GMOs anyone?

barbe1958 · June 2009

Why aren't hybrid cars cheaper to buy? It would solve a lot of the oil issues world wide if we ran electric cars....

London-Virginia · June 2009

what do we do to produce the electric though? I heard a documentary recently that pointed out what a huge extra amount of electric we will need to run electric/hybrid cars. How? nuclear energy? coal fired? (big argument about both here at the mo. coal fired = polution. nuclear. What about terrorists.) And I agree - here , even a second hand Prius (which I have to say is one of the dullest cars on earth) is pretty expensive.

It is a complex world!! AAARGH I need more brains!

havehope · June 2009

How about solar energy to run the electric car? or wind?

London-Virginia · June 2009

solar problematical in northern europe - insufficient sun. (in terms of creating largescale power that is) Wind power somewhat inconsistent. Also, wind farms controversial as not always wanted in areas of outstanding natural beauty. However, in the wider or even more domesticated sense, can help save on ebergy for instance for domestic hot water. All over greece, people have fairly small cylinders on their rooves to provide hot water - it works really well.

In England, we have a very old housing stock which is poorly insulated. So it does "waste" energy. Insufficient encouragement from government to insulate houses better - no tax breaks or the like for people upgrading homes.

New build homes still do not have sufficient insulation.

The one technology that I really wish we would use in new developments, is the form of heating where large coils are buried in the ground, producing energy from the natural heat of the earth. Transformers then convert this into energy for the home. It is completely tried and tsted (invented I believe in the 1930s). It seems to me that house builders could install this quite easilly as they are already clearing a big building site. Free heat forever!

We waste far too much energy on street lights left on all night and that sort of things , and in office buildings. Want to do something useful? PESTER ALL YOUR FRIENDS TO ALWAYS TURN OFF THE LIGHTS WHEN THEY LEAVE THEIR OFFICE OR PLACE OF WORK. Also, perhaps if you can when you leave the bathroom at work. We all know how to turn the lights back on again don't we!

pip57 · June 2009

Haven't you heard? There are reports of people living near windmill farms having problem that have been linked to the noise and vibrations from the turbines.

barbe1958 · June 2009

Thermo energy to heat houses is a good idea, but it still needs electricity to run the transformer. My neighbour has it. It cost a lot more though his gas bills are lower than mine, his electricity is higher!

Why don't we all just stay at home and grow our own vegetables and home-school our kids and marry our cousins Wink Wouldn't that be so much easier? Laughing

My DIL did a study at a wind farm in regards to local birds. A lot of them get killed by the turbines...they are quiet to run, but the vibration issue would be a concern.

I saw a HUGE windfarm field in Washington state last year that just took my breath away. It was beautiful, yet surreal.

London-Virginia · June 2009

Tell you what Barbe, you can marry my cousin if you want, I really couldn't . Have you got a spare cousin at all?

Windfarms are surreal aren't they? In a weird sense they sort of remind me of the Bowie film "The Man who fell to earth". Can't say why.

Simvog - sorry - didn't mean to sound dismissive. At a meta level, I think it is good to try to use anything alternative we can. Right now of course, a lot of things are pricey. I guess we need to try do things at a domestic level, then at bigger levels. Cutting back waste though, doesn't cost us anything.

courtney22 · June 2009

The heating/car issue is a good one.

A German engineer has come up with something called passive heating for homes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/world/europe/27house.html

Maybe the idea will catch on.

pip57 · June 2009

I am hoping that this worldwide recession will get some innovative ideas back on the table.

TXBadboob · June 2009

This American girl didn't want to post anymore here because I was attacked on the other thread for trying to explain the farmer's point of view. I wasn't even complaining about courtney22, thought it was a good discussion on both sides. Guess mine's the unpopular one.

Deen

dlb823 · June 2009

Deen ~ As someone who has always believed in living as naturally as possible, I was very open and interested in what you had to say. I think so many times the truth is lost in the radical hyperbole from both sides -- which, I've learned, is frequently contributed to by those with hidden agendas. So, while I am still leery of GMOs, I think my viewpoint has softened a bit with this discussion, especially what you had posted on the earlier thread.

Yesterday, I went to the NPR website to try to find a piece I'd listened to on the radio not too long ago about the amount of cancer that is appearing in Punjab Province, India, since they've adopted Western farming techniques. It's interesting, but it doesn't particularly address GMOs as much as pesticides and herbicides. But while looking for that, I came across and listened to a very good audio debate specifically on GMOs, and thought I would post both links for anyone who's interested:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103569390

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5386438

I think some of what it gets down to, at least for me (and I think someone else mentioned this on the previous page or on the earlier thread), is that we are not being given the information to make our own decisions about what we are putting into our bodies. Not being told something has been GM'd and how is my biggest problem with the whole thing. Deanna

London-Virginia · June 2009

Dear Deen, I am really glad that you are going to carry on posting - I can't speak for the US, but in England our farmers get a lot of criticism but hey, everyone wants cheap food. We now have a lot of organic farmers here, but what works well on a small island isn't always right for someplace different. Note please : I like farmers andf arming a lot, and grew up in the country with horses etc.

Courtney - I'll have a look at that - sounds good, thanks.

Pip - lets hope!

Deanna - I'll look forward to checking out the websites. I must say I am quite shocked about the GM labelling. A few years ago we had a monumental row in the uk and GM things must be labelled. Out of interest, what is the current situation with iradiated food your side of the pond?

good thread this!

TXBadboob · June 2009

Oh, I'm just whining! It hurt my feelings, I'll get over it. Even as a farmer, I believe GMO food should be labeled as such. We should have a choice whether we want to consume it or not. I also believe that we shouldn't have to pay extra for more nutritious food, and that sugar does not need to be added into everything, even diet foods.

I LOVE to grow my own veggies! Gardening is my FAVE thing to do! Cancer really put a damper on that, but I'll have another garden this fall. By the way, Texas has very strict regulations on it's Certified Organics program, and I am impressed.

Good health to all!

Deen

crazy4carrots · June 2009

Deen -- Farmers are the most important people on the planet, IMO. Hope you stay on the land and that this year's crops are prodigious!

Hugs, Linda

London-Virginia · June 2009

Deen - I actually have cousins growing organic fruits near Marble Falls!!!! I was jolly impressed by the TX regulations in this regard. Best strawberries I ever ate. But I reckon a tough thing to grow organic fruit in your climate, what with bugs and things. UK bugs are teeny wee things due the cold!

I agree - labelling is the key and people can make up their own minds then. For me, I don't want GMO crops in the UK, but I have said above, that's me on my small island and there really is a problem about the needs of those in Africa etc. If people like me are wrong, we have deprived poor countries of an opportunity.

This sugar thing really is monstrous. My granny on mummy's side lived to 98 and was a rather grande dame vegetarian for about 30 years. When I was little she gave me chapter and verse why I should never eat sugar (bleached, dyed etc etc) and other than in chocolates and cake, I never have coz it sounded yucky. Mostly I sweeten things with honey if want to. (by the way, how are the bees holding out in the USA?. Hmm, bees, gmos. wonder if this is a case in point.).

So often, it isn't the growers it is the food manufacturers that are at fault in things.

Our dairy farmers are treated very badly by supermarkets, who have a stranglehold on the market. Used to be that we had an independent body named the Milk Marketing Board who set a sensible price so reasonable to buy and producers could make a living. It got disbanded about 15 years ago - yes - you got it - so the government could save some money "and make the industry more commercial". Thanks a bunch government.

Labels - shouldn't be allowed to say "healthy" etc when they aren;t.

Phew!

Courtney - terrific idea - would do well in my part of europe where we have similar building tecyhniques basically. (Different from in the USA - I had a look at some building developments there and was very surprised at how different the methods areto our houseuilding). WE have some excellent German kit houses called Huf houses, but they are a real luxury item.

pip57 · June 2009

Virginia, I am a bee keeper in Canada, near Toronto. Over the previous two winters we lost half of our hives and had them replaced. This year we lost ALL of them. Our supplier could not get any either. So we just went through the pollination season (apples) with only the wild insects to do all the work. Interesting thought about the bees and GMO link. We looked into going organic couple of years ago. The only way to do it was to buy resistant tree stock. Yep GMO.

How are the bees over there?

Deirdre1 · June 2009

Prettyinpink100: Since you are a bee keeper could you please tell us what the professions explanation for the low bee numbers is? I have heard all sorts of theory but I figure you have your ears and eyes to the ground and would be better able to let us know.

I find this particular piece of the puzzle very interesting , is there a natural cycle to a lower bee population or is this really a "new" experience? It ties in beautifully with the GMO issue IMO. Thanks in advance for any info you may have!!!

barbe1958 · June 2009

I'd like to know as well, do the bees not like the GMO'd trees?

Take 6 or 12 grain bread. BIRDS won't even eat it! They'll eat parts of a hamburger bun, etc, so when I thought I was giving them a gourmet treat (tasted horrible to me, though!) and put it crumbled out for them, they actually walked around it!

Same as margarine. It is one molecule away from plastic. I haven't eaten it in years after hearing that one! My cats wouldn't eat anything with margarine on it and you'll never see a fly on it! Hmm... Undecided

London-Virginia · June 2009

Bee people - yay! On mainland Europe there is a bee-specific disease killing the poor little things. Very recently, there has been an article in the english press about an old strain of British bees that are apparently real little toughies who are resistant to the bee illness. Google.co.uk for the British Bee Keeper's Society - it is a lovely website with lots of info.

All over greece, there is a lot of bee keeping and it is a delight to be pootling around in the middle of nowhere and then to see on a hillside 30 or 40 or more bee hives.

Even in London, people keep bees.

Barbe - aren't birds funny! I have bought lovely yummy specialist food for songbirds to encourage them before now. Did they eat any of it? no , it went mouldy then the squirrels ate the lot!!

Also, I share your loathing for margarine. We just call it axle grease!! I just use butter in moderation, or olive oil.

By the way, yesterday I spotted some excellent sounding organic oil treatment stuff on a greek website - sounded great for healing. I'll find the link and post it.

Deanna - I followed up those 2 links. Very interesting. It kind of reminded me that this is why

India is interested in gmos (using a gneric terms for speed) but of course, that runs back into the same issues about what are the long term results? (thinks, must buy new bloody keyboard...!)

PIP - so sorry for your little friends. I always feel that bees connect us with the ancient world and have given us so much through the ages.

The church bells are ringing out for a wedding (the church is next to where I live on the river). The sky is blue but it is a bit chilly.

We have had a very windy year in the UK.

lots of love -

London-Virginia · June 2009

Have a look at this link for a wound-healing organix oil made from St
John's Wort. Interesting (of course, anyone using St John Wort shouldcheck with doctors or somebody to see that it is ok). Moderators : this is not a commercial advert thing, merely info from a site.

I am interested in medicines that have been used since ancient times because as you probably have noticed yourselves, quite often their constituents turn up in modern derivative treatments.

http://www.greektravel.com/greekislands/kea/spatholado/index.htm

Culpepper's Herbal; (written in the 17th century) suggest flax oil for baldness. Given the current interest in flax oil in tohercontexts, it may be worth revisiting Culpepper's ideas. This should really be on another thread, but I think I am not orthodox enough to be here........

TXBadboob · June 2009

I'm not sure about up north, but in Texas there is a specific mite that has devastated the honeybee population. It has been an ongoing problem, and even affects the african honey bees.

I used to have a medicinal herb garden, and made a lot of tinctures and such, it was fun, although the results either took longer or didn't work, I learned a lot, and it was the most beautiful garden I have had.

Deen

London-Virginia · June 2009

Doing a herb garden is a lovely thing. I live in a block now, but previously have created many gardens. Up the road in lovely Battersea Park they have a herb garden and also one particularly for people with very poor sight which is a profusion of delicious and restful perfumes.

I haven't ever been very dependent on herbal medicines, but certainly different preparations for the skin can be excellent. I first got onto this a number of years back when I stupidly got sun burned in Greece (round the kneecaps - sore!) and I had brought with me as a general moisturiser some very good quality aloe cream. Now this was a pretty bad burning and I was absolutely amazed at how quickly the aloe calmed things down. So since that time I have been very interested in all sorts of oils for the bath, skin creams etc using plants or herbs etc. It is a bit messy, but from time to time I put olive oil in the bath and soak. (rather good if you've got cracked heels).

Doesn't mean to say that I don't like all sort of Dior stuff too, but I like to keep an open mind on things.

I think the bee problem is worryingly universal. You might be able to get an email dialog going with the bee k eeping society over here.

Deirdre1 · June 2009

Deen: We probably have the same "mite" here in Arizona, yet I still see a great deal of bees in my back yard, and last year my neighbor had a hive removed from one of his back yard trees.. It's probably difficult for the average citizen to see the drop in numbers and yet we are told here we have a problem too. I have lots of roses and crape mertles in the back yard and that brings the bees on a regular basis (as well as humming birds - I love humming birds) etc.. I hate the idea of the bees being Africanized but I certainly don't want them gone - they are so important to our food gain - let alone our beauty crops of roses, flowering plants and medicinal plants...

pip57 · June 2009

Re Bees

There are a lot of 'bee specific' diseases that have always plagued bees. The difference with Colony Collapse Disorder is that the bees disappear. Even the queen is gone and she NEVER leaves the hive under normal circumstances. There are a lot of theories out there including the cell phone one, which I think is ridiculous. My dh and I are leaning towards a nutritional deficiency. A bees life cycle is only a few weeks, so any deficiency or weakness would be passed along very quickly. With hybrid plants and trees, it may be that the microscopic changes in the plant that create more efficient fruit and flowers, actually lower the nutritional benefits for the bees. In the north, like Canada, we feed the bees a water and sugar solution which used to be fine but maybe now it is not enough for them.

So, yes, I think that GMOs could cause problems with the insects we rely on although I don't think they are the only answer to the puzzle right now. I suspect that as climate changes and produce stock is manipulated we will have to learn new ways of keeping our bees happy and healthy. The funny thing is that the wild bees and bumble bees are more abundant than ever in our area.

London-Virginia · June 2009

Ths is very interesting. I'll see if I can mug up a bit on what the little furry ones are encountering on mainland europe, (I know there is a problem in Italy too). I am not aware of much in the way of gmo in Europe.

Are the bees a type of sentinel node to the environment? (no offense intended at all in this comment and I hope none taken).