No Meat or Dairy Question

You can get calcium from anything that comes out of the ground.  But greens are the best. Look at it this way...horse weights as much as 1400 pounds with large muscle mass and bones. Did you ever see one drink milk?  Also remember there are a lot of countries that don't drink milk.  I can't remember what veggies other than greens that are high in calcium.  I do worry about our food supply and the our soil content.  So I also take supplements.

As for protein there are a couple ways to get good protein.  Beans, eggs and seafood.  You can also supplement with a good low carb Whey drink mix.  Whey is a pretty pure form of protein and calcium.

Also remember eating good lean white meat is ok some time.  Just moderation with any of the no no foods.  Research says if you can balance 80% good stuff and 20% bad in a day you will be way ahead of the game too good health. 

Flalady

Edited:  If you are on chemo you need more protein than a person not on chemo. 

Salmon Tofu Rhubarb Sardines Collard greens Spinach Turnip greens Okra White beans Baked beans Broccoli Peas Brussel sprouts Sesame seeds Bok choy AlmondsAll of these are high in calcium.  Wish l liked more of them:0)

tofu = soy

 I thought we were doing no soy.  

Isn't white beans on the list of no no's - doesn't it increase estrogen?

Oneworker:  I have read that the lower rates of bc in Japan and other Asian countries is attributed to the ingestion of soy from childhood onwards (and I suppose we can even go back to the fact that Asian mothers who eat soy pass it along to the fetus and then to the baby during breastfeeding).  Where the difficulty lies in the western world is when soy products begin to be eaten later in life, as incorporated into the western diet.

When Chinese/Japanese etc. women move to North America and start consuming a western diet, within a generation, their bc rates start to equal those of Americans, even when they continue ingesting soy products along with the western diet.  I don't think researchers have actually figured out why this is, but logic seems to indicate that western and Asian diets don't co-exist to our benefit.....maybe the way soy is processed here does have something to do with it?

I was against organic and was proud of the hormones until all of thisBC stuff. NOW...I eat organic meat and dairy. Tastes the same, just smaller portions. Hooked on ground turkey.

You do not have to give up red meat and dairy but you might want to seriously consider organic versions of those to eliminate added hormones and pesticides.

FloridaLady:  What about the good fats (olive oil, nuts, etc.)?  I also wondered about small amounts of butter from grass fed cows; supposedly, the omega 3 and omega 6 is balanced.  I have been resisting the idea of giving up dairy, especially my organic yogurt.  However, I am thinking it may be the way to go.  Would almond milk be a good substitute?  Thanks in advance for your help.

FloridaLady:  Thanks.  I just received an order of salmon from Vital Choice today.  I haven't ordered from them for a long time because of the expense.  However, their wild atlantic salmon is delicious - had it for dinner with baked sweet potato and steamed broccoli.  I have also been eating small amounts of Laura's Lean beef (no hormones or antibiotics).  I recently heard of a local farmer who has organic, grass fed beef; I may start buying small amounts of that.  My biggest challenge is to keep from giving in to cravings for junk, i.e. cookies, crackers, ice cream, etc.  I do well for a while, then "fall off the wagon" for a day or so. 

I have to wonder about going out of our way to include special foods and nutrients in our diets when, if you stop and think about it, humans evolved eating what was in their close proximity and, in the case of fish, for instance, they could only eat what was in their area.

When you look at human life expectancies, you only see that we live a lot longer today than generations ago, but the stats don't tell the whole story.  For the most part, people who survived accidents, epidemics and childbirth lived as long as we do now, but the AVERAGE life expectancy was much lower because the arithmetic mean is used.  All those deaths in childbirth and childhood, etc. bring the average way down.

	Related Pages Search for Clinical Trials NCI's PDQ® registry of cancer clinical trials. Breast Cancer Home Page NCI's gateway for information about breast cancer. Highlights from ASCO 2005 A collection of links to material summarizing some of the important clinical trial results announced at the 2005 annual meeting of the American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO).

Low-Fat Diet May Reduce Risk of Breast Cancer Relapse

Key Words

Breast cancer, low-fat diet, prevention. (Definitions of many terms related to cancer can be found in the Cancer.gov Dictionary.)

Summary

Postmenopausal women who ate a low-fat diet were less likely to get a recurrence of breast cancer than those who ate a standard diet. This is the first time a large randomized clinical trial has shown that a low-fat diet can reduce the chance of breast cancer coming back.

Source

American Society of Clinical Oncology annual meeting, Orlando, Florida, May 16, 2005.

Background

Excluding nonmelanoma skin cancers, breast cancer is the most common cancer in women. It's estimated that in 2005 more than 211,000 women in the United States will be diagnosed with invasive breast cancer. As a result of earlier detection and better initial treatments, more women are surviving an initial diagnosis of breast cancer, but many of them remain at risk for a recurrence.

Many studies in animals, as well as observational studies in humans, have strongly suggested that a high-fat diet contributes to the development of breast cancer in postmenopausal women. Subsequent large prospective studies, however, have failed to show that lowering dietary fat led to a reduction in breast cancer risk.

The Study

The Women's Intervention Nutrition Study (WINS) was a large, prospective, randomized phase III study to investigate whether a low-fat diet could reduce breast cancer recurrence rates in postmenopausal women who had been treated for early-stage breast cancer. Postmenopausal women were chosen because they tend to have less variability in their types of breast cancer than premenopausal women.

Between 1994 and 2001, the study enrolled 2,437 women who in the previous year had had breast cancer surgery followed by therapy appropriate to their particular cancer. The women, whose average age was 62 were randomly assigned to one of two dietary groups. One group was asked to follow their standard diet. Women in this group met with a nutritional counselor periodically but were not urged to change their diet, which contained an average of about 51 grams of fat a day (about 40 percent of total calories from fat).

Women in the second group were asked to modify their diet to reduce their consumption of dietary fat to 20 percent of total calories. Each woman received eight one-on-one dietary counseling sessions with a nutritionist (one every other week for 16 weeks). After that, they saw the nutritionist every three months for the duration of the study. The nutritionist offered support and advice about reducing dietary fat consumption by, for example, using less oil when cooking, increasing intake of fruit and vegetables, controlling portion sizes, and so on. The diet eaten by women in the low-fat group contained an average of 33 grams of fat a day.

Women in both groups kept diaries in which they recorded their daily food consumption. In addition, trained interviewers periodically contacted all of the women by phone to question them about what they were eating.

Encouraging women to have more active lifestyles was not a goal of the study, said principal investigator Rowan T. Chlebowski, M.D., Ph.D, of the Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute in California. Most women in both the standard-diet and low-fat diet groups had sedentary lifestyles.

Results

After a median of five years of follow-up, breast cancer had come back in 9.8 percent of the women on the low-fat diet and 12.4 percent of those on the standard diet. This amounted to a 24 percent reduction in the risk of recurrence for the women on the low-fat diet.

The largest risk reduction - 42 percent - was seen among women on the low-fat diet whose tumors did not respond to the presence of the hormone estrogen. Breast cancer that doesn't respond to estrogen is called estrogen receptor negative (ER-negative) and usually has a poorer outlook than ER-positive disease. Postmenopausal women whose tumors do respond to estrogen are candidates for anti-estrogen drugs such as tamoxifen or letrozole, which help reduce the risk of relapse.

Although weight loss was not a goal of the study, women who followed the low-fat diet lost an average of four pounds, said Chlebowski.

(Note: final results from this study were subsequently published in the Dec. 20, 2006, Journal of the National Cancer Institute; see the journal abstract and the related NCI press release.)

Limitations

The research team cannot be certain that the low-fat diet was responsible for the lower rate of recurrence in the women assigned to that group, said Chlebowski. Other factors, such as the modest weight loss seen in the low-fat group or increased consumption of fruit and vegetables, may have contributed to the outcome.

Additionally, some, but not all, women in both study groups were treated with chemotherapy following surgery. The researchers have not yet analyzed whether chemotherapy was associated with improved survival.

Comments

These results suggest that an intervention aimed at reducing dietary fat consumption can reduce the risk of breast cancer recurrence, said Chlebowski. Although further confirmation is needed, he said a low-fat diet may offer other health benefits, such as modest weight loss.

It may be reasonable for physicians to suggest that postmenopausal women who have been treated for breast cancer consider following a low-fat diet because of these other health benefits, he concluded.

"This is one of the very few controlled intervention studies [in the field of cancer prevention] where we can truly monitor the efficacy of the intervention," said John Milner, Ph.D., of the National Cancer Institute's Division of Cancer Prevention. "Monitoring was done every three months, which is far better than in many trials. I have a lot of faith in this study."

Milner also noted that "we have few options to offer women with ER-negative tumors" in terms of preventing a recurrence of their cancer, and so this study's suggestion that a low-fat diet may be particularly effective for them "is exciting news."

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The operant word here is "may" in the title.  Another study showing correlations but not causation.  There was no mention of source of fats being from meat and dairy, though.

I say if you think you will benefit from such a diet you should certainly go ahead and do it.

Red meat in culinary terminology refers to meat which is red-colored when raw. Red meat includes many mammals, but not others. Duck has red meat, but is a bird.

Contents [hide] 1 Gastronomy: red coloured meat 2 Cooking 3 Myoglobin Concentration 4 Health effects 4.1 Cancer 4.2 Cardiovascular diseases 4.3 Other health issues 4.4 Premature death link 4.5 Food pyramid 5 Culture 6 References

[edit] Gastronomy: red coloured meat

In gastronomy, "red meat" is darker-colored meat, as contrasted with white meat. The exact definition varies by time, place, and culture, but the meat of adult mammals such as beef, mutton, and horse is invariably considered "red", while chicken and rabbit are invariably considered "white". The meat of young mammals such as milk-fed veal and lamb, and that of pork is traditionally considered "white"; while the meat of duck and goose is considered "red",^[1] though the demarcation line has been shifting. Game is sometimes put in a separate category altogether (French viandes noires 'black meats').^[2]

[edit] Cooking

Red meat does not refer to how well a piece of meat is cooked or its coloration after cooking. A steak or hamburger is a red meat whether it is served rare, or cooked until it is well-done; pork is also red, though it turns to a whitish color when cooked. According to the USDA all meats obtained from "livestock" are "red meats" because they contain more myoglobin than chicken or fish.^[3]

[edit] Myoglobin Concentration

The main determinant of the color of meat is the concentration of myoglobin. The white meat of chicken has under 0.05%; chicken thigh has 0.18-0.20%; pork and veal have 0.1-0.3%; young beef has 0.4-1.0%; and old beef has 1.5-2.0%.^[4]

In the health discussion below, we assume the nutritional, not the traditional gastronomic, definitions.

[edit] Health effects

The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (October 2008)

While red meat is a good source of complete protein and iron, its regular consumption presents several health risks, largely due to the saturated fat content of many cuts. It has been suggested that these health risks are largely absent from grass-fed beef (rather than corn-fed beef).^[5]

[edit] Cancer

Recent studies indicate that red meat could pose a notable increase in cancer risk. Some studies have linked consumption of large amounts of red meat with breast cancer,^[6]colorectal cancer,^[7][8]stomach cancer,^[9]lymphoma,^[10]bladder cancer^[11] and prostate cancer.^[11][12] Furthermore, there is convincing evidence that consumption of beef, pork, lamb, and goat from domesticated animals is a cause of colorectal cancer.^[13] Professor Sheila Bingham of the Dunn Human Nutrition Unit attributes this to the haemoglobin and myoglobin molecules which are found in red meat. She suggests these molecules, when ingested trigger a process called nitrosation in the gut which leads to the formation of carcinogens.^[14][15]

Eating cooked red meat may increase the likelihood of cancer because carcinogenic compounds called heterocyclic amines are created during the cooking process. Heterocyclic amines may not explain why red meat is more harmful than other meat, however, as these compounds are also found in poultry and fish, which have not been linked to an increased cancer risk.^[16]

[edit] Cardiovascular diseases

Red meat consumption is associated with cardiovascular diseases, possibly because of its high content of saturated fat.^[11]

A 1999 study funded by the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, an advocacy group for beef producers, involved 191 persons with high cholesterol on diets where at least 80% of the meat intake came from either lean red meat in one group, or lean white meat in another. The results of this study showed nearly identical cholesterol, and triglyceride levels in both groups. This study suggests that lean red meat may play a role in a low-fat diet for persons with high cholesterol. ^[17][18]

[edit] Other health issues

Regular consumption of red meat has also been linked to bone loss,^[19]type 2 diabetes,^[20]hypertension^[11] and arthritis.^[11]

[edit] Premature death link

A study published in the Archives of Internal Medicine, of more than 500,000 middle-age and elderly Americans found that those who consumed the equivalent of about a small hamburger every day were more than 30 percent more likely to die during the 10 years they were followed, mostly from heart disease and cancer. "The bottom line is we found an association between red meat and processed meat and an increased risk of mortality," said Rashmi Sinha of the National Cancer Institute.^[21][22][23

There is substantial difference between healthy red meat and unhealthy red meat.

By unhealthy I mean meat from animals that have been confined and fed an inadequate diet (grains, for example) and that have been given hormones, antibiotics, whatnot.

Healthy red meat comes from animals that have led a healthful, natural life themselves, out in the open in good weather, sheltered in adverse weather, eating grass and hey, like in the good old times, with no hormones or drugs. Such meat still exists, it is out there and it is good for you.

The same can be said of poultry, eggs, and dairy. And the good kind is good for you, too.

If you choose to deprive yourself of these healthy foods, that's your privilege; but don't fool yourself into thinking it is for health reasons.

Does a Red Meat Diet Increase the Risk of Pancreatic Cancer? By Robert Rister  Robert Rister Level: Platinum My name is Robert Rister, and I'm the author or co-author of nine books about the rational use of scientifically based natural remedies, including Healing ... ... Article Word Count: 355   [View Summary] Comments (1) Ads by Google Personal Fitness Trainer Weight Loss and Nutrition Coaching Lose Weight Or Pay Nothing! http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=BkhNxkETNSZy6OKD-xQXsiL3NBMe2_4YBg_rF2A21gr6FFoDciAEQARgBIIy0_QEoAjgAUNiG7_kEYMmutIfco_AQsgERZXppbmVhcnRpY2xlcy5jb23IAQHaAWFodHRwOi8vZXppbmVhcnRpY2xlcy5jb20vP0RvZXMtYS1SZWQtTWVhdC1EaWV0LUluY3JlYXNlLXRoZS1SaXNrLW9mLVBhbmNyZWF0aWMtQ2FuY2VyPyZpZD0xNzcwODc2gAIBwAIBqAMB6AOtA-gDeugDLfUDAAAABPUDAABAAJgEAA&num=1&sig=AGiWqtypcgTayE17R7gVAViTn-o_k4T03Q&client=ca-pub-3754405753000444&adurl=http://www.davidmodderman.com Ezine Tools 3 Killer Ezine Secrets Earn Money with Your Ezine! http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=B7uDkkETNSZy6OKD-xQXsiL3NBNy7yIcBwtL_nwqIp6_QBMCcsgEQAhgCIIy0_QEoAjgAUK2u7_T5_____wFgya60h9yj8BCgAfCHrf8DsgERZXppbmVhcnRpY2xlcy5jb23IAQHaAWFodHRwOi8vZXppbmVhcnRpY2xlcy5jb20vP0RvZXMtYS1SZWQtTWVhdC1EaWV0LUluY3JlYXNlLXRoZS1SaXNrLW9mLVBhbmNyZWF0aWMtQ2FuY2VyPyZpZD0xNzcwODc2gAIBwAIBqAMB6AOtA-gDeugDLfUDAAAABPUDAABAAJgEAA&num=2&sig=AGiWqtyMcDIXuvq680VeXAKBxqeka-n_gA&client=ca-pub-3754405753000444&adurl=http://www.ezinequeen.com/optin2.htm

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Pancreatic cancer is the fourth leading cause of death among people who die of cancer, and because it is usually not diagnosed until the tumors have begun to spread elsewhere in the body, survival rates are especially low. That's why people who have known risk factors for pancreatic cancer (a parent, grandparent, or sibling who had the disease, work in the petrochemical industry, work with solvents, smoking) may benefit from dietary changes that lower the risk of the disease. Or at least lower the risk of the disease on a population-wide level.

Red meat has long been suspect as a source of pancreatic cancer risk. Physicians at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston interviewed 626 people who had pancreatic cancer and 530 healthy controlled and learned that people who develop this condition tend to eat more:

• Bacon,
• Grilled chicken,
• Fried chicken, and
• Well-done pork, but

increased risk was not associated with:

• Hamburger (with one exception, listed below) or
• Steak.

People who develop pancreatic cancer were more likely to prefer crispy bacon and very well done chicken than people who did not develop the disease.

The specific carcinogen most associated with cancer of the pancreas was the mindbogglingly named 2-amino-3,4,8-trimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoxaline (DiMeIQx). This chemical is formed when hamburger is "charred" so that its edges are burnt. Baked, fried, or medium rare hamburgers produce only small amounts of this chemical, but char-burgers are measurably carcinogenic.

What most afficionados of grilled meat and barbecue do not know is, the heterocyclic amines, the chemically modified proteins of meat cooked at high temperatures, have to be detoxified with the same enzymes the liver uses to detoxify tobacco smoke or chemicals from gasoline or solvents. Eating well-done red meat on a regular basis may take so much of the liver's enzyme capacity that it is not able to deal with the toxic load coming from elsewhere in the environment.

There was one silver lining in the dark cloud of the findings of this study. The MD Anderson researchers learned that people who had a family history of pancreatic cancer were not at elevated risk for getting the disease if they avoided well-done meats