Thermology

I've been getting yearly breast thermology since 2007.  My latest came back yesterday as TH-4s.  This is defined as an abnormal study with significant risk for breast cancer.  They are suggesting targeted ultrasound, MRI and mammography (my latest mam in June came back 'happy to report, no issues found).  I understand that thermology can find cancer 5-8 years earlier than other testing, and the letter I got said there is a 65% chance its cancer.  I don't know many women who use thermology - have any of you used this form of screening?  Were the results accurate?  Any advice? My doctor's office is closed today :-(

Comments

  • LJ13-2
    LJ13-2 Member Posts: 235
    edited October 2009

    It's not an approved breast cancer screen because the sensitivity and specificity have not been characterized in large randomized multicenter clinical trials.

    The claim that it detects cancer 5-8 years before other screening methods is bogus. This would be 5-8 years before the cancer even exists, in many cases. What, it knows cells are going to become abnormal by some predictive method? Bah.

    You should get a mammogram if you haven't had one in over a year and are over 40.

  • gailian
    gailian Member Posts: 11
    edited October 2009

    I have been using Thermography as a screening tool also & the reports did show changes in breast tissue before my diagnosis.  In my case, I found the breast cancer myself in  between the  mammography & thermography testing.  I had a pronouced dimple in my breast when I lifted my arm up (to apply deodrant.)  At this point try not to worry too much until you see your MD or ND.  I'm assuming you had the thermography suggested by either a medical or naturopathic doctor, who will help you with the results & recommend further testing.  Keep us posted...we all learn from one another. 

  • newmanl43
    newmanl43 Member Posts: 4
    edited October 2009

    I had a mammogram and ultrasound yesterday.  They found something they want to biopsy (a cyst with jagged edges???) and scheduled one for next Tuesday.  It was in the spot noted on the thermology. 

  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited October 2009

    The good thing about thermography is it shows hot spots that could indicate cancer cells, which indeed in MOST cases have been present for years before traditional tests can see. This enables us to proceed with alternative methods to fight the "dis" ease and even eradicate it before it becomes a tumor.

    The negative, is we don't have any medical tests accurate or advanced enough to confirm what thrmography shows in many instances.  The best thing to do is consult with your medical  or health professional and proceed to focus on your health.

    I would encourage you to read Beating Cancer With Nutrition by Patrick Quillin. Also, Breast Cancer?  Breast Health by Susan Weed

    We know, for instance from the growth factors of MY tumor, that it was there for at least 2 years prior to being found.  That means that I had 2 mammograms and one ultra sound that missed it! That doesn'tgive me a lot of confidence in traditional medicine and testing!  Do your research and listen to your inner being!

  • LJ13-2
    LJ13-2 Member Posts: 235
    edited October 2009

    Carol, where did you get those mammograms?

    Rather than getting unproven screenings with thermographs, most women should be looking at getting digital mammograms from centers that specialize in breast imaging. Even if it means driving 5 hours to a major city where these facilities may be located.

    Listen to your inner being? What does that mean? There are all kinds of people wandering around in the inner city listening to their inner beings. They too have a treatable medical condition.

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 1,245
    edited October 2009

    LJ13-2, mammogram didn't see my BC, even though I have had one twice a year since I was 40, neither did an ultra sound,(all done at one of the countries top breast centers) if there are other options, shouldn't we have the opportunity to explore them?

  • LJ13-2
    LJ13-2 Member Posts: 235
    edited October 2009

    Re thermography:

    In addition mammograms: no problem. If it makes you feel better, and you can afford it, go for it.

    Instead of mammograms: not a good idea. If they do the studies, and if it proves to be an effective screen, then the picture changes.

    Thermography is "pushed" by the alternative movement over mammograms and this is not good for women. Their performance hasn't been proven yet.

  • deni63
    deni63 Member Posts: 601
    edited October 2009

    LJ-13 - Do you realize that you are on the "Alternative, Complementary and Holistic" thread? The woman who contribute to these threads are here because they have educated themselves on alternative treatments. We believe in these treatments and have had great success with these treatments. 

    To me, your only successful experience is the one that works for you. We learn from one another and share experiences. Large studies are not always done on alternative treatments because there is not big money to be made. 

    If you are not open to exploring the possibility that there may be something available that is effective and not toxic or harmful, than why are you here? Perhaps you might be more comfortable on the conventional threads.

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited October 2009

    Thermography has been around for at least 30 years, and many top North American cancer centres have done many studies on its effectiveness (or lack of).  I'm wondering why -- if it IS so good at detecting problems before other methods -- isn't it used much more extensively?  I know we've had this discussion before, and someone suggested there's more money in mammograms....well, that wouldn't be the case in Canada's not-for-profit health system.  In fact, if thermography were more effective and cheaper, then I'm quite sure there would be one in every hospital here.

  • LJ13-2
    LJ13-2 Member Posts: 235
    edited October 2009

    Alternative medicine is a multi-billion dollar industry Deni. Do you think you can get free themographs? Do you think the people in that business are non-profit?

    Oh, and I am quite comfortable here, thanks for your concern. It's touching.

  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited October 2009

    I did have my mammograms and ultra sounds in one of the largest cities in America!  My oncologist, who happens to be a personal friend of mine and is also affiliated with Sloan Kettering told me it is like looking for a cotton ball in a cloud.  Remember, physicians are just people like you and I, who have been trained to do a job!  They are not perfect.  So, I accept the fact that perhaps a "human" made an error in judgment regarding my mammograms, given the fact that I had over 35 cysts in one breast.  The ultra sound tech stopped counting at that point.

    Mammograms are also not without danger.  They do radiate us!  

    I also have a dear friend who is an 11 year cancer survivor who had surgery and then refused chemo and radiation.  She has been inspirational to me in my journey, though, I did have traditional therapy and surgery until now.  AT this point for many reasons, I, too have chosen to go more holistic.   You can say what you want about things being unproven, but 11 years cancer free speaks to my heart!

     LJ13-2, To me , listening to your "inner being" means listening to your intuition! taking the time to nurture yourself.  Perhaps, If you are a Christian, and pray,thinking of it like taking some time alone with God.   If things don't seem quite right, perhaps it could be a medical "dis" ease that makes you feel uncomfortable in some way.   I think we get so busy with life, that we forget to take the time to nurture ourselves.   Everyone is on a different spiritual/conscious level and that is ok.   I believe our bodies want to be healthy and that is why when things aren't quite right, perhaps we have different feelings.  For me, for instance there were things in my life that didn't seem quite right, but I didn't have a clue that I had breast cancer.  I had fybrocystic breasts for so many years, that when I checked my breast, I was feeling 2 cysts and my tumor was between them!  I was moving and normally would have been thrilled, yet, somehow, it didn't seem timely.  I craved vanilla cake for at least one year prior to my diagnosis.  We know that sugar feeds cancer, which is why they inject us with nuclear glucose when they do a PET scan.  

    I like to think of it as complimentary therapy, though, certainly everyone is free at least for now to choose how we want to treat our own body.  More and more medical centers including Sloan Kettering and MD Anderson are open to complimentary therapies.  MD A used Reiki, while if you Google Ashwaganda, which is an herb, you will see that Sloan Kettering has found it useful in fighting breast cancer.  It doesn't mean to totally negate medicine, but certainly to consider what you are comfortable with. and weigh the pros and cons of the side effects.  Many of these "complimentary/alternative methods have been used for many, many years. 

    If you are not comfortable with it, that is OK too!  It is your body, just as I am treating mine as My body, mind and spirit. 

    I don;'t know if you are familiar with Dr. Christiane Northrupt, who has been on PBS and also on Oprah.  She is a member of the Wise Women's Way ( which is an organization of many women, physicians and alternative practitioners) who are working together to share their knowledge just to stay healthy.  Remember, knowledge is power!

  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited October 2009

    P.S.  The radiologist who did my most recent mammogram told me he is hoping they start doing more thermography, as he had recently been studying more about them! 

  • LJ13-2
    LJ13-2 Member Posts: 235
    edited October 2009

    I hope that testing proves thermography to be a valuable screening test for bc. Truly. Any edge we can get on this disease is ok with me.

    But I can only put my "faith" into tests and treatments that are proven. These trials that they do to prove the effectiveness of a test or treatment ... they also prove that the test/treatment is safe.

  • carol1949
    carol1949 Member Posts: 562
    edited October 2009

    Just wondering if you caught the American Cancer Society this past week saying that our current screening methods were not working.

    Thermography may also not be perfect, but it is at least without radiation to our body. Yes, there is money to be made in alternative therapies, but certainly you can't expect these entities to offer things for free.  They do have to make a living and cover costs.

    My Lugol's iodine which does about the same thing Femara does costs me about $60. per year instead of $400. per month.

    Certainly, at least now, we are still free to choose what treatments/and/or tests we are willing to have.  The way this country and insurance industry is headed, that may not always be the case.  Certainly where insurance is involved it already isn't the case, as they can dictate which tests they will or will not pay for!  The fact that major insurance companies have CEO's who are also lobbyists in Washington concerns me!

  • HealthyNow
    HealthyNow Member Posts: 1
    edited November 2009

    I used it and it found what the ultrasound missed. The MRI confirmed its findings. I used an alternative to remove it and I am healthy now.  There have actually been clinical studies done in it in Europe and Theremology has come a long way just as many other modalities had to. I will follow up with a Thermology over a mam any day. It is capable of seeing what is developing into the future. It works- my life speaks of that.

    Over thirty years of clinical use and more than 8,000 peer-reviewed studies in the medical literature have established thermography as a safe and effective means to examine the human body (1-10). It is completely non-invasive, and as such does not require the use of radiation or other potentially harmful elements.- http://www.iact-org.org/patients/what-is-thermography.html

    It is also FDA approved.

    Stark. A., Way, S. The Screening of Well Women for the Early Detection of Breast Cancer Using Clinical Examination with Thermography and Mammography. Cancer 33: 1671-1679, 1974
    Researchers screened 4,621 asymptomatic women, 35% whom were under age 35 y.o. and detected 24 cancers (7.6 per 1000) with a sensitivity and specificity of 98.3% and 93.5% respectively

    Y.R. Parisky, A. Sardi, R. Hamm, K. Hughes, L. Esserman, S. Rust, K.Callahan, Efficacy of Computerized Infrared Imaging Analysis to Evaluate Mammographically Suspicious Lesions. AJR:180, January 2003 Compared results of Infrared imaging prior to biopsy. The researchers determined that Thermography offers a safe, noninvasive procedure that would be valuable as an adjunct to mammography in determining whether a lesion is benign or malignant with a 99% predictive value.

    Gros, C, Gautherie, M. Breast Thermography and Cancer Risk Prediction. Cancer 45:51-56 1980 From a patient base of 58,000 women screened with thermography, researchers followed 1,527 patients with initially healthy breasts and abnormal thermograms for 12 years. Of this group, 40% developed malignancies within 5 years. The study concluded that "an abnormal thermogram is the single most important marker of high risk for the future development of breast cancer"

    Spitalier, H., Giraud, D. et al. Does Infrared Thermography Truly Have a Role in Present Day Breast Cancer Management? Biomedical Thermology pp.269-278, 1982
    Spitalier and associates screened 61,000 women using thermography over a 10 year period. The false negative and positive rate was found to be 11% (89% sensitivity and specificity). 91% of the nonpalpable cancers (T0 rating) were detected by thermography. Of all the patients with cancer, thermography alone was the first alarm in 60% of cases. The authors noted "in patients having no clinical or radiographic suspicion of malignancy, a persistent abnormal breast thermogram represents the highest known risk factor for the future development of breast cancer"

    Jiang LJ, Ng FY et al A Perspective on Medical Infrared Imaging. J Med Technol 2005 Nov-Dec;29(6):257-67 Since the early days of thermography in the 1950s, image processing techniques, sensitivity of thermal sensors and spatial resolution have progressed greatly, holding out fresh promise for infrared (IR) imaging techniques. Applications in civil, industrial and healthcare fields are thus reaching a high level of technical performance. In many diseases there are variations in blood flow, and these in turn affect the skin temperature. IR imaging offers a useful and non-invasive approach to the diagnosis and treatment (as therapeutic aids) of many disorders, in particular in the areas of rheumatology, dermatology, orthopaedics and circulatory abnormalities. This paper reviews many usages (and hence the limitations) of thermography in biomedical fields.

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited November 2009

    This debate goes to show how complicated disease (any disease) can be. Many doctors and scientists do have their doubts on thermography. Unfortunately for us, the current mammogram uproar proves once more how difficult it is for us, patients, to determine what is dependable, and what is not. Both systems seem to have their drawbacks at this time. Mammograms do see some tumors (not all, unfortunately). However, does that warrant putting everybody on yearly mammo radiations (or even every 2 years)?

    And by the way, I went for mammos every single year for 10 years without failing. And it never saw my 3 cms IDC coming.

    And I just noticed where Springtime is saying that she had mammos for 15 years, and it never showed up! We are not alone in that situation. In fact, several of my support group members have reported that their tumors were felt by their doctors, not by mammo.

    It couldn't be that we ALL have chosen crapy, sub-standard facilities? Smile

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