Don't we deserve diagnostic follow up?
I'm really struggling with this don't look treatment philosophy. Has anyone else been told that the Oncology World is no longer "looking" for recurrance or metastatic disease, especially for those of us with HER2+++ cancer? We've heard all thru treatment that we have an aggressive tumor / cancer. Now I'm being told you're finishing your treatment, but we no longer do routine diagnostic testing ie: CT Scan, MRI, Pet scans or CA tumor marker bloodwork to look for early signs of metastatic disease. The ''standard of care" is now to only treat that which becomes symptomatic. So, I'm hearing -- let it grow until it hurts, causes shortness of breath (SOB), chronic cough, or visual disturbances.... I just don't understand. We have gone through so much to beat this cancer now I feel as though they're throwing the towel in to see what happens....
Looking for help or clarification of what I think I'm hearing....
Please help -- ps -- I'm only 43 y/o -- not ready to throw in the towel....
Joannem65
Comments
-
Joanne:There are very different opinions on this issue...but know that there are some real down sides to "routine" scanning (besides cost and radiation exposure) False positives are common. They are hugely traumatic, and can lead to unneeded biopsies and even surgeries. That was my experience anyway. I am stage 3, her pos, high risk and I will never have a scan again, unless I have symptoms. I'm 41/2 years out, by the way. Doing well.I know other women feel differently -- so maybe they can post and help you clarify.Annanne
-
I'm only 32....but I am completely ok with the idea of no scans unless a symptome arises. When I had my first mammo on my healthy breast last year..I was a wreck! The techs had to take me to the back door. The anxiety that comes with scans ect are tooo much for me.
Like Annanne said, the false positives are common too. I know others wh o feel like you will come shortly, I guess I'm a minority..lol
Be well.
-
In addition to the arguments against scans stated by Annaanne and lexislove, there is also the fact that studies have not shown that they improve survival.
-
I just happen to see this in the active topics and I hope I can give you a little reassurance on this. I have mets to my bones and I had found the disease on my own. The oncs don't like to run annual or semi annual scans for numerous reasons. Your body has been thru alot during your initial run with breast cancer. Exposing your body to more radiation is not a good thing and that in itself can increase your risks of developing more cancer in your body. Most people that get dx with mets tend to find the disease on their own from symptoms of the disease. The norm is usually bloodwork to watch for any cancer activity that may be going on in your body but that isn't reliable either. PET scan are notorious for false positives so why put yourself thru the anxiety of scans. Even without the false positives, every time you have a scan it will throw the cancer in your face and interupt your life.
It is better to get back on with your life and try to get past the cancer world. Don't live your life waiting for the cancer to return. The stats show that most people take care of the initial cancer and you will nevere see it again in your life. Wouldn't you rather just live your life and turn the page on this awful chapter in your life.
I was dx initially at age 36 and my mets were found at age 43. I had 8 glorious years before cancer darkened my door again. When I had my first round of cancer the internet was not in every household yet and was expensive to have monthly memberships for. Needless to say there wasn't sites like this then either. I had no clue that there was such a thing as mets or to watch for this disease could do what it is doing to my body now. Personally I am glad I had those 8 glorious years not knowing anything about mets. My life would have been miserable if I would have been at the oncs office constantly just waiting for cancer to return. You just have to have confidence in your onc that he will pick up on something if it is happening to you. Also if you do become symptomatic your onc should order scans for you.
I know this isn't the answer that you want but that is how this game works and I agree with it.
-
Someone on these boards used a "once the horse is out of the barn" analogy to explain the way doctors see this. If it comes back, they'll give it drugs and you'll either respond or not. It doesn't matter so much when you find out that it's back.
But I'm with Joannem65 on not really liking this approach. I'm 40 and have a young son, so naturally I want to stay alive as long as possible to raise him. I also heard that I have an aggessive cancer and that they'll want to watch me closely, but I don't feel watched. One of my concerns is I'm basically super-healthy; I think it would be possible for a recurrence to get really, really (possibly too) far along before I started showing symptoms or recognized them as such.
I came to the realization here recently that I had to find my cancer the first time because no one else was looking for it, and I'm most likely going to have to do it again if it ever comes back--so I just hope it never comes back.
Sorry that doesn't sound very helpful or hopeful, but I think this really is a big and controversial issue (at least in terms of how survivors view it) once treatment ends.
-
Joanne,
I agree with what has been said above about the merits of scans, but I also hear what you are saying about not wanting to "throw in the towel."
There's a physician/author who felt the same way you do and set out to learn what he could about lifestyle changes he could make to reduce the risk of recurrence. He combed the medical literature and compiled what he learned into a book, Anticancer: A New Way of Life. The author is David Servan-Schreiber.
I think the positive steps Servan-Schrieber describes in his book (including diet, exercise, stress management) are helpful whether or not the cancer comes back and the exercise especially helps reduce anxiety so you can get on with your life.
Good luck, Joanne. I hope you never meet mets, but even if you eventually do, there is still a lot of fighting that can be done. May you live long and well.
Anne
-
After finishing all my treatments, My onco said "No scans"
He just wanted me to go for cancer tumor marker every 3 months the first 2 years, and every 4 months after 2 years, currently i am still on the same schedule until April 1st which will be 5 years from the DX date. Then I only go once a year. The only tests i had the last 4 years was Bone density test twice because I am on Femara.
Again each oncologist have different views depending the type of cancer you had.
Good luck
Sheila
-
Hi ladies -- Thank you for explaining this to me. I'll really work on trying to understand it. It does make sence on one hand - limiting radiation exposure (I'm an xray tech....) limiting cost and reducing the anxiety that comes with each exam. However, it's hard to think (or not to think) about facing mortality -- if you get a recurrance it's treatable - never curable. That's what I'm having a hard time getting my head around. So, what I'll learn from all of you is to enjoy every minute and try not to focus on the "what if's" and I'm stonger than what I thought for getting this far. God forbid, if something comes up in the future -- I'll find out I'm stronger yet, that what I am now.
For now I'll include all of you in my prayers, that I may one day be as positive and strong as each of you are!
God Bless & Hugs to each of you --
Joannem65
-
I don't know where you live, but in Canada it is the same for stage III girls. At first I was not happy about that but I have since come to like the approach. If I have ANY type of symptom or concern, and I have, my doc will order the appropriate test to find out if it really is a cancer issue or just to put my mind at ease. So far my mind has been put at ease.
On the other hand, my friend who was dx just before me as Stage II, had regular scans and checks. She was also in a study so she was being watched closely. Two months after clear tests, she presented with symptoms and mets were discovered. She was tx for that and given the all clear. A few months later, she had more symptoms and again a new mets was discovered. All of this happened between the time being declared NED and the months preceding what would have been her next 'routine' scan.
-
My onc doesn't do scans routinely either......makes em nervous but she is supposed to be one of the best in the States so I have faith in her.......She once told me she would not let any mets get too far before diagnosing them so I guess she knows what she is doing......I think the world of her....Oh and the funny thing about her is she looks and sounds just like Martha Stewart!...I kid you not!......And she is s weet heart too....She takes as much time as you need to discuss things with you.......
-
I don't know where you live, but in Canada it is the same for stage III girls. At first I was not happy about that but I have since come to like the approach. If I have ANY type of symptom or concern, and I have, my doc will order the appropriate test to find out if it really is a cancer issue or just to put my mind at ease. So far my mind has been put at ease.
On the other hand, my friend who was dx just before me as Stage II, had regular scans and checks. She was also in a study so she was being watched closely. Two months after clear tests, she presented with symptoms and mets were discovered. She was tx for that and given the all clear. A few months later, she had more symptoms and again a new mets was discovered. All of this happened between the time being declared NED and the months preceding what would have been her next 'routine' scan.
I am one of those whose mammo and ultra sound said one tumour around 1.4cm. When it was all done, my breast was full of tumours of various sizes. The diagnostic tests are obviously extremely helpful and important, but they can be misleading.
-
There has to come a stage when those who have been treated succesfully can attempt to move on and try to live life as normally as possible. Routine testing can't be practical, for the reasons already explained-nor desirable for many. By the nature of it, those who would want closer follow ups are going to be worriers by nature (or they'd try to put their illness in the past, until/if there was cause for further concern!) The systems are stretched and over worked. We often read posts about people getting anxious as they have to wait several weeks for screening-imagine how much worse it would be if everyone who had had cancer had routine testing too?
Joanne, if your real dilemna is accepting that if you get a recurrence it will be terminal-that's a slightly different issue. Sadly, metastatic cancer is terminal,and no amount of testing is going to stop it happening. Even if found early, the consequences will still be devastating. Perhaps if you work to seperate out these two issues-try not to focus on the disease returning. Live your life as best you can. If it does return, and you have continued in the intervening years to stress and worry, then you'll have nothing but regrets for wasting the "good" years when you were healthy and could have been enjoying life. Good luck,x
-
Hi Joanne,
I have also been told many of the things the other posters have said - that scanning has its own risks, including false positives and that "catching it early" doesn't improve survival in metastatic BC like it does in earlier stages. However, my mom has been dealing with side effects from a met to her sacrum that continue to affect her QOL and she feels that if she had been receiving scans regularly, this could have been avoided. She has what might be permanent numbness throughout her groin area, which definitely impacts her bladder function and her ability to enjoy sex. This is just an example of how scanning might not impact survival, but it can definitely impact QOL. If we had found this sooner, she might not be having to deal with this. I try not to live in the "what if" world, but perhaps someone else can avoid this issue that my mom is facing now. My mom is doing well otherwise. She is 5 yrs from her original Dx and 1 yr out from her Dx of MBC. I wish you the best of luck and hope you can find supportive people who will help you get the scans you want. BC can make you feel so powerless, we should be able to take some control over our follow-up care.
-
Joannem65, I feel the same way you do...and since I was dx with bc over 3 yrs ago I've seen this discussed several times and some rather not have scans due to the anxiety it causes. But my way of thinking is I RATHER know if I have a recurrance...and the sooner the better IMO. To me its like walking into a house and you have a SMALL stove fire...do you wait to call the fire dept after it spreads to the roof. (No...the sooner you put water on it the better your chances are that you'll save the house.)
What this boils down to in my opinion is its all about "Profit over Patient". Scans are expensive...so they don't want to order them unless they absolutely have too. I've been with my primary doctor for 30 yrs and he admits to me how things are for doctors these days. (Insurance companies get inbetween the doctor/patient relationship.) With HMO's lots of doctors get in trouble for ordering too many scans...some times they are threatened they will be fired if they don't keep them down. So some doctors are willing to take chances with YOUR life that the symptoms your complaining about are NOT a recurrances.
I've been concerned about my lungs since last November but CAN'T get any of my doctors to order a scan and I have been scared to death. The anxiety this has caused me is in excusable. I would NOT want a PET/CT scan unless I REALLY felt it was necessary...and right now I need one. I realized lots of woman rather not deal with the scan anxiety...or possible false positives...and that I DO totally understand. But speaking only for me...I personally feel better when I have a scan and get the all clear...especially when I'm having symptoms. (Its all about saving money.) JMHO
I feel just like you...we go thur heck and back to beat cancers butt...then they send us on our way...its just not right.
Chelee
-
If I have any concerns about possible symptoms my doctor orders the necessary test without hesitation. So it really isn't a matter of cost for me. It is the routine annual tests that they don't do on us Stage III girls here. That to me is a very different issue. As I stated earlier, you can have a regular routine test that is clear and then present with symptoms a couple of months later.
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team