarily for maintaining the integrity of cell walls. Conversely, high soil concentrations of > 1.0 ppm can cause marginal and tip necrosis in leaves as well as poor overall growth performance. Levels as low as 0.8 ppm can cause these same symptoms to appear in plants particularly sensitive to boron in the soil. Nearly all plants, even those somewhat tolerant of boron in the soil, will show at least some symptoms of boron toxicity when boron content in the soil is greater than 1.8 ppm. When this content exceeds 2.0 ppm, few plants will perform well and some may not survive. When boron levels in plant tissue exceed 200 ppm symptoms of boron toxicity are likely to appear.[90][91][92]

    As an ultratrace element, boron is necessary for the optimal health of rats, although it is necessary in such small amounts that ultrapurified foods and dust filtration of air is necessary to show the effects of boron deficiency, which manifest as poor coat/hair quality. Presumably, boron is necessary to other mammals. No deficiency syndrome in humans has been described. Small amounts of boron occur widely in the diet, and the amounts needed in the diet would, by analogy with rodent studies, be very small. The exact physiological role of boron in the animal kingdom is poorly understood.[93]

    Boron occurs in all foods produced from plants. Since 1989 its nutritional value has been argued. It is thought that boron plays several biochemical roles in animals, including humans.[94] The U.S. Department of agriculture conducted an experiment in which postmenopausal women took 3 mg of boron a day. The results showed that supplemental boron reduced excretion of calcium by 44%, and activated estrogen and vitamin D. However, whether these effects were conventionally nutritional, or medicinal, could not be determined. The US National Institutes of Health quotes this source:

    Total daily boron intake in normal human diets ranges from 2.1-4.3 mg boron/kg body weight (bw)/day.

    Glutamic Acid:

    http://www.evitamins.com/healthnotes.asp?ContentID=2855004

    Couldn't find anything on Betin Boitin

    L

    ox

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited November 2009

    Vivre you are so sweet! I am on a mission with the whole hormone balance aspect, I KNOW its key!! Anything I can do and share I will do it, this is my passion, I just wished I knew all of this BEFORE bc..........I have all of my non bc gals on supplements and sending them off to the naturopath to get their hormones tested - prevention!!

    L

    ox

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited November 2009

    Fairy you are making laugh! I am so glad that somone else is annoying everyone she meets besides me! My poor SIL was telling me today that she keeps getting headaches, and I ran to my bookshelf and told her to start reading about hormone balance! I think we are on the same mission. I do not want anyone I know to go through the hell of bc. It can be prevented if women are able to get the facts. I feel the same way you do-if only I knew then what I know now. I never knew how much I never knew. Now I am obsessed with learning everything I can!

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited November 2013


    Got this in an email this morning, more interesting reading! :)


    http://www.womenshealthnetwork.com/thyroidhealth/thyroidandmenopause.aspx


    Edited by Mods to update link

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