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elizzim
elizzim Member Posts: 146
edited September 2014 in Breast Reconstruction

Hi Ladies,

I'm about 3 weeks out from my exchange surgery. I've got the Allergan 410 gummies, 500 cc's. I had a bilateral, nipple-sparing mastectomy, so I still have my own nipples.

I'm really struggling with how firm these new puppies are, and the fact that because the skin is so thin, I can feel the bumps on the outside of the implant right through my skin in places! They also look OK visually on the bottom half, but the upper pole is very full, and looks fake to me.

Most of all, (even though I realize that this is cosmetic, not health related!) I miss the squishy feeling of real breasts that move when I move. I find myself staring at other women's breasts as I walk through the world, which is a bit comical. My new breasts feel so firm that in terms of feel, they bear very little resemblance to real breasts. Does anyone else have experience with these Gummy implants, and does any of this change over time?

I'm single, and I hope to date again one day. It really concerns me that these implants may look ok in clothes, but they don't feel like real breasts. They're very firm, and I can't help but wonder how they would feel to a new partner. Should I consider getting a revision, and getting a silicone gel implant instead? How would the shape change from these gummies? And lastly, for those of you who have exchanged your implants, is the 2nd exchange surgery as involved as the 1st, with drains al overl again??

Thanks for listening!

-Liz 

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Comments

  • Farrah
    Farrah Member Posts: 566
    edited July 2009

    Hi Liz,

    I've had Mentor 350cc gummies for one year now. I have to say mine are still just as firm too and it's the one thing I don't like about them. They look great in clothes, have no visible ripples and I've got fabulous cleavage but there is zero movement or 'jiggle' in these babies. I have come to terms with this and overall I think the benefits outweigh the one negative but I can totally understand where you are coming from. If I could 'have it all' I would but I'm not sure if this is possible. I wouldn't want to have something softer only to experience rippling. I think if you have thin skin over the implants, the risk of visible rippling is greater. Also you may have less fullness in the upper pole because the gel in softer implants tends to shift more with gravity ( but you said you have too much upper pole fullness so this may not be an advantage for you )

    I imagine most surgeons would want to wait and see if they 'settle' and soften with time but I have to tell you that mine haven't changed. I would talk about it with your surgeon. Did he tell you about the firmness prior to the surgery? Actually mine didn't tell me about the firmness but I figured that because I told him I wanted an 'athletic' looking chest (as opposed to buxom!) he probably figured I wouldn't mind the buff look and feel :-)

    Have a talk with your surgeon, I'd be interested to hear what happens. Best of luck to you. Farrah 

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Thank you so much for sharing your experience, Farrah. I have actually seen your photos on the other website, and I think you look great! It's amazing to me now that while I love my surgeon, and I know he's great, he did not talk much about the firmness. I have this strange feeling that I'm asking too much when I have any complaints - as though I'm lucky to have breasts at all. And it's true, there is no such thing as perfection under these circumstances. But when there is the hope of entering into a totally new sexual relationship one day (to be perfectly blunt), you kind of want your breasts to feel like...well....breasts! I'm sort of kicking myself for just trusting the recommendation of my surgeon without really analyzing the differences between different silicone implants. The problem is, short of touching the breasts of other women who've been through all this, how can you know what your final result is going to be? Even now, if I consider revision, I wonder about the risk of liking my new (softer gel) implants less than I like my gummies. It's all a bit overwhleming, and then I think about the fact that this is all just aethetics - not questions of health. And I question myself for worrying about this issue at all.

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited July 2009

    Liz, I don't have gummies but have the 'lesser cohesive gel' silicone implants.  I have one side reconstructed and one side augmented.  My breasts are firmer than the original equipment but not hard or immovable.  They have a bit of jiggle to them and if you were to grab both of my boobs, you couldn't tell the difference between my good side and my reconstructed side.  They fall together naturally if I lay on my side.  The slope on my recon side is good.  I can show cleavage and the sides look the same.  I do have some rippling when I lean over without a bra but in a bra, I have none.  My rippling seems to occur where my tumors were removed.  I assume that my skin may be thinner in those two areas.  Best wishes

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Rubytuesday- Could you please explain to me what "lesser cohesive gel" means? Are they the implants that are firmer than the liquid gel, but not as firm as the gummies? I'm trying to understand the difference between yours and mine, the Allergan gummy 410's. Yours sound great - like a perfect compromise between the good visual shape of the gummies, and the softness of the old silicone gel. I wonder, if the slope is good with yours, why are the gummies considered better when they are so hard?

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited July 2009

    Liz, Yes mine are not gummies but have cohesive gel in them (read as: not runny like the old sils).  I saw one cut in half in my PS's office and when you push on the implant, the gel starts to come out of the shell but when the pressure is off, it 'sucks' back into the shell.  (NOW THERE'S a VISUAL....LOL).  The gummies are firmer and more cohesive.  Some PSs believe that the anatomical/contoured implant is better for reconstruction. My PS wouldn't use them because of the possibility of them turning.  The round implants take on a sort of anatomical/contoured shape due to gravity but if they turn, no harm done.  Best wishes

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Thanks again, rubytuesday. Could you please tell me the exact make and model # of your implants? I'd like to ask my PS about them. Thanks!

  • rubytuesday
    rubytuesday Member Posts: 2,248
    edited July 2009

    I have Inamed (now called Natrelle) midrange, round, smooth silicone gel (style 15) on my reconstructed side. They are comparable to Mentor's moderate plus line.  Best wishes

  • karen9516
    karen9516 Member Posts: 155
    edited July 2009

    elizzim, I had a bilat proph nipple sparing in nov 08 and an exchange on march 09. I didnt think there was any swelling at all but here and now, 4 months later, there def was. My upper pole was very full and has settled allot. You will be surprised how much they will change.

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Thanks, Karen. That's so good to hear! Can I ask you what kind of implants you have? My understanding is that gummies change a lot less over time than traditional silicone gel implants.

    Also, can anyone give me a male perspective on how these gummies feel? I hate to be so graphic about it, but I'm wondering if they are perceived as 'breast-like" by men in a sexual context. 

  • Mocity
    Mocity Member Posts: 451
    edited July 2009

    Liz,

    I had a bilateral mastectomy as well and had the Allergan 410's (Gummies) put in on 4/2/09.  I too am struggling a bit.  My surgeon is a wonderful one and all in all I look natural.  Everyone at his office can't believe how great it looks.  I keep wondering if perhaps I had built this up in my head to think I would look wonderful in the end.  :-)  I kept thinking... well, at least I will have fabulous perky foobs at the end of this.  Now, I am stuggling with the firmness of them.  I miss having the softer "real" boobs that you can move around to look good in shirts.  Does that sound strange.  Anyway, I had nipples done yesterday so I still have them bandaged up.  I am praying that looks good.  I keep reminding myself that I am happy those boobs are gone and I am cancer free.  I am thankful for this but I understand where you are coming from.  I think it might be a matter of getting use to a new "normal".  Good luck to you!

  • SaraJane
    SaraJane Member Posts: 75
    edited July 2009

    HI Liz, 

       I have brand new (as of last Friday!) Mentor High Profile Cohesive Silicone Gel 500cc Implants and so far all I can say is WOW!  I'm very surprised (as is my husband) at how much more 'breastlike' they are than we thought they'd be (both in appearance and tactile regards).  

      I was shown three types of implants at my PS office (though she was no longer using the Gummies as she had problems with them 'turning' in her trial patients and decided to opt out of the trial).  Here's my thoughts on the 'feeling' when touching the implants themselves in the office:

    Saline : Feels like a water balloon.  Filling is easily displaced by touch and does not react like human tissue.

    Cohesive Silicone: Feels like one of those Gel filled, keyboard wrist rests.  Soft and squishy to the touch yet has some resistance to it, making it feel somewhat like human tissue.

     Gummies: Feels like one of those hand exercisers that's thin rubber, filled with tiny sand.  (not that it feels like sand per say... but is more rigid to the touch), takes more pressure to give and feels more like a flexible solid than human tissue.

       These are just my opinions and so far (other than my current worries of my left implant migrating South :( ?  I'm happy with my decision to go with the Cohesive Gels... 

       Hope this is of some help to you!

      Lisa  

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Hi CristiC and Lisa,

    What both of you said was so helpful to me. Lisa, I feel so silly that I didn't research my choices more, but just went with the gummies. They have positive attributes for sure, but they don't feel at all like breasts. I'm coming to the conclusion that the cohesive gels are the best of all possible worlds. How is the shape of yours, Lisa? Is it natural, and is there a gradual slope on top?

    CristiC, Everything you said makes a lot of sense. Yes, the primary thing is that the cancerous breasts are gone, and it feels a little strange to be preoccupied with cosmetics under these circumstances. But I just keep imagining dating someone, and becoming serious and having him touch me and recoil! I know that the right person would never react this way, but I'm so worried that these gummies will just feel weird and off-putting to any man. May I ask you what your experience has been with your husband? 

  • SaraJane
    SaraJane Member Posts: 75
    edited July 2009

    Liz, check your Private Messages here... 

     I'll be back in a while :)

    Lisa  

  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited July 2009

    wow, am I happy to see this thread. Liz, I have the same feeling about what I´ve taken to referring as the "tennis ball" I had put in after nipple-sparing R-mx in March of this year.  It is a Becker implant --silicone shell with a cavity inside for saline expansion. One step, no exchange surgery. That "one step" was what sold me on it, that and the fact that all the breast surgeons I saw here in Brazil seem to prefer them. When my PS pumped it up to be the same size as my other breast it was hard as a rock and just as immobile. So I asked her to let some saline out...it did get softer but now it feels sort of like a water balloon (a bit more resistant actually, maybe more like a water bed) and it is still immobile. I also can feel bumps on the implant surface through my skin and when I look in the mirror I can see them too. They look just like whitehead pimples... how attractive, LOL!

    So last week I decided to have another implant put in when I have surgery for a lift on the other side. I want to make this step very carefully so I am also looking for input on the different materials, their texture and their "jigglability"! Ruby I think I want what you have. I LOVE the idea of lying on my side and having the upper one lean down a bit. Right now what happens is that the foob stays in exactly the same place, height-wise but the inner side (which become the bottom when I´m on my side) fills out, leaving the outer side (the top when I´m on my side) looking like a ball without air.

    I am a little concerned that having another surgery will leave me with a more noticeable scar but I´m going to risk it. My first incision healed very well so hopefully this one will too.

    Lisa

  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited July 2009

    I'm 4 months out from my exchange, and my gummy (cancer) side remains fairly immovable.  It's hard to describe, but it's like a hard tennis ball, with essentially no give.  The other side, which has a regular silicone implant which was put in for symmetry only, feels fine.  I'm not sure if I'm going to change the gummy out;  the two sides look pretty even with my clothes on, and my husband would definitely not support my going under the knife again for "cosmetic" reasons.  I'm kind of thinking I won't tempt fate and just keep the gummy.  If I happen to get cancer on the other side and end up having surgery again, then I'll think of changing the gummy (I know, I know, that's pessimistic thinking, so I'll be positive and assume it won't happen...).

  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited July 2009

    Forgot to say-- I am single too. I´d like to think I wont stay that way forever, but the "female genital mutilation" school of cancer treatment is making the future seem pretty bleak. I´ve just started lupron injections, so I´ve been plunged into menopause, and Arimidex is making mincemeat of whatever itsy bitsy estrogen supply was left. My libido has taken a predictable nosedive...and the prozac I take to help deal with all that is the icing on the cake. I believe it may have been Mena, who started the now-famous Mojo thread a few yerars back, who once joked that her cervix being the only reproductive organ she had left, she was going to have it gilded.

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Oh, Lisa, I feel for you. And I'm struggling with similar thing. It seems like the woman I used to feel myself to be is fragmented now, at best. But deep in my heart I truly believe that with the right person, the love will transcend these things. And the inverse is true, too: if the love does not transcend these things, he/she wasn't the right person. What we've been through will be a great screening tool - but perhaps not so great if you're looking for more casual encounters. 

    The weirdest effect on me sexually (and I have no sexual life at the moment, so I"m hypothesizing a bit) is that I feel like I exist sexually from the waist down and the shoulders up, but I've got no sensation in between. I don't feel like a whole anymore - it's as though I just don't exist in the middle, and I've lost that wholeness that is our erotic response. Very hard to describe.

    Digger - I think it means a lot that your husband wouldn't want you to undertake more surgery just for cosmetic reasons. That's wonderful, that he is truly fine with it. Says a lot about him. 

  • digger
    digger Member Posts: 590
    edited July 2009

    Liz,

    Your statement of not feeling like you exist in the "middle" portion of your body totally describes where I am now as well.  I never really thought of it that way, but I definitely have that disconnect with my chest as well.  When I look in the mirror, I don't recognize the middle part of me, it's like a different person is occupying me.

    I wonder if that "disconnect" ever goes away as one gets used to these foreign bodies, i.e. implants?  I imagine some of it does have to do with that numb feeling.  At least once a day, I bump into something with this gummy, either the kitchen table while I'm sitting there, the refrigerator door, etc.  I'm just not used to something sticking out like that (I also went from a small A to a full C, so that takes a lot of getting used to as well). 

  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited July 2009

    I agree, the foob does not register in my sense of self as a breast, even though my nipple is still there. It´s like a foreign object when I look at it and even more when I bump into things. It´s as though it were my purse bumping into something. I feel pressure against my torso but there is no sensation in my skin (or breast tissue). This is one of the reasons I am more and more convinced I want to downsize the foob, even if it also means getting a reduction on the other side for symmetry´s sake. I used to be 35B but a small A is what I want now. I figure, the smaller it is, the less I will bump into things.

    Liz, re: psychological adjustments--I was traumatized for a while even after the lumpectomy but eventually adjusted to that. Are you doing tamoxifen? it also had an effect on me sexually but once that period was over things were much better. Then I switched from prozac to Wellbutrin for a while and this was even better for my libido. But recently when I got the recurrence/mets dx and had the mastectomy I went back to prozac as it seems to work better for me in creating a buffer zone between me and bad news.

  • aoandrews43
    aoandrews43 Member Posts: 68
    edited July 2009

    I had the Mentor anatomical gummies put in almost 2 weeks ago (part of a clinical trial). I agree that they are more firm than I expected, so not sure I'm happy with that. My question though for those of you who've had either anatomical or gummy implants, is did they change at all over the next 4 months, and did you get any smaller from the swelling going down? I feel like mine look just a bit too large ( they are 585ccs), although they look fine on my current body (I'm trying to lose some weight--about 15-20 pounds as I'm currently 5'5" and ~155lbs and want them to still look proportional if I manage to do that).  I did have some lipo on each side, so I'm hoping that there is swelling there that will go down and make them a bit smaller after that subsides--since much of the 'largeness' seems to be in the width (and a bit too large in front as well).

    Thanks

  • Farrah
    Farrah Member Posts: 566
    edited July 2009

    Hi aoandrews,

    I have the Mentor gummies (exactly one year ago - how time flies!) Mine didn't get smaller - they stayed the same - but I really didn't have much swelling at all after the exchange, so maybe that's why. Mine are also quite small at 350cc but that makes me a 34D and I'm 5'4" and about 130# 

  • lovemyself
    lovemyself Member Posts: 29
    edited July 2009

    Hi Aoandrews,

    Mine are Allergan 410 gummies. I had the exchange in March. There was no swelling after the surgery (might be a tiny bit) and the implants haven't changed shape at all. The good thing is: I don't need to wait for fluffing. They are in anatomical shape and stay that shape once it is in my chest. They are not supposed to move or rotate at all if the surgeon does it right. I am pretty all set after the procedure. They are firm though but I am quite used to it.

  • aoandrews43
    aoandrews43 Member Posts: 68
    edited July 2009

    Thanks Farrah and lovemyself--I guess I won't expect them to change much (although I do hope some of the 'width' is from the lipo bruising still - I can feel that it is still somewhat bruised). I'm actually glad the anatomical ones don't "fluff" since I wouldn't want them to 'drop' at all. I definitely don't have the 'hamburger bun' look I had with the expanders--they look like normal breasts in clothes and not too bad without (although I have a flap of skin at the bottom of my breast --a "dog ear"? on one side -- I'm hoping when I speak with her she'll be able to tell me if it will go away or she can revise it later).

     My first follow up with my ps is in 2 weeks, so I'll wait to see what she says. I'm just kicking myself because for some reason, while I got tons of information and made careful decisions about surgery and chemo, I basically just told my ps to go with what she recommended for the final implant. So I'm ending up a little bigger than I would have liked. In all honesty though, I think it looks pretty good and I shouldn't complain (I was really large before and wanted to be smaller- which I am).  

    Thanks

  • vision4utoo
    vision4utoo Member Posts: 138
    edited July 2009

    I have chose gels too! Those Gummies just wouldn't give...in hand held testing.  My exchange will be Aug 20th

    Be well ladies!

  • missde3
    missde3 Member Posts: 241
    edited July 2009

    Hi girls - I'm still with the TE's and will prolly have my exchange in sept or oct.  Haven't discussed implants yet with my PS.  I didn't know there was an 'inbetween' implant.  Thanx for the info.  Now I can make a more informed decision.  One question - anyone have too wide cleavage?  Or the TE's sorta pushing into the armpit?  I was a 36D before and I'm so confused as to know when I'm done with my size since my old bras don't conform to TE's.  I had a BLM May 6th.  Thanx!

  • karen9516
    karen9516 Member Posts: 155
    edited July 2009

    Liz I have the cohesive gel allergan style 20 600cc implants and I love them. They look and feel like my breasts did before all of this but bigger and better. I don't think I could be happier but I think we always think we could no matter what we have we can find something wrong with the way we look. Over all I think the cohesive gel is the best for reconstruction from what everyone on here says.

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Thanks so much, Karen, for that specific info. It's going to help me a lot when I go and talk to my PS on Monday, about the fact that I'm leaning toward replacing these gummies with something softer (and less lumpy!). All of you have helped me feel conviction about that decision, and I think I would've felt miserable and "stuck" without your help!

    It amazes me now that I just took my PS's word for it that the gummies would be best for me. When I briefly felt the implant in his office, I noticed that it was unnaturally firm, but paid little attention to my own observation. Because I know so little about reconstruction post-mastectomy (or any cosmetic surgery for that matter), I trusted naively that if he says they'll be great, and if they're considered an 'improvement" their predecessors (ie traditional silicone gel implants), they MUST feel like breasts once their in. Why did no one talk openly about how "un-breastlike" they feel? 

  • Emma8
    Emma8 Member Posts: 22
    edited July 2009

    Dear elizzim,

     I have a great deal of sympathy for you being in a situation you hope to improve.  I had bilateral skin and areola sparing mastectomies in Dec and then had TE's exchanged for Natrelle gel hi profile implants 450cc.  I had been a 32D and asked to be a 32C but ended up a very wide, under the armpits 32E!  Yes in time they dropped , but they were still huge for my 5' frame, 103 lbs.  My husband's tactful response was- "how could he have done that to you?" I too felt that expressing my dissatisfaction with my PS was very stressfull.  After all he was always telling me how good he was at this.  The thing is, he never spent enough time with me truly ascertaining how I wanted to look.  He seemed to want me to leave the decision making in his experienced hands.  I also felt a vibe coming from him that I was lucky to have prophylactic mastectomies and how could I complain with a waiting room filled with patient going through more grueling treatments than me.  It really upset me to feel this way since I myself am a doctor, a psychiatrist no less.  I suppose I almost felt I had to manage the ps personality.  With the encouragement of some of my most assertive friends, I persisted in the nicest way possible to explain to my doctor that although these breasts would be magnificent on a much larger woman, I feel very out of proportion.  After several rounds of these discussions, where each time he would wonder if I had grown comfortable with huge breast and I would persist with"no" he finally agreed and said he wanted me to be happy. 

    I had my implants exchanged last week from 450cc hi profile silicone to 340cc mid profile silicone and I am so much happier even though I had to have the pockets sewn down, over 100 stitches to make a smaller pocket.  This has been a physically very painful week, but rewarding.

    Elizzim- if you are unhappy and a change would not put your health at risk- go for it!  We've been through too much not to be reasonably happy at the end.  I think it is easy to slip into a state of acceptance despite being unhappy towards the end of this journey.  It is long, exhausting and depleting. Muster up your courage and strength to ask for what you need.  Our breasts will never be perfect to the touch or completely scarless, but we deserve the absolute best that science can offer us. I am married but like you am hoping to one day have a normal sex life where fake breasts are just not really noticed.  What I will say, as a shrink,is the fact that we want to look our best and feel our best and look forward to romance in the future, means we are not falling into depression but rather hopeful and optimistic and just wanting to optimize our possibilities.

    You have my support,

    Emma8

  • elizzim
    elizzim Member Posts: 146
    edited July 2009

    Emma8 - Your words meant so much to me. It's very interesting to hear about the dynamic/interaction between patient and PS from a psychiatrist's perspective, meaning when the patient is also a psychiatrist. I feel that I'm pretty insightful about human interaction in general, but my objectivity goes right out the window when I'm the patient trying to advocate for myself with my PS. I'm so frustrated by this - it's as though I become an empty-headed little girl, which I would never have predicted I'd do! But even you, with all your knowledge and training, are struggling with this!

    I can't believe that you ended up a 32E after your exchange. WOW! And your PS was seemingly incapable of acknowledging that you ended up larger than you had wanted. At least in the end, he communicated clearly that he wanted you to be happy. I would be very happy to hear those words from my own PS tomorrow.

    I wonder - is there something in medical training - or cosmetic surgery training, more specifically - that has a tendency to create arrogance in physicians? Or is it just a random personality trait? It seems to be more the rule than the exception from the stories I've read on these boards. I actually think that my surgeon is just constantly moving from patient to patient, focusing largely on the surgical process, and little if at all on the experiences (surgical or emotional) of his patients. But I have a family full of really bright physicians, and both they and I believe that attending to the patient - the patient as a human being and not just a "body" - is pretty central to the practice of medicine. Especially this sub-specialty of medicine, in light of what we as patients have been through!

    As I write all this, I am feeling almost guilty for focusing on the cosmetic dimension of this experience, when we'd all feel fortunate just to be here and be healthy! 

  • aoandrews43
    aoandrews43 Member Posts: 68
    edited July 2009

    Emma8

    Did your insurance company cover the cost of having the smaller implants replace the larger ones? I'm also concerned that my implants are too big since I wanted to be no larger than a C (I got 585 cc anatomical gummies - I'm bigger, so I think my frame looks okay with them, but still larger than a C for sure and really larger than I wanted). I'm still giving mine time since its only been 2 weeks and they may turn out just fine (I had some lipo on the sides and there still is swelling). But I was wondering how insurance handles these types of surgeries.
    Thanks,

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