I cannot sleep.

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I cannot sleep anymore.  Even with Ambien or Ambien CR, the most sleep I have gotten at night for weeks (months?) is 4 hours.  I feel so sleep deprived, and feel it is contributing to my depression.  I have started meditation and yoga, with no results as yet.

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  • anna62
    anna62 Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2009

    Hi there

    I know exactly how you feel !!!!!!!!!!!!  You are absolutely correct it does contribute to your depression.  Lets see, Restoril, Remeron, Lunesta, Ambien, none of them worked.  I began seeing a therapist and she suggested journaling, I would lie in bed and my mind would race, I couldn't shut my brain off.  The jounaling gave me the opportunity to take all these thoughts out of my head and physically put them on paper. My family Dr. also recommened exercise, that has helped too.  I acutally have begun dreaming again, I hadn't had a dream in two months.  I hope this helps, don't give up on meds the Restoril did help for a while, it got me a couple of nights of sleep which made me feel like a new person.  I wish you luck = - )

    Anna

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited February 2009

    Lunesta is the only sleep medication that works for me, and I take it every night.  I tried Abien and Trazodone and neither worked for. 

    Lack of sleep is so debilitating to us mentally, emotionally and physically.

    Ask your doctor to recommend another medication for you.

    Best wishes,

    Bren

  • twirlgirl
    twirlgirl Member Posts: 212
    edited February 2009

    Hi firstmate...I am so sorry you can't sleep and I feel your pain. I struggle with sleep too. A few tricks you might try that are all safe to combine with a sleep med:

    1) take Magnesium before bed. I use a pure powder called "Natural Calm" that you dissolve in hot water. Take about 1 hour before bed. Buy at a health food type store or online.

     2) Be sure you are taking your B-Vitamins early in the day. If you don't take them ~start! The B's are critical for our bodies to manage stress. And since I started taking extra B-12, which helps with metabolism and sleep, I am sleeping without sleep meds. I like Jarrow brand best because they use a better absorbed form of B-12, look for the form that starts with Methyl~

    3) Small dose of Melatonin, I use the one that melts under your tongue, so it kicks in quick. 2.5mg by Nature's Way. 

    4) Turn off all TV, computers 2 hours before bed.

    5) I second what Anna said about journal ling. Getting all the racing thoughts out on paper can help you let go enough to fall asleep ~.

    All this is what my naturapath doctor recommended. There are lots of reasons why people can't sleep but they all add up to the same crappy result.  Be sure to see a doctor about this, it is serious.

    Peace, healing and hopefully sweet dreams~

    Tay

  • BFidelis
    BFidelis Member Posts: 156
    edited February 2009

    I agree about nutrition and exercise (not that I'm very saintly about it).  In fact, just started my swimming (1/2 mile 3x/week) and hubby swears he can tell the diff.  (But I know he would exagerate the truth to encourage me.)  But here's another one you might try...

    Write yourself a dream.  When you lie down in bed, start 'constructing' a dream.  Who you are, where, what time in history.  Think through your story; if you're a 17th century european princess, what does your castle look like?  Get detailed.  Every room.  Very often if you keep working the details, the next thing you know is you're waking up because your 'story' pushed aside some of the other brain crap for a while.  Also, your last thoughts before actually drifiting off are pleasant things of your own design, not a recollection of the terrible thing your co-worker said.  This is my deliberate fantasy life; it goes EXACTLY as I plan it.  It's weird, but it helps me.  Other than that, get an college level Economics textbook.  (I never could make it past p.3 before the book would be on the floor & I'd be snoring.) Wink

    Beth

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited February 2009

    I'm sure everyone is different.  What often works for me is to use biofeedback (relaxation).  I thought I'd be the world's worst learner, because I'm dreadful at meditation.  I went to a cognitive psychologist, and learned how to relax, muscle group by muscle group. 

    For me its more helpful than Benadryl, and even has worked better than Valium.

    It has helped me become more aware of my body - noticing more when it is tense and when it is relaxed. (I have PTSD, or something close to that.)

    I think exercise also helps (if its a while before you go to sleep).  I'm going to have to try that 'write yourself a dream' - sounds like an interesting technique.

  • firstmate
    firstmate Member Posts: 410
    edited February 2009

    Thanks for all the feedback.  I'll let you know what works.  Sweet dreams!

  • jader
    jader Member Posts: 223
    edited February 2009

    I heard if you take melatonin, you want to make sure to have a completely dark room.  No light from the clock either, cover it up.

    xoxo

  • mzmiller99
    mzmiller99 Member Posts: 894
    edited February 2009

    I'm Ok going to sleep...usually, but I wake up somewhere between 2:00 and3:00 AM, and have an awful time getting back to sleep.  Sometimes, it's like dreaming awake...I'm drifting off into a dream, but I'm not  truly asleep. 

     The extended release Ambien seemed to work, but I got so frustrated with the insurance company run-around, that I finally settled for a generic that's not extended release.  It doesn't work.  Go figure.

  • firstmate
    firstmate Member Posts: 410
    edited February 2009

    Amien CR is outrageously expensive and it did not work for me any better than regular Ambien. Total waste of money in my opinion.

  • WellWater
    WellWater Member Posts: 6,546
    edited February 2009

    My sleep pattern is also terribly screwed up so I know your frustration.  One thing that has been some help for me when I wake up at 2 or 3am and cannot go back to sleep is to turn on the radio and keep it very low.....I listen to National Public Radio - voices are modulated and no commercials ar played so sound is low pitch.  It's almost like having someone read a story to you.  Might sound weird but give it a try sometime - I find that at least I can often drift in and out of sleep and that's better than laying there wide awake.

    Ambien did not work for me and now my old standard Dalmane doesn't seem to do the trick either...... ugh.  Sweet dreams.....

  • Bee54
    Bee54 Member Posts: 354
    edited February 2009

    I just had my bi-lateral mx the 2/3 and since then i can't sleep well either, I get so tired, I go to sleep easy, then every few minutes I wake up, then back to sleep, this goes on all night, till real early in the morning ( 5:15 a.m. this morning), and I just have to get up. I don't take naps during the day and I am still on some pain meds. Just don't know what's causing it. My surgery went real well, and I don't hardly have any pain, never have, so I am one of the lucky ones, just don't know what's bothering me. Well thanks for letting me vent. Hugs to all

  • anna62
    anna62 Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2009

    What is up with this 2 am thing OMG !!!  If I wake up in the middle of the night, which is pretty regularly, I know that if I look at the clock it will be exactly 2 am !!!  Soooooo weird Yell  Wellwater that NPR suggestion was great, it would be like someone reading you to sleep.  Bee54 are you taking Vicodan for pain, sometimes that can effect your sleep patterns. 

    Peace to you all

    Anna

  • mzmiller99
    mzmiller99 Member Posts: 894
    edited February 2009

    First Mate - I have to agree, even with insurance, it was $40, and I may as well have been asking for crack cocaine for all I had to go through to get it!!

    Maybe bio feedback would work if I could figure out how to concentrate for more than 2 minutes!Undecided

  • Analemma
    Analemma Member Posts: 1,622
    edited February 2009

    Here's what I do for my chronic insomnia:

    Magnesium -Natural Calm brand

    warm milk with a little sugar and vanilla

    Lunesta, 2 mg (used to take Ambien CR but new insurance won't cover it)

    melatonin, 15 mg

    benedryl, 1 little tab

    Yes, I've had sleep issues all my life and now that I have mets I'm not going to try to be good and stay off drugs.  I used to take trazadone, which is generic and way cheap, but it doesn't do it for me any more.  Ambien CR used to work pretty well by itself, but Lunesta doesn't do much without the added melatonin and benadry.

  • anna62
    anna62 Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2009

    mzmiller99

    LOL  crack cocaine !!!!  That was so true, how about the looks you get from the pharmacist when you pick up yet another new med for sleep or anxiety.  I went through so many different meds, my pain meds and anxiety meds also meds for sleep, god what they must have been thinking at the pharmacy.  I am a nurse and I know what is said,   I went in to drop off a script and the customary question is "have you ever filled a prescriptin here?"  she looked at my script and said " oh yes we have seen you many times haven't we ?"  no smile either.  I wanted to cringe, I have always been a very healthy person.  Thanks for the laugh.

    Anna

  • firstmate
    firstmate Member Posts: 410
    edited February 2009

    Man, that is so true.  I feel the same way.  I am embarrassed to fill my presciptions.  The pharmacy must think I am a pscho.  And when I travel (even for the day), I have this whole stash of drugs I have to take with me.  I am always afraid the cops are going to stop me and think I am a druggie.

  • DonnaDio
    DonnaDio Member Posts: 905
    edited February 2009

    Can relate to this post totally!!!t is goin on three weeks since surgery and have been on AmbienCR since the regular Ambien did wake me up around 1 or 2 AM for the night!!! This part is the hardest part of the journey.  I seem to be ok for the day time part, but night time,my anxiety gets worse and almost dread goin to sleep!!! I have been on Celexa for some time as i have always had general anixety but thru excericse and yoga it was ok.

    Not knowing what is next, for me chemo, no regualr routine as i still have my surgical drains in .. all contribute to someone who was a Type A personality to someone with  very little in actiivity as healing is still occurring. I am not sure what happens staying on Ambien, but i need something and then when chemo hits., i am sure i am goin to look like a druggie to the pharmacist!!!!! I too  Anna   have been a healthy person, so i have my husband go so i don;t get the LOOK!!!lololol!!!  Thanks for the laugh cause sleep deprived not fun!!!

    Good luck to you all and thanks for being here!!!!

  • cp418
    cp418 Member Posts: 7,079
    edited February 2009

    Add me to the club.  I've tried 12 mg of Melatonin and it only works for a few hours.  Then I'm wide awake and its monkey brain - - I just can't settle down.  I've been avoiding prescription medications as I fear the side effects.  I realize much of the situation is due to my bc and stress over work.  I do daily walks and physical work (clean barn daily).  It's not helping me sleep and my stomach is suffering plus depression.  I need to find something to help without causing other problems.

  • Shirlann
    Shirlann Member Posts: 3,302
    edited February 2009

    Hi sisters, I am an old time depressive/anxiety attack veteran.  Waking up at 2 to 4am and having a terrible time returning to sleep is SOOOO COMMON, it is actually a marker for depression.

    What to do?  I take one 5mg Valium.  My doc is fine with this, and I am back asleep in no time.  I have the Valium and water right by my bed, and sometimes, knowing I can take care of this, I sleep through.

    So you might consider this, or Xanax.

    Gentle hugs, Shirlann

  • EWB
    EWB Member Posts: 2,927
    edited February 2009

    How sad that so many have problems sleeping or with pain or both; even worse are the judgements we feel when trying to manage these problems.  Having cancer is scarey enough, frightening enough, stressful enough without "help" from others. One would think that by looking at the scripts, someone in a pharmacy would understand why a doctor would be having a pt on them! 

    So much for a caring society, thinking before speaking, not rushing to conclusions.

    Sorry for the rant ladies, and negative thoughts, guess I'm a bit off today.

    Pray sweet dreams for everyone tonight.

  • Isabella4
    Isabella4 Member Posts: 2,166
    edited February 2009

    I have had a terrible time with sleep well before bc.....in fact for years I have had to take a Temazepam tablet each night, just to get me off. I have to sign the poisons register just to get the damned tablets out of the pharmacy, and quite often I get a new pharmacist who has to bellow and ask me to 'come on over and sign the poisons register'....I have been known to hovver about pretending to look at things on the shelves, so I can dash up when a familiar pharmacist is at the counter !!  One tablet gives me about 2 hours sleep.

    I found it helps to make the bedroom as warm and comfortable as you can. Like Wellwater, I have my radio on permanently, turned down low. We have a programe called The World Service, I know you can pick it up in USA, very interesting world current affairs programe....I am hooked, and nearly always when something comes on that is interesting, I fall asleep !

    DH moved out years ago, he NEEDS his sleep, and isn't likely to get any in my bedroom! I read, knit, anything to stop me just laying there trying to fall asleep. I used to have tv and music on as well, but have given that up as I find it was keeping me awake more than letting me sleep. 

    On an average night I will get about 4 hours. I suffer next day as I am a zombie until mid-day, ratty with everyone, don't like anyone to speak to me, and certainly won't speak to anyone on the 'phone, or answer the doorbell !

    My father always used to go up for a nap at 2pm, when he retired, he slept 'til 4pm, and always said it was the only way he could catch up on his sleep. I have tried this, and it works fine for me, I can actually sleep, and feel better for it, but the moans and groans about being lazy, from DH , got to me, so I don't do this anymore now, only when he is out for the day !!

    Isabella.

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    The reason we have trouble sleeping going through all this is not just the fact that we are dealing with a lot emotionally. It is because our hormones are so low. In fact low progesterone levels have a lot to do with the fact that we wake up a lot. It is not good to take a lot of chemical sleep aids. I read somewhere(but dang I can't remember) that they could actually feed estrogen driven breast cancers. Most doctors do not even know this when they recommend them.I do what twirl girl does and it makes a huge difference. Magnesium is a natural sleep aid and the melatonin is also one of the best antioxidants we can be taking for prevention. When I started taking these supplements before bedtime, I finally stopped waking up every two hours. I also do what Beth recommends about making up stories. When I try this I go to sleep right away. My stories are really boring I guess! LOL

  • nobleanna007
    nobleanna007 Member Posts: 641
    edited February 2009

    Hi everyone,

       I see some familar names and some new ones. Like all of you I have had a problem with sleep but usually if I took 2 meletonin I could sleep to at least 6:00 But now since I am on pain meds and they threw me into menapause I can't sleep. Like the rest of you they have tried the new ones but still no relief. I finally figured out one that worked Trazadone& 2 clonzapam's will do it. I actually got so sick from the bone pain and lack of sleep I was hospitalized for 2 days and they just let me sleep. And our small hospital in town is like a hotel so it was awsome!!!!!

    Anna62- I noticed your from Maine also we are very close I live in Boothbay Harbor! Nice to meet you!

                                                      Bridget

    P.S. Wishing everyone a Good-Night Sleep!!!!!! 

  • priz47
    priz47 Member Posts: 470
    edited February 2009

    I have been on Ambien for 3 months now. I t is not working like it used to and I am wondering if my body is used to it. How much Melatonin should one take? I have been taking Magnesiumfor leg cramps and those are gone now. I cannot turn my mind off.  I would prefer something natural, but do need to sleep.

    It is irritating to see DH on couch at 8:00pm sound asleep!

    D

  • hollyann
    hollyann Member Posts: 2,992
    edited February 2009

    try Lunesta///i had to take that after Ambien stopped for me

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited April 2011

    I'm an inpatient (i.e. hospital) pharmacist (graveyard shift) for over 20 years, and I know what you mean about getting those looks.

    When I had prophylactic neck surgery (2 vertebrae fusion + plate), I found out how much pain meds other symptomatic people get  (from looking at support groups), and was amazed.  Pharmacists do have a role, a double check.  But  I have had some outpatient experiences where the outpatient pharmacist was definitely not thinking (to put it politely.)

    Your pharmacist normally does not know the entire picture.  But they do have a lot of regulations they must follow, many of which make no/little sense. 

    I am sure with me (if they noticed) that isn't it a bit strange to get a prescription for Norvasc (amlodipine), normally used for blood pressure, or chest pain - from a  dermatologist???  But I have a very unusual disease - scleroderma- and my doc definitely knows what she is doing.

    I always get these depression warnings with my sertraline prescription - I bet they have little idea I have PTSD.

  • WellWater
    WellWater Member Posts: 6,546
    edited February 2009

    Perhaps drs should put your diagnosis on your script so the Pharmacists and their assistants don't give you the raised eyebrows.  I had a script for Darvocet and you'd have thought I was asking for cocaine.  I finally said to the gal "look, I have cancer, I have pain, if this is too much for you, give me back the script and I'll go somewhere else".  She turned red and stumbled over her words but they seemed to stop glancing sideways.

    Leaf, my friend has scleroderma and is conquering the disease - she had to turn to a holistic dr when traditional failed her and she is doing so well it's amazing.  Different things work for diferent people, I'm so happy that you are doing well with it also.

    I also want to throw in a suggestion to keep your bedroom cool - that works best for me.  If it's warm, I keep waking up even before my usual 2am wake up!

    A friend mentioned a new natural sleep aid but I need to talk to her again and get the correct name - she bought it at Walgreens and said it was very inexpensive and seems to be working better on her than other aids.  I'll post later in the day with that info.

  • artsee
    artsee Member Posts: 1,576
    edited February 2009

    Hi, I've been having sleep issues all my life but after this years journey it is really over the top. Because of the stress of BC our muscles are always in a state of being "clenched". This keeps us from relaxing at night. It has gotten to the point where I Have been having abdominal and low back spasms. So now the soreness is another issue that's keeping me from sleeping. My Onco had me go off of Amitryptiline which I was taking for chronic back pain. This relaxed me in the evening and was able to get good sleep. I wish I had it back.Undecided

    Artsee

  • anna62
    anna62 Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2009

    Bridget

    Hi there, my brother is a permanent fixture in Boothbay, he is a carpenter and when I am in Boothbay and I can't find him I just go to the East Boothbay General Store and ask them where's Muzzy today and sure enough they know where he is.  Don't you just love small towns?  St Andrew's is a nice hospital, what did they have three patients in the hospital while you were there ?  My husband actually worked in the ER there for a couple of summers, and........I was married at Wilson Memorial Chapel in Ocean Point !  Small world = ) 

    Vivre What is the dosage of the Magnesium ????  I bougth that and some melatonin today please let me know , thanks.

    Anna

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 2,167
    edited February 2009

    Anne, I take a mineral multi from Vitamin Shoppe at dinner that contains:

    1000mg calcium

    150mcg iodine

    500 mg magnesium

    50 mg selenium

    200 IU vit. D etc. etc.

    Magnesium is also a natural laxative so unless you are having problems in that area, do not take more. LOL Also, mag and cal supposedly absorb better together.

    As for the melatonin. I needed to try different amounts until I found what worked for me. Remember it does not do much if the room is not dark and if you take too much, you might have some weird dreams! I figure it must be tapping into my creative subconscious. :)

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