I cannot sleep.

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  • WellWater
    WellWater Member Posts: 6,546
    edited February 2009

    Ok here's the name of the new natural relaxant that my dear friend has discovered and highly recommends:

    CALM'S FORTE

    This has been helping her lately and she's bugging me to get it.  Available at Walgreen's OTC.

    It's not expensive so maybe some can try it out.

    Sweet Dreams.....sigh......Trina

  • firstmate
    firstmate Member Posts: 410
    edited February 2009

    What ingredients does the Calm's Forte contain?

  • WellWater
    WellWater Member Posts: 6,546
    edited February 2009

    Really, I have no idea - I haven't bought it yet only passing on a recommendation from my friend who tries to do holistic and natural whenever she can.  I'll try to find out.

  • anna62
    anna62 Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2009

    Weird dreams ????  !!!!!  I am going to try my first dose tonight , thanks so much for writing back.

    Anna

  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
    edited February 2009

    I haven't slept well since my Dx 3 years ago..tried Ambian and Ambian CR, Lunesta, trazadone, temazapan (think thats what its called), and none are great. For the past year or so, I switch off between Ambian 10mg  and Ambian CR 12.5mg ...don't sleep more than 5 or so hours and some nights I wake up every hour or so...insomnia is one of the side effects of the AI's.  I stay up late so I don't wake up at 3am.  My pcp said to take the Ambian CR and if I wake up in the middle of the night, take a small dose of Ambian (mine is generic).  Have not done this yet, but need to.

  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Some people will have weird dreams on Melatonin, but they go away after a week or so. For sleep, here are some dose ideas:

    trouble falling asleep? take a sub-lingual (melts under tongue) 1-3mg

    trouble staying asleep? try a time-release, also 1-3

    for sleep, they say start melatonin at the smallest dose and see how it works. If you buy the 1mg's and its not enough, you can take 3.

    Melatonin as a breast cancer preventative /tumor shrinker has been tested for years in Europe. My naturpath doc has me on 20mg per night. I take that AND the 2.5 sub-lingual.

    Magnesium. Many people are deficient and women especially are often not getting all their calcium absorbed because they don't have enough Magnesium. I am never constipated and can take 650mg of powdered Natural Calm in water every night without a change in my bowels. Everyone is different, so you will need to experiment.

    Calm's Forte is a homeopathic, very mild, gentle safe. Even for kids. Works for some, but many with severe problems won't feel anything. Does nothing for me.

    I worked at a very good health food store in the vitamin/supplements section for 2 years, so I have alot of personal experience and feedback from customers on many things. Happy to offer my opinion on brands, etc. But I am not a medical professional. Your average medical professional knows nothing about supplements!

    Sleep is a complicated issue. Looking to the cause may be your best hope. If it is anxious thoughts and "monkey mind", then getting up and writing things down, bio-feedback and restorative yoga before bed will likely help.

    If it's hormone driven...that is chemical and figuring out how to adjust those body chemicals is the best best.

    Not eating 2 hours before bed and daily exercise will help no matter what the cause.

    I feel your pain, ladies. I have struggled with this for 12 years. When i lay down at night, the cancer goblins come in and tease my brain. The only thing that seems to chase them away is thinking about sex (I am single...sigh...and not dating) so I hope to fall asleep before they creep into my brain. i hope this will pass, the farther I get away from my BC experience.

  • LisaAlissa
    LisaAlissa Member Posts: 1,092
    edited February 2009

    Another approach to consider is so-called "bright light therapy."  It's hard to see a down-side (if you don't have eye problems).

    LisaAlissa 

  • nobleanna007
    nobleanna007 Member Posts: 641
    edited February 2009

    Anna,

          It is a small world. My husband is also a carpenter and The FireChief for Boothbay, poor guy he has had a tough year with me and then that major fire a Washburn!!!  plus they had the fire convention here in town in Sept. So it was a crazy year for him. We actually live on BartersIsland.

    I used to own a restraunt in town for 10 yrs called NO Anchovies. The last few years I have worked at China By The Sea. I had to give up my job due to all the SE I got and still have from this long road. I made it through th A/C and thought okay I can do this but the Abraxane and herceptin just gave me such bad nerve pain and I am still dealing with it. I have worked all my life and this drives me crazy. I have 7 more Herceptins to go if my Muga holds up which I have had major problems with. Then I am going to Boston for Reconstruction DIEP. I have always considered myself a strong person but this has brought me to my knees. Enough of me feeling sorry for myself.

         Yes St.Andrews is a dream hospital where else do they serve you Lobster Rolls!!!!!! It makes me so mad when people say stuff about the BandAide Hospital, its so insulting to that hospital cause they have always been on top of things with me or any family member and they transfer you right out if need be. My Son had Basilar Arterie Migrains which through him into stroke like seizures and I will tell you I don't know what I would have done without there help. And making sure he was stable enough to transfer him. See I go on and on sorry.

        Wilson Chapel is one of the prettiest places to get married!!!! I bet you have some beutiful photos!!! Ocean point is so relaxing I love going there by myself and just sit on the rocks it takes all the troubles away.

    When I took meletonin I took 2-3mg tablets not the extended release does not work as good. I hope this helps. I just got some MAG. and thanks to reading these posts I am in hopes it will help my leg and back issues.

                                          Take care and wishing you sweet-dreams!!!!

                                                         For Us All!!!!!

  • gramadeb
    gramadeb Member Posts: 210
    edited February 2009

    I can join the lack of sleep club. Diagnosed a year ago - started having some insomnia before but increased signifcantly after diagnosis. I have tried Ambien and Ambien CR and they allowed me to sleep for about 3-4 hours. Now when I take them I sleep walk and don't like that feeling - get up in the morning and find out what I did during the night that I don't remember!

    I was so fatigued all of the time that my onc ordered a sleep study and I found out I have sleep apnea so was never "really" sleeping. So now I have a CPAP machine which has helped the fatigue problem - when I sleep I am actually sleeping but I have trouble falling asleep and I don't stay asleep for more than a couple of hours. Respiratory doc ordered Rozerem (sp) which keeps me awake!!

     I have a lot of pain at night - AIs causing some but also have bursitis in both hips that is always worse at night. PCP ordered pain meds at request of respiratory doc but is concerned about me taking them too much. Respiratory doc says I should take pain meds every night along with sleeping aid. I am not comfortable doing that - feel like I am jumping from pill to pill!

     Xanax still works the best. I have tried Melatonin about 30 mins before Xanax and that seems to be a good combo.

    I just wish one night I could sleep for 6 -8 hours with no pain and no meds and wake up feeling great!!!

    Deb

  • artsee
    artsee Member Posts: 1,576
    edited February 2009

    Wow and I thought Iwas the only one not sleeping. It must be a whole combination of things that are causing this. From meds to anxiety. Just when we NEED our sleep and rest. I woke up at 12:45 a.m. this morning and that was it for me. My Doc gave me some Ambien, which I'll try tonight. It's 6 p.m. and I'm tired already. Unfortunately reading these posts it looks like it doesn't work for too many ladies here. Three hours is the longest I've ever slept in a row and then it's every hour looking at the clock. UGH! That gets old real fast. The lack of sleep in turn gives me painful back spasms because my bodies in a knot fromnot sleeping. Oh the joys.I don't know what I'd do if I ever slept 6 or 8 hours. I'll probably think I died or something. Hope you all find good rest eventually,

    Artsee

  • mzmiller99
    mzmiller99 Member Posts: 894
    edited February 2009

    artsee - Ain't it the truth?  I'm so tired that I can't wait to go to bed, but once I get there, I can feel myself getting anxious, because I know that there's not much chance I'll actually sleep.Frown Rats.

    Susan

  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited February 2009

    Twirlgirl you mentioned :

    Magnesium. Many people are deficient and women especially are often not getting all their calcium absorbed because they don't have enough Magnesium. I am never constipated and can take 650mg of powdered Natural Calm in water every night without a change in my bowels. Everyone is different, so you will need to experiment.

    What is 650mg of powdered Natural Calm? is it magnesium, calcium or something else? I am looking for calcium in a form that may not contribute to constipation---have reduced iron in the multi vitamin which has helped, but I think calcium is also part of the problem. Really need to get calcium and am starting to look into other options besides the food store.  Any ideas?

  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 6,503
    edited February 2009

    I saw my doc today and she is going to have me take the Ambian CR  with 1/2 tab regular Ambian (if this does not work, try whole tab ambian) at bedtime...if I wake up in the middle of the night, take an Ativan. I not only don't sleep well, I have trouble falling asleep.  If I don't take anything, it is awful..three nights ago, I watched the clock every hour with the Ambian CR, thn the next night I was having such horrid night sweats, that kept me awake, then last night sleep was decent, though not enough hours.  Doc feels that if we can solve the sleep issues, it wil really help with mood and cognition.  I feel like I am a pharmacy and taking enough sleeping  aids to knock a horse out..but I need my "beauty rest"!!!

    EWB...my pcp prefers Tums Ultra for calcium..she says it helps with the stomach, but I did not ask her about constipation...I haven't taken it as the thought of chewing them bothers the heck out of me..just can't get past the taste.  I take psyllium (fiber), stool softeners and Miralax..without these I am miserable...oh what fun this journey is!!!

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Karen..  I know what a jounrey indeed!! i am goin on three weeks post op and still cannot sleep with out taking ether a 1/2 xanax or a Ambien CR. I have always had issues with constipation and take magnesium and some Fiber Smart powder from the health food store. The anxiety is my issue with this whole ordeal and usually happens at night.

    I will need chemo and will imagine sleep will be a issue during this process also. I was on a customized melatonin creme and my oncologist said to get off this creme as it is considered a hormone. The creme worked for me and liked it . But if it could interfere with  the upcoming chemo, i am obeying her!

    Praying we can get some restful nights and consistently!!

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    EWB Calcium does indeed cause constipation. It should always be taken with magnesium, which is a natural laxitive. In fact, after my uncle had open heart surgery, he was having a lot of very uncomfortable constipation. I got him a powder from the vitamin shoppe that is basically vit c and magnesium. It tastes like bitter lemons, but if you mix it with some OJ it is not bad and one or two of those is a great natural laxitive. I can' t remember the name of this stuff, but just ask them what the mag C stufff is that tastes like lemons and they will know. It is also a great colon cleanser. My doctor recommended I use it to clean the colon out, which is a great thing to do after treatments. You take a tbls in juice every hour for 3-4 hours until everything comes out clear. Not fun, but it works.

    Also, unless you are very enemic, bc survivors should not take any supplement with iron. Iron has been shown to feed tumors. Unless one is pregnant or nursing, we should be getting enough in a healthy diet.

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    Donna, I would get another opinion on the melatonin during chemo. I took it during rads, and my doctors did not seem to object. Yes, it is a hormone, but it is shown to actually prevent cancer, not cause it. It is much safer to take a natural sleep aid than a chemical to help you sleep.

  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    EWB~ Natural Calm is pure Magnesium powder. Very gentle and excellent quality. It naturally relaxes you, your bowels (for some people) and helps with anxiety and sleep problems. Not enough to solve everything for everyone, but safe to use with other things. Get it online or at a health food store. For another calcium source, Garden of Life brand makes a really good powered Calcium that is all food sourced. It is thought to be more easily absorbed by the body that other forms of Calcium, which is basically crushed coral or rock (it is a mineral after all) Take them together at bedtime with your vit-D and not with any dairy products.

    Donna~ There are dozens of studies and clinical trials in done in Europe on high dose (20mg-50mg) of melatonin for preventing breast cancer, shrinking tumors and helping support the body during treatment rads, chemo...I was prescribed this by my naturpath do who specializes in BC when I began rads last year. Most onc's are not aware because they don't do complementary medicine.

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Vivre  and twirlgirl.. totally agree about the melatonin and got so confused as the oncoloigist tells me I need chemo and then get off of the melatonin as they are not aware of it as most naturpath;s do. I am goin to go back to it after a period of time as IF I am with this DR., i want to do it her way..FOR NOW!

    I am all for the natural versus chemicals and just want this all over so I can get back to restoring and rebuidling. The chemo part is just scary to me and not looking forward to it.

    Thanks for the great info!!!

  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited February 2009

    Ok ladies- I know this thread is about sleeping (or lack there of) but you all seem so knowledgable so....

    where is a good place to find out about vitamins, supplements, interactions w/meds. I am on hormonal therapy and never off treatment so I am unsure about things that are good for after treatment (ie: cleanese), how much calcium, how much mag (I thought that was in calcium pills I was taking along w/ vit D), how much vit D etc. I am on pain meds (main culpret I suspect), femara, blood pressure meds, anti depressant .... How did you learn all this, find a trusted source/resource etc.

    THANKS, sweet dreams to all tonight

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    Donna, one of the best books I read while going though treatments was by Dr. Ray Strand,
    "What your doctor doesn't know about nutrition may be killing you"

    You can read some of it on his website.

    He talks a lot about the lack of doctor training in nutrition and supplements and cites many cases where people did better on chemo by adding supplements. He says that they keep the good cells strong while they do not help cancer cells to survive, which is what most doctors are led to believe. I believe that I came through rads with very little burning and no fatique because I exercised daily, ate well and took some supplements, including melatonin. I had a hard time sleeping, and I felt it was better to use something natural than something chemical.

  • jader
    jader Member Posts: 223
    edited February 2009

    OMG-Well Water, I was just going to suggest Calm's Forte!! 

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    EWB, I am really feeling great a year after treatments. I started reading constantly during treatments on good health, every book I could find about prevention of breast cancer. I also found a great chiropractor who is a guru with nutrition and supplements, when my doctors offered no help. They have one nutrittionist in the onc department, who has group seminars but I wanted it to be more personal. This chiro helped me tremendously. I lost 35 lbs, just by choosing healthy foods and daily exercise. She does blood tests to make sure  I am getting the proper nutrition. I also keep reading and reading. I find that books are my incentive. They reinforce good health and keep me motivated to keep it up, not to mention the fact that I look and feel better than I did before. Good luck!

  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited February 2009

    Thanks Vivre, really appreciate your input!

    Anyone have suggestions on how to find gurus vs quacks? I am probably overly concerned, but I am so afraid of taking things or combining things that will be harmful.

  • priz47
    priz47 Member Posts: 470
    edited February 2009

    Are you not supposed to take Magnesium with dairy??? I take mine with milk every evening. And it is a laxative for me!

    D

  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Priz47 ~dairy is not supposed to be taken with Calcium, that I know.

  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    EWB~ like Virve, I have been reading like a mad woman since my dx. But I have to say, I grew up with health nut parents and for my whole adult life 20+ years, have always studied nutrition and supplements on my own. Then I worked in a great store selling them and went to many trainings and learned alot from my customers as well.

    A book I use as reference I think is worth every penny (about $30) and I use it often, is Healthy Healing by Linda Page. she is a Naturopath doctor. It is very comprehensive. Many larger health food stores have an info kiosk with a computer system that allows you to search a huge data base for specific supplements, aliments and will give info on potential interactions between meds and supplements. Will also tell you what foods might interact with supplements and make them less effective. Call around in your area and see what store has one of those.

    As to finding a guru, not a quack...well I found my cancer-specific Naturopath from my surgeon's office staff, actually. Sometimes there is a nurse or patient's advocate that does referrals for other things like support groups, etc. They sent me to a great place for complementary care.

    Where do you live? I am part of an online community for healthy living and healing that also has lots of resources. If you go there and join (its free, like this site) you can post a question and anyone who lives in your state will chime in with info to help you find someone good. It's truely a wonderful, welcoming community. Here is the web address:

    www.my.crazysexylife.com

     And on the Magnesium, its is often in your Cal-Mag_VitD mixes, but not enough Mag. And if you want to help with sleep, the Natural Calm is so quick to take effect. More Mag is not going to be bad for you, it will help your Calcium absorb better.

    best wishes~

  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited February 2009

    Thanks for all this great info- I have started a notebook just to list website, suggested books and other things I want to check into (I keep forgeting info and leads I pick up!). I had signed up for Crazysexy, but haven't spent much time there, guess now is the time. THANKS

    Elaine

  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Elaine~ If you go on craxysexy, look me up and say hi!

    I'm Tay. Smile

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Thanks vivre..  WILL get the book. I am so darn confiused and yet I know all the natural way is best. Reading the book by Patick Quillian on Beating Cancer with Nutrition. Also goin to try to get Calm's Forte as i sent back the Melatonin creme already out of confusion. I do take natural Magnesium and works for my not having constipation. Also take a powder calcium that is quite good by Isotonix. Need to figure out what supplements to take during chemo?!

    Which is better..Natural Calm Forte's for sleep?! Been taking Ambien CR and i know how bad that is to do!!!!!

    Thanks for the support here!!!!!

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

     I just ordered the Calm's Forte!!! How many should I start with and how long before bed if anyone can suggest?! Can Natural Calm be takened with this as well ?

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