I cannot sleep.

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  • lewisfamily503
    lewisfamily503 Member Posts: 621
    edited February 2009

    I just had to add to this thread.  I have not been able to STAY asleep for quite awhile now, do to menopause.  Just like many women have reported on this topic, I fall asleep just fine, but then, I wake up around 2-3 AM and that's all the sleep I get!!  SO frustrating!!!!!!  Anyway, after reading this thread, I went out yesterday and purchased the "Calms Forte.:  They had it at Walgreens and it was about $6.99 or so for 50 tablets.  I took one when I went to bed and then when once again, I woke up at 2, I took another one.  It WORKED!!!! I did wake a few more times (do to hot flashes) but I got right back to sleep.  It was a bit hard to wake up this morning, but after my morning walk with my dog, I feel much more alert.  I will keep you posted as to whether it keeps working, but it's nice to know something non-prescription can help!

    Anne 

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  • Genie2
    Genie2 Member Posts: 38
    edited February 2009

    FirstMate, thanks for starting to talk about this.  I have been "finished" my 4 cycles of TC for 17 days now.  Just began Arimidex.  I have sleep "issues" anyway.   None of the prescription stuff mentioned here works for me, either.  I have a CPAP machine, too.  I have no trouble falling asleep.  But, that 3:00 wake-up is making me desperate.  I am going to get some Calms Forte as soon as I get out of bed from this sinus infection.  (And a real problem with the antibiotic.  Avalox.  Talk about pain!)  Anyway, enough!  I just want you to know that I marked this thread and will check it every day as I try to get through the next five years on an aromatse inhibitor.  (If I can "tolerate" it.  My oncologist says some women never can tolerate any of the 3 AIs available.  Everything would go so much more smoothly if I could just SLEEP. 

    I want to ask lewisfamily503 to please read her Calms Forte box and tell us what the ingredients are. Thanks.  Genie

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  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    Not to make anyone jealous but I slept 8 1/2 hours last night. I woke up a little but fell back to sleep without taking any more.  I make sure I do not eat or drink after 7 pm. The only thing I use is melatonin and it took me a while to get the right amount for me. It is essential that there is no light or it does not work. I have a lavender sented eyemask that is made of a cool fabric. I keep it on my eyes and it has made the difference. Even a little light from a clock can effect the melatonin levels so it is important that you block out any light or it will not work. In almost every book I have read on prevention, they mention melatonin, and as Twirlgirl says, there are studies out that higher does are showing to prevent cancer.

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  • lewisfamily503
    lewisfamily503 Member Posts: 621
    edited February 2009

    Genie,  I will let you know what ALL the ingredients are, but the main one was chamomile (sorry if I didn't spell that right!).  There is also magnesium.  As for the rest of the ingredients, I will post tonight ( I am at work right now!)  The box says 100% natural and non-habit forming.  Also, it says you can take a dose of one or two tablets up to three times a day to keep you relaxed.  It is definitely relaxing!!   Anne

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  • Genie2
    Genie2 Member Posts: 38
    edited February 2009
    Thanks, lewisfamily503, you don't need to check when you get home.  I was able to find the ingredients at the Calms Forte Website  www.calmsforte.com.  I tried to copy and paste the ingredients here, but it won't post if I copy and paste.  Weird.  Anyway, anyone who wants to know "what's in it" can go to the Web site and find out.  I will get some soon.  I am happy to know it is helping you---and others.  Thanks   Genie
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  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Donna~ YES, you can take Natural Calm and Calm's Forte together with no problem. Both are very gentle.

    In fact, you can take Meletonian, Calm's Forte, Natural Calm & tradiational sleep meds all together. I find that even though Ambien will usually work for me, I don't feel as rested as I do with "non-drugged' sleep. Better than none at all, for sure! But now that I am able to be off the Ambien, I am getting better sleep with the combo of Meletonian, Natural Calm, and lifestyle changes. Adding extra B-12 Vitamins (1,000 mg a day) really helps with the sleep. after I added that, I turned the corner.

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  • lewisfamily503
    lewisfamily503 Member Posts: 621
    edited February 2009

    I forgot to add:  I started taking Estroven, maximum strength this past week, so I take one of those every night (and every morning). They contain soy, black cohosh and lots of B vitamins, plus some herbs.  My doctor told me it was okay even though I had breast cancer, as I know there have been some concerns raised about taking soy!  They seem to work fairly well, although I am still having hot flashes.

    Anne 

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  • WellWater
    WellWater Member Posts: 6,546
    edited February 2009

    The ingredients for Calm's Forte are:

    Passiflora HPUS 1X Triple Strength

    Avena Sativa HPUS 1S Double Strength

    Hummulus Lupuulus HPUS Double Strength

    Chamomilla HPUS 2X

    Calcarea Phosphorica HPUS 3X

    Ferrum Phosphosicum HPUS 3X

    Kali Phosphoricum HPUS 3X

    Natrum Phosphoricum HPUS 3X

    Magnesia Phosphoricum HPUS 3X

    Uses:  Temporarily relieves the symptoms of simple nervous tension and occasional sleepness.

    The only warnings seem to be pregnancy or nursing.

    It can be given to children over 12

    It is Homeopathic.

    I'm laughing Vivre - I have more LCD lights, nightlight, computer routing lights, etc., than you can shake a stick at.  Rather than trying to turn them all off, I'll get an eye mask.

    I too got a decent night's sleep but it was induced by a sleeping pill and 2 nights of little to no sleep.....and I do not feel refreshed because a drugged sleep never feels particularly refreshing.

    Tonight I'll take the Calm's Forte and hope for a successful 5 hours at least.

    Trina

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Lookog forward to the Calm';s Forte!!!! Really do not want to be on Ambien as i do not feel rested the next day!!Thanks twirlgirl!!!   Are you taking the melatonin orally? Goin to look into the Natural Calm next!!THANKS!!! The eye mask sounds soooo soothing..lollol. Love good sleep, it is everything to me and hopin  to get it back even before or during chemo!!!!!PS Vivre..lolol.. yes jealous of your 81/2 hours of sleep!!!! GOOD luck to all of you in sleep!!!!!

    Sleepless in IL NO MORE!!!

    Donna

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  • Welga
    Welga Member Posts: 308
    edited February 2009

    Hello,

    I wanted to buy the Calm's Forte also, but looking up what  Avena Sativa was I fount it was oatmeal and ginseng. Don't know if there is enough ginseng in there to be harmfull reading that ginseng should not be taken with our condition, just wanted to let you know...sorry as it seems to work so well I was anxious to try it but will wait and see. 

    Welga

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  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Welga~ How Homeopathic formulas work is with a compound of trace amounts of the ingredients. Very small amount of Ginseng. you have to choose what you feel comfortable with, but IMHO, getting good sleep is the #1 most healing thing you can give your body and the benefits will outweigh any tiny amount of ginseng...just my 2cents.

     sweet dreams, all!

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  • priz47
    priz47 Member Posts: 470
    edited February 2009

    Anne,

    My onc said NO to Estroven bcs of the soy and black cohosh. Do you think it works? I will try the Calm Forte and melotonin. The only light I have in my room is the clock, but my dogs wake me up. They NEVER go to my DH side of the bed, only mine! They know who will get up! My DH says I shouldn't get up to let them out, but I do not want to chance them peeing or pooping in the house!

    D

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  • lewisfamily503
    lewisfamily503 Member Posts: 621
    edited February 2009

    D,  I guess my doctor said okay to Estroven since I am declared "free" of cancer at this point because it was dcis and I had a mastectomy.  He did say good luck getting any doctor to approve any hormone therapy for me.  I was miserable and he said he thought I should use black cohosh.  I said I already use soy and it seemed to work fairly well. So.........I found the Estroven extra-strength, which has both ingredients plus a host of b complex vitamins and other things as well.  I do think it is working, but....I do still have several hot flashes per day.  I don't ever seem to get sweats, though.  Just an intense burning of my face, like I am blushing.   I feel so much more calm, though.  I definitely feel better!!!   Also, D,  I think you should do what I do when my DH doesn't wake up when my dog whines.  I just nudge him gently, until he stirs.  Then I pretend to be sleeping soundly.  This usually works, as he knows I am having sleeping issues and it's in his best interest to deal with the dog. Otherwise, he has to deal with me later!!!!!

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009
    priz47... Can I relate!!!! I have three goldens ..  seniors.. and ALWAYS do they go to my side of bed too!!!When I came home from hosptial from surgery, they were so darn confused as they could not understand why my DH was doin everything!!!!Did not last long!!!! DH is letting them out in AM as he knows I am still in healing mode!!!!Got to train these DH"S during this time!!!!!LOLOL!!!
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  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    Donna, when you DH starts treating you like the old days, you will know you are well, or at least he thinks you are.LOL

    Anne, be careful with the estroven. We are having quite a heated discussion of HRT on the Suzanne Somers thread. There is a lot of info out there that promotes using bioidentical HRT as oppossed to synthetic. I have been studing this for many months and I am finally going to a doctor who specializes in it. Doctors themselves are confused so make sure you do a lot of research.

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  • lewisfamily503
    lewisfamily503 Member Posts: 621
    edited February 2009

    Thanks for the advice Vivre.  I was just reading the Suzanne Sommers thread.  It sounded quite angry other there, and I just decided not to participate because I really don't want to be a part of all that controversy!!!   I am trying to be careful.  However, at this point, my doctors say I am cancer free and I am DESPERATE to  alleviate my hot flashes!!! I do have to say it's been a full week with Estroven and I am feeling fine!!  Not completely symptom free but SOO much better.  So, for now I am sticking with this plan.  I have also been on the "Not Sleeping" thread, and I have been taking "Calms Forte" (from Walgreens) and that has REALLY helped me with sleeping!!   I do agree that doctors are confused and not aware of all these issues. My doctor had NO idea what bioidentical hormone replacement therapy was.  He said he had never even heard of it!!!!

    Anne 

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  • Deirdre1
    Deirdre1 Member Posts: 1,461
    edited February 2009

    Leaf,  you should start an entire thread on how we should approach our pharmacists!!  I'm not kidding!   I just found out that our state reports all use of prescription sleep, pain, and anxiety meds to the State Pharmacy Board..  So much for doc/patient confidentiallity!  I talk to my pharmacist and we seem to have a good rapport, but I was concerned when I was placing a lot of scrips.. but the one thing that seemed to help is that they came from one doc..  now that doc has retired.. ughhhh I hate this - I didn't even take asprin for most of my life now I seem to be on several drugs and hundreds of supplements at any given time..  But they (pharmacists) really don't get the full picture and don't have time (most of the time) to listen if we want to tell them!!!    urrg just venting!! It's a real problem though IMO.

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Deidre....How true is that!!!Me too, barely taking an aspirin beofre my daignosis and now i am prescribed every narcotic there could be!!!Taking Ambien i HOPE  stops tonight as I am gettin the Calm;s Forte today!!!! One less medication , I hope!!!

    Anne.. I had been on bio identical hormones for a good 8 years. Truly had to educate my Dr. as he knew nothing on it either. IT was a  risk, as you never know if it would be a cancer risk. BUT the quality of life then was most impt and it did improve so much for me. Finding a good compound pharmacist was impt and peace of mind in doin it. Today, deep down, i wonder if the bio-identical promoted this cancer today? But it was so hard not to do something back then, for i was miserable!!Educating and doin what you feel most comfortable with is the best advice also!!!! Such a challenging passage and scary how uninformed medical doctors are in this area!!!!

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    One more thing.. if anyone could suggest what to start with  in how many for Calm's Forte.. start tonight!!  also have some melatonin tablets.. 3 mg. How long before i go to bed is it best to take it. So hoping this works, want to get off the Ambien!!! Love this thread and so glad we have each other as sleep or lack of is such an issue!!!!Prior to this diagnosis, all was fine in that area!!!

    Hugs and Pleasant Dreams tonight!!!

    Donna

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  • Deirdre1
    Deirdre1 Member Posts: 1,461
    edited February 2009

    Oh Donna!  Someone here mentioned extended release Melatonin (THANK YOU!) and it doses all night, so that if you have a tendency to be woken it kicks in over time..  It worked really well for me, I had been trying the Melatonin (3mg), and it would put me to sleep but not keep me asleep..  But the extended release did the trick - now I didn't know about the no light thing and I imagine (when I get my eye cover) this will help too!  Good luck and here's to a good night's sleep!!!

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  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Donna~

    When you take the melatonin depends on what type you have. If you have the sub-lingual, which melts under your tounge, take them when you get into bed. If you got tablets you swallow, take them 1 hour -30 mins before bed.

    Hope they work for you~ give it a few nights...a week if you can to really give it a shot.

    sweet dreams!

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Thanks Deidre and Twirlgirl...need to locate the time released kind. The sublinqual sounds great also. i wil try two of the 3mg tonight as it may be a little more potent. Thanks alot!!!!

    Sweet dreams!!!!

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2009

    Twirlgirl, I have a question about the melatonin and weird dreams.  In the past when I tried this, I had nightmares at a low dosage and didn't continue past a few days.  I had the same thing happen with Rozerom, which I later found out works in a similar way as melatonin.  So you're saying if I stick with it past a week the symptoms should go away?  I'm on the valium train and occasionally take Ambien if I know I have to be asleep by a certain time.  It would be great to do it naturally.  

    Another thing I tried a while back and will use occasionally is Seriphos, which is a combination of Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorus and L-Serine.  It seemed to help, but when I took it for a long period I felt sort of tired during the day.  

    Time to climb in bed!

    Tina 

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  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Hi Tina,

    My personal experience is that the weird dreams went away after about a week, I have also had many customers testify to this. So I do think it is worth giving Melatonin a 7-10 day trial and see how your body adjusts. Make sure your room is dark and I have found it helpful to not watch TV 1-2 hours before bed. Especially intense dramas, cop show, etc.

    I don't know the other supplement you mention. But just Cal-Ma should have no effects in the morning, so perhaps just try those alone. I cannot stress enough how different the Natural Calm product is...because it is a powder dissolved in hot water, it takes effect almost immediately...way sooner than a traditional hard tablet, which takes hours to break down. If you are taking Mag to help with sleep or to relax from stress. release muscle tension...the tablet is too slow. The straight Mag of Natural Calm is like nothing else.

    Sweet dreams, I hope!

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  • Dogmom7
    Dogmom7 Member Posts: 11
    edited February 2009

    I was so happy when I found out how to get a good night's sleep, even with breast reconstruction pain. 1 mg.of Xanax, an hour before I go to bed. I take it at no other time, just bedtime. It has worked wonders for me.

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Well it has been two nights NOT taking Ambien CR. I started with the Calm;s Forte and Melatonin ( taking 2 each). Still wake up  two or so times per night but feel less drugged in AM. Only has  been two nights and maybe this will all start working more as i do this. Still thinking on Nature;s Calm but already have  a potent calcium powder by Isotonix AND  take a natural magnesium tablet at PM. Checking to see if it would all agree for my system.

    dogmom.. love the pic@!! I am a dog mom too.... three senior Golden Retreivers!!!have been so good to me in my recovery process!! When I take Xanax i feel so yuky the next day.. you are soooo lucky it works for you. I am so sensitive to meds and Ambien worked for a while but the after math felt too drugged up. I JUST want my sleep back!!!Dread chemo as i know it will probably really affect my sleep!

    All the BEST,

    Donna

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  • priz47
    priz47 Member Posts: 470
    edited February 2009

    Donna,

    When do you start chemo? The worst part is the Decadron they give you. It hypes you up.Depending on your doc,depends on how much you get. I was lucky and only had it in my IV the day of chemo. That's when i really needed my Ambien!

    D

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  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    D... Not sure yet when chemo will be assigned.. should find out in a week or more. Have no idea of protocl as i will be viewing a tape and info will be all given then. As much as i want to get educated on what it will be, there is a part of me that justs wants to get thru the healing part and then deal with that part of my jounrey. Will keep all posted here when it is assigned!!!! Thaniks!!!!

    Healing Hugs,

    Donna

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  • qutypy
    qutypy Member Posts: 54
    edited February 2009

    I am 4 weeks post op, and I think the most I have slept at night was the first night home due to all the anesthesia I had (9 hours). Now I am so so sleep deprived. I don't know how to juggle all the pills. Use to take Benadryl so I could breathe when I lay down, and sometimes Tylenol for joint pain. I just got a script for Lunesta but what about the other things? I am so tired of watching every episode of Bridezilla at 3 in the morning!!!! will this ever get better?

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  • tami48
    tami48 Member Posts: 533
    edited February 2009

    qutypy, 

    I didn't sleep much either.  I would wake up several times a night or sleep for 3 hours and not be able to go back to sleep.  I started feeling like crap everyday!

    I tried Ambien, it would only keep me out for 2 to 3 hours.  I'm now on Lunesta and am sleeping much better.  I still have times where I wake up several times during the night or mornings when I wake up way too early, but I am definitely getting more sleep. 

    Hope the Lunesta works for you! 

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