Mammogram or Shammogram? Roll Call Time

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weesa
weesa Member Posts: 707
Mammogram or Shammogram? Roll Call Time
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  • weesa
    weesa Member Posts: 707
    edited November 2009

    Hey, Crusaders of all stages: While mammograms have undeniably been helpful for many of us, there is a large group of women here who had mammograms regularly and were shocked to learn belatedly that the results cannot be relied upon. We're in a unique position to put out a warning for better awareness during this, our awareness month of October. PM me if you would like to be included. Start with the number of mammograms you had with a false negative,(might have to give your best estimate here) size of breast cancer when eventually discovered, and stage. For instance:

           Weesa, approx. 10 mammograms false negative; 5 cm+, stage 3A, IDC self -discovered.

           Shanagirl, regular clear mammo's 5.2cm, stage 3a, self-discovered; 3 mamm-shamms in      6  mo.    

            KerryMac,Mammo and US missed 6cm stage 3,  self-discovered

           sugarplum, yearly clear mammos stage 3c when insisted on biopsy

           Amig1, 22 yearly clear mammograms, 2cm stage 3b

            anniebford, mamos and US did not detect, eventual biopsy did= ilc stage 3a

           nash, mammogram clear 2.7cm, ilc,self-discovered

           nash's mother, clear mammograms, 4.5cm idc self-discovered

           dlb823, yearly clear mammos 1cm, stage 2a

           thegoodfight, 23 yrs.of perfect, clear mammos, 3cm, stage 2a

           lopsided_blogger, mammos clean, 2cm, stage 2b

          Mai605, clear mammos, 10cm+ stage 3b self-discovered

          MarieK, annual clear mammos, 5cm, stage 3b self-discovered

          Brenda-R, normal mammos 4cm stage 3a

          Victoriasecret, regular clear mamo's and us , 7.5.cm, 6cm, ilc stage 3c

          everyminute, clear mammo's 2cm, 1cm, stage 3; 2 negative mammos 6cm stage 3c

         alaskalady, 21 annual clear mammo's, 2cm stage 3a

         fortunate1  22 regular clear mammos (approx.) 1cm stage 1 ilc, self-discovered

         clariceak, regular clear mammos 3cm+  stage 3b

         LittleRed 4 annual clear mammos 3cm stage 2b

         Shockedat39, clean mammogram, 3cm stage 3a, detected by US

         JC3win, clean baseline mammo, 4 tumors, 6cm stage 3a

          hrf, clear mammo and us, 2cm stage 2, ilc

          HelenaJ 7 annual mammo, clear, 1cm stage 1, detected by US

          caaclark 1 mammo, 1.6cm stage 3a, mammo missed lump but picked up on some dcis

          Texas357 13 clear mammos, stage 3a, ilc

           activern, 3 mammo shamo's did not detect IBC

          cherneski, clear mammos, "just cysts" 2.5 cm, ilc .5 stage 3

           simonsh, darned, useless mammos 2cm, stage 2

           ihopeg, 7 annual clear mammos, 5cm, stage 3c (3 separate tumors eventually diagnosed by US)

           kk69Z 18 annual clear mammograms, stage 1

           TammyLou, 1  clear, diagnostic mammogram stage 3c, nodes, no lump

           DiDit, 6 annual clear mammograms, stage 3a, "large bc"

           Mai605, 7 annual mammograms all clear, 6cm+ stage 3b, self-discovered

           TOB, regular yearly mammo's "DCIS grew undetected for years until mx necessary"

          Kmccraw423, annual mammo's and us, 4cm dcis

         radiant, 3-5 clean mammograms, many cancerous lumps, stage 3c now  mets

          Beach, several clear mammo's, idc 2.4, dcis 6cmx6cm, stage 2a

          rumoret, 4 clear mammos, ida, 2cm, stage 2a, self-discovered

         another_mom, mammo clear, idc, detected on US

         rumoret's mother, many annual mammos, 2,5cm, self-discovered

         rumoret's friend, Caarol, clear mammo, stage 4 self-discovered, passed away 1-15-09

         Americanpinay, 3 clean mammos, and clean us, 3cm, stage 3a

         Chainsawz, mammos, us, mri, 3cm stage 4, self-discovered

         enjoyful, many mammos and us all clear, 1.9cm stage 4

         webstertoo, digital mammogram, clear, 9 months later, 1cm stage 2a self-discovered

         SherriG, 8 clear mammograms, us also clear; diagnosed when insisted on biopsy, stage 3 ILC

         Christine2000, approx. 11 clear mammograms, 3cm stage 3a, self-discovered

         danadero, 5 clear mammograms, one negative us, 1.8cm, stage 3

  • LindaLou53
    LindaLou53 Member Posts: 929
    edited October 2009

    Weesa, You need to know the time frame in which a woman was receiving mammograms prior to her tumor being found.  Some women may have been getting mammos annually or more frequently, while others may have had years between mammos. There really is no conclusive way to know if a mammogram was "false negative" unless a tumor was discovered by a different method the same day you had the mammo.  Certainly assumptions can be made that a mammogram missed a tumor if a large slow growing tumor such as Lobular is found within months or even a few years after a "clean" mammogram.  But you would not be able to know for sure particularly in the case of fast growing aggressive tumors that a mammogram done a year earlier was actually "false negative". In addition to size of the tumor at time of detection, the breast cancer type ie. ILC, IDC, IBC, DCIS etc. would also be important to know, plus the grade for aggressiveness.  Lobular is notorious for not being picked up on mammogram and is usually a slower growing BC.  You will find many ladies on the Lobular forum who were never detected by mammogram.

    I had 6 month and annual mammograms after my first BC diagnosis in 2000 (IDC, Stage 2a, 1.2cm, grade 2). My routine annual mammogram in Oct 2005 was declared to be "clean"  just as the previous 5 years of mammos were and yet my 5cm Stage 3C Grade 1 ILC was discovered by palpation 15 minutes after the "clean" mammogram was done. My docs now believe that the ILC was present in 2000 when I was being treated for IDC in the opposite breast, but the ILC was never detected.  There is no way to know absolutely for sure however that my ILC was there in 2000.  We DO know that the mammogram in 2005 definitely failed to detect the tumor.

  • victoriasecret
    victoriasecret Member Posts: 333
    edited October 2009

    I had my first mammo at age 24...will never forget the words from my little german doc."I sink I veel a lump" not making fun just remember his accent I freaked I was there to have my IUD out and and start my family...I was in my cousins wedding party that weekend ...my weekend was ruined...got the call alls good...so because I had dense "lumpy"breasts I had at least 3 more scares through out my 30s & 40s ..I guess I got used to the uh ohs and thought it would never happen to me ...Just remember the techs comments "you have VERY dense breasts"but I digress...

     I had many mammos & ultra sounds  untill finally my 7.5 cm tumor was discovered this past June..I had always gone to the same clinic for my tests...my Doc said something like "I dont really like them"...I said "Thx for telling me that now !!!"I had calicifications show up about 3 years still no further looksie..sister daiagnosed with BC no red flag from our genetics team..Doc found something? she did not like...which was probably the start of my ILC about 3 years or so mammo came back fine no suspicion...If I could go back to that German doctor at age 24 I would have been even MORE proactive.

    My file was quite heavy when I had to pick it up to bring it to all my pretest appts.

    ok so answer is MANY !!..I will shut up now..

    much love Cheryl

  • KerryMac
    KerryMac Member Posts: 3,529
    edited October 2009

    No Mammogram, but missed by an ultrasound. I was breast feeding.

  • everyminute
    everyminute Member Posts: 1,805
    edited October 2009

    I had a mammo in Dec - all clear

    I found lump on 5/31, had mammo on 6/1 - DIDNT SHOW! Did show on ultrasound.

    At surgery on 7/10 there was another 1cm tumor that didnt show on U/S or MRI.

  • KerryMac
    KerryMac Member Posts: 3,529
    edited October 2009

    Didn't show on MRI? Wow, that really is frightening.

  • YATCOMW
    YATCOMW Member Posts: 664
    edited October 2009

    Mammogram in 2002 was negative

    Mammogram and Sonogram were negative 2004 after I found a lump myself.

    Insisted on a biopsy anyway.......tumor the size of an apple.

    No one ever told me that dense breasts meant anything re: cancer

    Jacqueline

  • alaskalady
    alaskalady Member Posts: 45
    edited October 2009

    I had been getting mammograms since I was 32  started in 1977 (53 now) under the advise of my doctor because I had very dense breast. Every time I felt something different I would run to the doctor. Each time I was told "oh its just dense breast tissue", even had ultra sounds done.  Every time my mammograms would come back normal. In 2007 I felt a new tiny lump, again run to the doctor and have the mammogram and again was told the same thing. Then in 2008 a month before I was due for my yearly mammogram I noticed that my nipple looked different and that tiny lump seem to be bigger. I was in a different state at the time and right away they did a bisopy and well here I am in the stage 3 group. No one ever told me dense breasts meant anything either.

  • fortunate1
    fortunate1 Member Posts: 644
    edited October 2009

    I had almost yearly mammos from 40 on (I'm 62 now). Some years I was tardy. I have dense lumpy breasts, and that was always commented on with no hint that it was any sort of problem. I just figured my breasts were nice and firm, believe it or not, and that it was good that mammograms could sort out all those lumps. I did not worry. Nine months after a clear mammo I found an extra big lump, and eventually asked my PCP. The lobular tumor didn't show on the mammo at all, but did on an ultrasound. Thank goodness the damn thing formed an atypical lump.

  • clariceak
    clariceak Member Posts: 752
    edited October 2009

    Had yearly mammo and wasn't told I had dense breasts until the mammo which confirmed my dx.  So here's my info.

    Clear yearly mammo Jan 09

    Found lump in summer 09 which turned out to be a larger tumor, over 3cm, and probably the worst path report you can have without being Stage IV.  I'm refusing to look at it again since it sent me into a tailspin when I first read it on the plane.

    I have decided it may be my mission in life to have my public health hospital, which receives large gov't grants for pink ribbon walks and bc prevention, to identify high risk women and at the minimum, offer or encourage them to have more frequent screening using the best methods available.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2009

    Jan 08 watching for calcifications r breaast asked to return in one month

    Feb 08 viewed microcalcifications normal asked to return in 6 mths

    Aug 08 viewed and cleared as normal

    Dec 08 I found large lump under L nipple

    Jan 09 core biopsy found 4.8 tumor

    Mar 09 Mastectomy and SN biopsy  tumor turned out to be 5.2 and positive cells in SN

    Apr 09 Axillary Node dissection  17 nodes removed 1 positive for cells  followed with chemo, rad and diagnosed Stage 3A

  • LittleRed
    LittleRed Member Posts: 223
    edited October 2009

    Ladies:

    This is a topic that needs press.  Mamos have been sold as being far more effective at detection than they are.  Women need to know that there are other methods that may be more effective given their individual circumstances.

    I was scheduled for my annual mamogram this past May, but had a mx in late April instead.  Dense breasts, annual mammo's.  Cleared May 2008, I went in to my doctor in February because I was concerned that one of my "normal lumps" certainly wasn't - Dx early March.  Had they been doing ultrasound, it would likely have been picked up much sooner.  How can they give you an OK on a mamo when they know there's a lump, but they can't see what it is?  I'm 44.  Started mamo at 40.  I have been going to a world class hospital in Boston, and thought I was getting the best.  Guess I was wrong.

  • shockedat39
    shockedat39 Member Posts: 252
    edited October 2009

    I had a mammogram in May 09.  Clear.  I found a lump in fall 09.  Went to my Ob/Gyn who sent me for a diagnostic mammogram.  Clear.  Walked from the mammogram room to the ultrasound room.  3cm tumor found on ultrasound.  The radiologist told me that he was ready to send me home after the mammogram.  Thank goodness he didn't!

    Mammograms do not always detect cancer.  I am living (thank God) proof.  If I can do anything positive out of this awful experience it will be spreading the word to as many people as I can.  Don't get me wrong, I believe they are VERY important but I want everyone to know that just because they had a clear mammogram doesn't mean always mean no cancer. 

  • weesa
    weesa Member Posts: 707
    edited October 2009

    Ladies, thanks for your thoughtful posts. I am going to distill your remarks into a roll call this weekend. If any of you would prefer not being in my roll call, let me know.l think this is a word that needs to get out!  Linda Lou--I know this is not a very scientifically accurate endeavour; I tried to simplfy it and just make an impact on women who are over-relying on mammograms. (There are several women in my office who even knowing my story, and having complicated breast issues themselves. are stopping at just the mammogram and not asking for an US or a breast MRI.) At any rate, Lindalou, you can always be depended on for an accurate post, and your point is well taken here.

  • fortunate1
    fortunate1 Member Posts: 644
    edited October 2009

    I am so glad that my PCP sent me for both a mammo and ultrasound when I showed her the lump. I thought I was being paid attention to because "the patient discovered a palpable lump" and they were covering their asses. But so many of you were sent home. That's really scary.

    So the next big question for us. How should we be screened now? I kept the unaffected breast. A mammo isn't likely to make me feel confident. My Onc says that MRI's are notorious for false positives. Ultrasound perhaps?

    I was telling every woman I knew to do their self exams. Maybe I'll start up again and it will be my contribution to this PINK month. 

  • jc3win
    jc3win Member Posts: 61
    edited October 2009

    Clean baseline mammo in May 2009. Felt lump 2 weeks later. (Did the mammo "wake" it up??)

    Tumors were plain as day on the MRI. 4 tumors in descending size from y nipple to my underarm covering an area of over 6 cm. SLN positve for micro mets.

  • hrf
    hrf Member Posts: 3,225
    edited October 2009

    In Feb of this year, I had mammogram and u/s which were both clear. The doctor couldn't feel anything in my breast. But the mri showed an area of enhancement. I had a 2.2 cm ILC. I have since learned that mammograms frequently miss ILC.

  • HelenaJ
    HelenaJ Member Posts: 1,133
    edited October 2009

    Found a lump in October 2008, went for mammogram - clear, fortunately I also had an ultrasound scheduled immediately after - diagnosed the next day.  Because my younger sister was diagnosed at 35 I have been having annual mammograms since turning 40 (I am 47) - all clear.  I did however have dense breasts and a rare form of breast cancer.  Both forms of screening are so important (and by the sounds of things so are MRIs).

  • weesa
    weesa Member Posts: 707
    edited October 2009

    Dear breastfriends (thank you Heidi for this great expression) This was therapeutic for me putting together this roll call.My anger has turned into energy to let people know not to put all your eggs in the mammogram basket!

    Let me know about inaccuracies. Help get the word out. Send me more stories.

  • caaclark
    caaclark Member Posts: 936
    edited October 2009

    I felt the lump (too young for mammo since no risk factors).  Mammo DID NOT pick up lump but ultrasound did.  At the same time the mammo did pick up extensive DCIS.

  • Ihopeg
    Ihopeg Member Posts: 399
    edited October 2009

    I had my first mammo at age 31, after I felt a lump. I had that lump removed(left breast). Then I didn't have a mammo until age 40. At age 41 felt another lump in rt breast, had removed. Both removals were benign and done in hospital. Then had 6 more annual mammos. Last one in March 2006 was negative. Then November 2006, rt breast didnt look right. I had mammo then, and they finally saw something. After ultrasound, saw 3 separate tumors, that dr. said had been there for 8 to 10 years!!!

  • kk69Z
    kk69Z Member Posts: 167
    edited October 2009

    I have been getting yearly mamograms since I was about 35. I'm 52 now. I also have dense breasts. I had one in April 2007 and that came out o.k. and my next was a year later, April 2008 showing "something". I'm sure maybe it was there in April 2007, but being dense they couldn't see it. I had a friend who died of BC and I know she had just had a mamogram thre months prior to being diagnosed. I asked the person who reads the films and he told me that not all cancers can be detected through mamogram. Where I go they have digital machines, which are better then the regular ones. They had just gotten them in 2008 when I was diagnosed. So I'm glad they got them.

  • kk69Z
    kk69Z Member Posts: 167
    edited October 2009

    Oh my I forgot to give you my type. Stage 1, Grade 1 IDC 0/4 nodes.

  • TammyLou
    TammyLou Member Posts: 740
    edited October 2009

    Shammogram.

     Sorry.

     According to my mammogram...my first and only was diagnostic mammogram...I don't have breast cancer and I never have. 

     Too bad it wasn't accurate.  Fixed matted lymph nodes, stage 3C.  No breast lump.

     I personally think "pee on early detection" whenever I hear the spiel.  (Except I have cleaned it up for publication.)

    tl

    P.S.  I went to my doctor with shoulder pain...I thought I had torn my rotator cuff.  Fortunately, he thought the lump under my armpit warranted further investigation.  Diagnosed by surgical excision of the lymph node.  Definitely shammogram.  Definitely.

  • Texas357
    Texas357 Member Posts: 1,552
    edited October 2009

    For the record, Weesa's got mine correct. Mine were annual and on time every year.

    I heard a radio commercial yesterday that said, "Mammograms save lives because they detect breast cancer at its earliest stage ..."

    That's the kind if misinformation that should be corrected. There's a false sense of security out there. The media and the so-called experts have an entire month to set the record straight -- but they don't.

    Yeah, I felt like I was kicked in the stomach. We don't deserve this. We don't deserve to have our doctors tell us we're fine, not to worry -- and then have our lives endangered because of ignorance.

  • anniebford
    anniebford Member Posts: 128
    edited October 2009

    I had my first mammo and us  at 37 because I basically complained until my doc would order it. I had one area in particular that I felt something and they looked closely with us after the mammo showed nothing there. The us also showed nothing there. The tech who handed me the report and films  that I was to deliver back to my dr said "come back in 3 years when your over 40". I went to my car read the report and then went to my dr's office. I got the all clear from them. I was still not comfortable about it all but let it ride for 5 mos. I went back when that area developed a texture and a tiny little bump appeared on my areola. My doc looks and says she's worried this could be bc and sent me to a surgeon. He sent me for another mammo and us. It was a different place than before. Got the mammo then went into the other room for the us. The tech called in her boss and he looked a good long time before telling me this needed a us guided biopsy to rule out ILC. The biopsy results confirmed what he thought. So, here I am at stage 3. I would call the mammogram a shammogram in my case.

    Annie 

  • Mai605
    Mai605 Member Posts: 64
    edited October 2009

    I'm 47, have had on-time, annual mammos since 40, all clear. 

    Sept '08, all clear mammo.

    Feb '09, breast exam from doctor, nothing. 

    April '09, self discovery

    I had dense breast tissue which I'm told, makes my ILC very hard to detect, which is why many women are Stage 3 before it's found... unfortunately for us.  They tell me I've probably had this maybe even up to ten years, maybe more.  The tumor was a little over 10 cm, Stage 3B.  They found DCIS in my left breast also at time of bi-mx, tumor <1 cm.

    You can see the pattern here, most women who's cancers were not detected were diagnosed with ILC, or IDC.  That's the misconception.  There definitely needs to be more information to women about this.  I didn't even know there were different types of breast cancer b4 my diagnosis!

    Am I angry?  I wasn't, but ignorance is bliss.  The more I become educated, the more frustrated I become.  I'd LOVE to have been diagnosed at an early stage where going through a bi-mx, losing my hair, radiation, tissue expanders in my chest that feel like cement blocks, pain, weight gain, (do I need to say more), was nothing more than a thought, or someone else's reality?  No girls, you get it.... be nice though right?

  • weesa
    weesa Member Posts: 707
    edited October 2009

    Where they heck do we go from here? I have listed a few(!) names from people who pm'd me or responded to this topic or Shana girl's. I can sense the frustration and anger from the women who are now fighting for their lives. We know that ibc, lobular, and bc's that don't calcify don't get picked up on mammograms.We know that occasionally people reading mammograms don't get it right.It doesn't seem feasible to send every woman for a breast MRI or an US, for instance.

    Please however get the word out to women who are naive about breast cancer, who are just starting out on our journey that mamograms are not right 100% of the time. I wish somebody had told me!

  • cherneski
    cherneski Member Posts: 726
    edited October 2009

    imho when they talk about bc in public it is still all cute cuddly and curable.  They dont tell you the real story!  They take women that were dx early and had an doable time with tx.  They never show you someone like me who has such sever SEs that some days I couldnt get out of bed.  They never show  you someone who has life long everlasting  SEs.  They never tell you about IBC.

    They never tell you!  

    So I am not posting it twice check out my idea to get the word out and really make a difference in early detection on Shanagirls thread.

    If I had known then that my "cysts" could have been cancer I would have insisted on a biopsy.  I would have sold my house to pay for it if I needed too!  I was told they are soooooo common.  They were NOTHING to worry about.  Well were they only cysts?  Or were they cancer?  I will never know!  

  • weesa
    weesa Member Posts: 707
    edited October 2009

    Thanks, Crusaders, for all who wrote of their poignant stories of ending up stage 3 because their bc was missed repeatedly. All I can say in return is I will work hard to get the word out ( if you have a clear mammogram, how can you know if you are truly cancer free or you are one of the minority (rather large minority) who have a dangerous breast cancer that can threaten your life?)  There are more names for me to add to the roll call, which will continue until the end of our awareness month.

    Remember that I am almost 7 years ned! My bc was hit hard with every treatment, just as yours has been and it worked!

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