Abd swelling after TRAM Flap

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Sonya62
Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
edited September 2016 in Breast Reconstruction

Has any one had any issues with abd swelling after bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction w/ TRAM flap.  When will the swelling go down?  What is the cause? 

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  • ghety
    ghety Member Posts: 478
    edited May 2009

    Sonya,

    I have the same question. Had bilat/tram on 1/28/09. The tummy doesn't feel quite as flat currently as it did after surgery. Almost like a mound in the center. I had a seroma for about 6 weeks but no longer need to have it drained by a needle. I don't know if its just a little fluid buildup still or not. Supposedly body should absorb it. I still wear my binder alot because it feels better to have the tummy pulled tight. I will watch your post for some answers too.

  • Deb_62
    Deb_62 Member Posts: 69
    edited May 2009

    When the PS took out my two abdominal drains last Thursday, he told me to expect some swelling as the drains wouldn't be there to remove the excessive drainage.  I noticed that my abdominal area is slightly swelled.  The binder leaves a weave pattern on my stomach & didn't have that with the drains.  If I were in your position, I would call the PS.  Hopefully you'll be okay until you can call Monday.  If you feel there is more than just normal swelling, please don't hesitate to call your dr. over the weekend.  I was told I should wear my binder for 3 months and just had my surgery 4/13.

  • priz47
    priz47 Member Posts: 470
    edited May 2009

    I had a unilat TRAM flapin July 08. I still have abdominal swelling when I walk alot or after 8 hrs of working. I wear my binder to work so I do not swell. I also feel better wearing the binder. My PS said to give it time....

    D

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    OK - at least I know I am not going crazy.  My PS and Breast / General Surgeon are saying two different things.  I wear my binder and it does make me feel a whole lot better.  I was told not to become dependent on it and Deb_62 was told to wear it for 3 months after her surgery.  WOW!  Who do you listen to?  I do remember my abd being flat when I had the drains.  Thank you all so much for the information.  I go see my PS on this coming week - one of the areas on my breast opened and now I am packing it.  My PS really wants me to have the napple surgery but I just want to get through this abd issue and chemo (which I have two more rounds) and call it a day. 

  • swimangel72
    swimangel72 Member Posts: 1,989
    edited May 2009

    There is a thread regarding abdominal swelling after tram flaps that I started last year. Here's the link:

    http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/44/topic/707134?page=2#idx_33

    My "swelling" was due to abdominal wall deterioration due to my free-tram and mrsa staph infection - the "post-surgical swelling" never dissipated, contrary to my PS's promises. Yell A cat scan ordered by my PCP finally showed the deformity in my abdominal wall muscle - and a family friend, who is a hernia specialist, finally diagnosed my hernia. Unfortunately this hernia can only be permanently repaired by MORE opened abdominal surgery to place a mrsa-resistant mesh (Strattice, not Alloderm). I have lived with this for over a year while waiting to finish my Herceptin treatments. My surgery is scheduled for July 10th - and I can't wait so I will be able to stop wearing this tight girdle/binder all day.

    All tram surgeries run the risk of abdominal hernias - the Diep surgery offers the least amount of risk, and the pedicle tram the greatest risk. I hope this information helps you - but please don't panic too soon. It does take time for true "post-swelling" to go down. Still - if after several months your swelling doesn't go away, ask your surgeon if you have a hernia.

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Thank you - I am trying to give it time.  The surgery was 2/9/09 so it has not been 3 months.  But I want my PS to be a little more up front with information.  PS said it was blotting and gas and says it is not a hernia.  The general said I needed to do sit ups and it's fluid.  I will give it a couple of months then request a scan of some type.  I look like I am pregnant and I have never been pregnant in my life.

    Thanks again - I feel soooooooo much better.  I should have been on this site sooner.  Thanks for the link as well.  Good information

  • achen2iron
    achen2iron Member Posts: 64
    edited May 2009

    I had my surgery 4/22 and had my drains removed 4/30. I start to swell more towards evening.My ps has me on celebrex and it really seem to work. The swelling and tightness go away soon after taking it and I'm good to go for another 12 hours. Does everyone else that had a TRAM get a binder. I don't have one and it was never talked about.

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Thanks - maybe I should suggest celebrex.  I am not sure if everyone has a binder but I thought that was standard practice.  The binder helps me to feel less tight.  It is a pain in the butt and does not always fit under my clothes.  I like the medication better..........  But I guess I really need to know what is going on with me. 

  • sandy2009
    sandy2009 Member Posts: 106
    edited May 2009

    Hi,

    I had a Pedicle Tram on 2/25/09 (suppose to be a DIEP but turned into a Ped. Tram).  I still have swelling issues and wear a binder.   I was told to start easing off the of the binder, but I feel better and seems like it helps with the swelling.

    I started seeing an occupational therapist and she has started massaging the incisions, very helpful with "feeling" and sensations.   She has helped with exercises also, this seems to have helped with swelling.   It will take time with the swelling.  I was told this by my Plastic Surgeon and Occ. Therapist.

    It can frustrating - you wonder when is it going to look normal.

    Sandy

  • SandyinSoCal
    SandyinSoCal Member Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2009

    It can take up to a year or more, so unfortunately, patience is what you'll need.  Avoiding salty foods helps keep the swelling to a minimum.   I was told that wearing a binder for too long may cause your core muscles to become weak from lack of use. 

  • sandy2009
    sandy2009 Member Posts: 106
    edited May 2009

    Hi MomsDaughter,

    I didn't know that about the core muscles, thanks for that information.   I am easing off of the binder and doing leg exercises - laying on my back and rotating back and forth as well as leg lifts.

    Massage on the incision area and belly have help make those spots more pliable/moveable.  It's amazing the difference when you have an experienced therapist helping you.  I'll try an be more patient with my swelling, it's only been 2 1/2 months for me.

    Sandy

  • SandyinSoCal
    SandyinSoCal Member Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2009

    Hi Sandy,

    You can start to do mini-crunches too, but sit-ups aren't the best or only way to build your abdominal strength.  The "girdle" muscles that hold your tummy in encircle your abdomen, and there are a couple of really good exercises for those muscles.  One is planking, where you get on the floor and support your body on your toes and elbows, keeping your body straight and off the floor for as long as you can.  The other is to lay on your back,  put both feet straight up in the air, and keeping your legs straight and toes together, slowly lower them to the floor.  The further down you can go with straight legs, the strong your obliques are, and the trimmer your abdomen will appear.  Too many sit-ups can actually give you a rounder belly.

    I still swell if I eat chips, or if I do any sort of work that entails bending over forward, such as working in the yard, scrubbing the floor or washing my car.  Walking and swimming do not seem to cause it.

    Massaging helps move the lymph fluid and swelling out, and feels so good!  I used to have lymphatic drainage massages twice a week, and my tummy was noticeably softer immediately after the massage.   The next day, it would feel tight again, but I think that very gradually, the massages really helped.

    You can massage your scars with circular movements and rolling, to keep them soft and prevent them from binding.

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Thanks Sandy2009.  

    I will bring up OT to my PS.  I go back to see her at the end of the month. 

  • Deb_62
    Deb_62 Member Posts: 69
    edited May 2009

    I seen the PS this morning.  He told me the reason to wear the binder was to keep down the swelling.  He said if I stopped wearing it, I would swell up. 

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    WOW Deb_62,

    That is interesting because that makes three different things I have heard about the binder - not to mention the person who did not know anything about the binder

  • ASL
    ASL Member Posts: 202
    edited May 2009

    Just to add to the confusion........I had DIEP in Nov and my PS doesn't have his patients wear a binder at all! After almost 6 months, I still have a very little bit of swelling sometimes but it doesn't get in the way of wearing whatever clothes I want.

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Do you think it is too early to get a second opinion?  Was talking to the wound nurse today at work about the open wound on my breast and she said they would handle it totally different......It that is different - what about the abd issues..................I don't know what to do

  • sandy2009
    sandy2009 Member Posts: 106
    edited May 2009

    Hi Sonya,

    Did you see your PS this week yet?  What does he think about with the open wound?  I kept my newly reconstructed breast covered with a thin layer of gauze and then the surgical bra.  I wore it to bed every night, during the day I also wore it.  It was the most comfortable.  I had a 2nd one, but it was a size smaller.

    My incisions on my breast were held together with "glue" not stitches.   These held on till my occupational therapist massaged them away a couple weeks ago.   My surgery was 2/25, right after you.

    Sandy

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Sandy -

    What is a surgical bra?  Are those like mastectomy bras.  I got two and they are too small.  I have tried wearing bras and they rub the incession and make it swell.  PS told me to wear the camies for a while.  But the right beast is begining to sag.  She did not say why and I have to say I did not ask.  The PS acted as if it was not a problem.  She told me what I needed to do to care for it put me on antibotics and scheduled me for three weeks for my next appointment.  I think I am going to call the breast surgeon and request a second opinion - he is the one that referred me to the PS.   I have also come to realize I prefer seasoned MDs over younger MDs.  I will ask to speak with my oncologist on this Friday before I start chemo.  I want her to look at the incision and tell me what she thinks.  Should I get chemo - which I pray she says yes, should I see another PS for a second opinion - if she thinks I am over reacting.  The first wound has been open since 4/2.  That is over a month.....If it needs to be surgerly done lets do it and move on.......I will also ask my oncologist about OT glue stitches.

    That you so much for taking the time to give me information and encourage me.  Tonight I am feeling kinda blue / sad.............things are not going the way I planned.  I guess that means that I am not in charge..... 

  • sandy2009
    sandy2009 Member Posts: 106
    edited May 2009

    Hi Sonya,

    I was put off we my PS as well.   I had a DIEP that turned into a Ped. Tram and left the hospital on the 4th day.  My husband helped me more than some of the nurses.

    Anyways, after I got home 6 days passed and he never called to see how I was doing.  Even my vet calls and checks on our dog!    On the 6th day I was scheduled to see him and had 3 drains removed, 5 days later he checked me again and removed the 4th and final drain.

    After this, it has been 3 week visits (3 - 3/10, 3/31, and 4/20), now I'm seeing him after a 4 1/2 weeks coming up on 5/19).   I don't get much from him, just that I should be patient.  I have swelling issues as well as some tissue firmness with the new breast.  He never suggested an occupational therapist.   I did because I couldn't move my left arm much.   I have a wonderful occupational therapist, I've learned so much from her.   She specializes in lymphedemia(sp?) as well.  So she is familiar with Ped Trams, reconstruction etc.

    A surgical bra is one they gave me in the hospital (after my surgery I woke up wearing it), they gave me 2 (one to take home too) as well as 2 surgical binders.   A wonderful nurse did this.  It has velcros in the front.  I couldn't wear a camisole bra or sport bra, too snug even with a size 42 +.   I'm typically a 34B.   I needed to be comfortable and let everything "form" with my new breast.   I think I will still need another surgery.  The nipple area and around is still inverted in and there is still incision work too probably.  Also, possible a lift on the other side.  I had a left max. only.  I was told for every hour you're under anethesia it's a month recovery (I'm not sure how true this is, but it seems like forever to feel myself).

    Get a 2nd opinion from the other PS who referred you, more knowledge the better.  Are you dry-packing" the wound?   I am amazed how long it taking for healing, I am seeing good changes especially since I'm seeing this Occ. Therapist.  She is massaging (gently) my new breast.   There is an open window she told me that she could start this, so the tissue is softening.   

    You're not over- reacting!  Don't let someone make you feel that way - you need to be your own advocate/vigilante!   I would take care of the wound and get good answers so you're not worried. Your immunion system will be comprised with chemo.   Please take care, good luck, you can PM me any time.

    Sandy :)

  • sandy2009
    sandy2009 Member Posts: 106
    edited May 2009

    Also Sonya,

    I just started easing off my binder.  I felt good wearing it, not tight though.  My PS told me to do this after I saw him on 4/20.  I was nervous about doing this but I cut but 1/2 days and at night.  The first night felt strange.   He told me it was more for the incision area - support.   I know, everyone says different things.     My PS also said there is no where for the fluid to drain, so the body will absorb it over time.  

    Also, after awhile your new breasts will take on there own blood supply and not need the stomach muscle (in my case), but the Ped tram can't be reversed.  

    Sandy

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    OK - I never got that bra.  I was in surgery for 10.5 hours - I pray it does not take me 10.5 months to fully recover.  I am going for chemo tomorrow and will ask my oncologist about all of this and for a OT referral.  I try not to wear the binder too much but it sure does make me feel better.I am down from a 40H to a 40C bra size.  I am very happy with the size but can't really enjoy it because I can't wear a bra.  I am looking forward to sun dresses and all that the smaller size brings but I guess I have to patient.  I am packing the wound - wet to dry.

    Thank you ladies so much for your encouragement and support.  You all have been a blessing

  • sandy2009
    sandy2009 Member Posts: 106
    edited May 2009

    Sonya,

    Good luck today with Chemo, hope you get good answers with everything.

    Sending good thoughts and blessings, Sandy

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Sandy -

    Chemo is going great. The doctor is not here but the PA is here so I talked with her little.  I will speak to the MD about the major things.  I go see the breast MD on Thursday - I will present him with the same questions that I was going to talk to the oncolgoist about. Thank you for thinking of me today. 

    Have a great mother's day

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Sandy -

    Chemo is going great. The doctor is not here but the PA is here so I talked with her little.  I will speak to the MD about the major things.  I go see the breast MD on Thursday - I will present him with the same questions that I was going to talk to the oncolgoist about. Thank you for thinking of me today. 

    Have a great mother's day

  • Sonya62
    Sonya62 Member Posts: 17
    edited May 2009

    Just wanted to update everyone.  I went to my breast surgeon and he referred me to a wound doctor.  Peroxide should never be used on an open wound for packing per the wound doctor .  However she would like for me to spend time in a oxygen chamber.  Don't think that is going to happen. You are closed in this tube for two hours to increase your oxygen in take.  If the wound is not closed 4 weeks after the chemo I will ask for day surgery so that it can be closed.  This is when the PS wanted to do her scond surgery to replace the nipples.  And I will request that my general surgeon do it don't think I want the PS.  I also saw my PCP who wonders why it took to long to refer me to the wound doctor and why no one requested a CT of my abd.  Which he did

  • swimangel72
    swimangel72 Member Posts: 1,989
    edited May 2009

    Sonya - I had to be my own advocate when dealing with my abdominal wound. Even after it healed, I ended up with a large bulge and my PS acted like nothing was wrong. He even had the nerve to say, "Maybe you gained weight." rather than give me a Cat scan. So I made an appointment with my PCP who ordered the cat scan which showed the hernia. Then I found myself a new surgeon who will repair the abdominal bulge properly and a new PS. Don't wait for your PS to come to your rescue - you need to advocate for yourself whenever something doesn't seem right. Also - there are portable wound vacs to help your wound close - you don't need to spend 2 hours in a chamber. Ask about it........it's unlikely that they will surgically close your wound - usually the surgeons want them to heal from the "inside-out" - but ask your surgeon to be sure. Hang in there - it took 4 months for my abdominal wound to heal with packing, but eventually it did. Take care and let us know how you feel!

  • smithlme
    smithlme Member Posts: 1,322
    edited May 2009

    It took three months for my incision to heal after my failed TRAM. As for the swelling...it's been a year and a half and my stomach still swells sideways. Yep, that's right. Instead of an "all over" bloat, it's along the top of my stomach. I've been to see another PS to have scar revisions and she said that it's because of the way the previous PS shaped my lower abdomen and stretched the surrounding tissue. Luckily, there's no hernia. I've lost 24 pounds, hoping the bloating would go away, but it hasn't helped...

    Linda

  • sassie62
    sassie62 Member Posts: 223
    edited May 2009

    Dear Ladies:

    I am 9 days out for a Diep/Gap surgery at NOLA.

    I have ventured on your site and I am curious.  Are you having this swelling because you had the tram or free tram or is this a problem with any abdomen surgeries including the Diep.  I had the great experience of seeing two women who had the Diep and their stomachs were as flat as a board with no problem of swelling.  I have always had a belly and I would hate to think I would have a bigger bundle after the Diep.

    Any comments would be appreciated.

    Sassie

  • swimangel72
    swimangel72 Member Posts: 1,989
    edited May 2009

    Sassie - I ended up with an abdominal hernia as a direct result of the free-tram - it became infected with mrsa in the hospital - the mrsa destroyed my abdominal muscle (which had already been compromised by the removal of a 1 cm "cuff" of muscle when they removed the perforators) - and this is why I have a large bulge. It is not "swelling".........swelling implies a temporary situation. My hernia is permanent - and can only be repaired with opened abdominal surgery to place mrsa-resistant mesh. To answer your question - this problem could occur during ANY abdominal surgery, including Diep......but it is more common with free-trams and pedicle trams. My surgery was 7 hours long and my immune system was already compromised - I had been on antibiotics for 3 days prior to surgery to fight off bronchitis. I showed up in the hospital with a 100.6 fever but the anesthesiologist said "she's good to go" - thus started my down-hill spiral. I blame the anesthesiologist for his cavelier attitude about my overall health........and I blame my surgeons for not speaking up to post-pone this surgery, but I've been told by two malpractice lawyers that my case will never win so I've given up thinking about a law-suit. I went into this surgery with so much confidence - in my doctors - in my own health and ability to heal - and with optimism that I too would get the "added benefit of a tummy tuck". How I wish I could turn back the clock to last year.......to change my attitude........to stop and think how serious this surgery really is........that it is much more involved than a regular cosmetic tummy tuck.........and how I wish I had gone to a more experienced plastic surgeon. Since I can't go back in time..........I use my experience as a warning to other women about to undergo reconstruction to research your surgeons and hospital thoroughly........and to learn more about preventing hospital acquired infections. Check out this web site to educate yourself on the dangers of mrsa and c-diff:

    www.hospitalinfection.org

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