biological features affect staging?

Mamie2
Mamie2 Member Posts: 108

Ladies. This is really bothering me. I havent yet been officially staged. Has anyone out there had a lump that is somewhat affixed to the chest wall? Did this affect your staging? Does having lympho vascular features affect staging as well?  I have had no treatment, except surgery of course... I feel like I'm racing against time.

Thanks for your time. 

Comments

  • Mamie2
    Mamie2 Member Posts: 108
    edited February 2009

    Whew!!!

    I just received an email from my medical oncologist, who conferred with my surgeon today. They decided (and please let it be the right decison!) that the cancer hadn't invaded the chest wall, and that I was a T2.3, staging at lla. Finally. Feel better about that, if you can feel better at all in our situations.... 

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited February 2009

    Mamie, it looks like you already have your answer.  I'm sorry no one responded to your post here on these boards.

    Yes, the biological features of the tumor can affect the staging.  According to the staging information on the American Cancer Society website, a tumor that has invaded the chest wall is considered Stage IIIB even if there are no positive lymph nodes.  "Lymphovascular invasion" within the tumor does not count in the staging, though.

    Most of the staging is based on the size of the tumor, the number of positive lymph nodes (if any), and evidence of metastasis to distant sites.  Since your tumor had not spread to your nodes and your surgeon and pathologist decided it had not invaded your chest wall, your staging appears to be based on the size of the tumor.  A tumor that is larger than 2 cm in diameter, but not larger than 5 cm, is a "T2" tumor and is Stage IIA unless there are positive nodes.

    You've received good news.  BTW, I don't know what the decimal number ".3" means after the T2.

    otter

  • Mamie2
    Mamie2 Member Posts: 108
    edited February 2009

    Hi Otter.

    I had a diagnostic lumpectomy by a plastic surgeon on 12/10 who excised a 2cm tumor. But when the breast surgeon re-excised the cavity to ensure there was wider margins and to do the SNB, he found two smaller lesions in the margins measuring .15 cm, and also found some DCIS. My med onco described my T factor as 2.3 cm total. My sis is a 20 year stage lv bc survivor, and when i get the energy up, i should get her profile on the bc survivor thread. She is a remarkable miracle, saved by a research program using bone marrow transplant (self) (1993) when she had bone mets. She has had recurrences, which her doc is totally on top of and slaughters every time it raises its ugly head. I have chosen a different team, however, but may go to her if I ever want a second opinion. Thanks for your kind response!! I see you are just diagnosed. How are you doing? 

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited February 2009

    Mamie, I was dx'd a year ago.  I had a mastectomy & sentinel node biopsy (without reconstruction) on Feb. 5, so I've almost reached my 1-year anniversary for that.  Then I found out, based on Oncotype DX testing, that my tumor was a bit more aggressive than anyone expected.  So I did 4 rounds of chemo (Taxotere & Cytoxan), finishing up in early June.  Now I'm taking Arimidex, an aromatase inhibitor that's supposed to be good at starving ER+ tumors of the estrogen they desire.  I've been on Arimidex for more than 7 months, with only a few SE's.

    All-in-all, I'm doing pretty well, thanks.   What's in store for you, now that you have the path results?

    otter 

  • Mamie2
    Mamie2 Member Posts: 108
    edited February 2009

    Otter,

    See my post here: http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/96/topic/728386?page=1#idx_5. I'm hoping to do a short course of rads, and then Arimidex. Onco score is not in yet, and will be delayed because pathology had to ask the originating hospital to send tissue. My breast cancer doc only got slides, and they ran out of enough to send. Can you believe the things that can happen? 

    Hey, Otter, how are you going to celebrate your 1st yr new lease on life surgery??? Wow. I never thought I'd be saying that to anyone. However, we can live with this stuff. Look at my sister Kitty. 20 years!!

    Ok. Got to sleep.

    Nite nite.

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited February 2009

    Ahah.  So, you're waiting to find out if you'll need chemo...

    Sounds so familiar.  Nobody thought I would need chemo, with a 1.8 cm ER+ HER2- tumor.  My Oncotype DX score said otherwise.  My score was 26 (17% risk of distant recurrence even with tamoxifen), and two oncos recommended chemo for me.

    There was a problem with my Oncotype testing, too.  Because of dawdling on the part of my onco #1 and the path department, it took a month for them to get the samples in the mail to Genomic Health.  Then 2 wks later we found out the samples contained "inadequate tumor" for testing--the path tech had cut them from the wrong tissue block, apparently.  So, by 6 wks past surgery, I still had no Oncotype results.  I blew a gasket and called every patient ombudsman-type person I could think of.  They re-cut the samples (and checked to be sure it was the right block this time), sent them to Genomic Health, and ... 10 days later I got a call with the results.

    Chemo wasn't so bad.  Okay, yes, it was bad--but it was do-able, and I don't regret having done it, even for an instant.

    How will I celebrate?  I've been celebrating all along.  My hair is growing back like crazy (crazy curls of course), I feel fine, my rechecks have been fine ... and if it wasn't for these nagging memories of awful stuff that interrupted my life in 2008, I would think it all happened to someone else in a movie I saw.

    otter 

  • 07rescue
    07rescue Member Posts: 168
    edited February 2009

    Hi Mamie

    My tumor was also right on the chest wall, so I explicitly asked my breast surgeon to "err on the side of taking too much" and go into the chest wall if she had any sense it might be necessary. She did exactly as I requested, and got substantial clean margins as a result. I had a "tiny" (in her report) degree of lymphovascular invasion outside the 9 mm tumor, which was otherwise surrounded by very dense fibrous tissue, so that made me doubly glad we cut deeply enough to get those great clean margins. I feel totally assured we did not miss anything. I have a very small dent where we cut deeply, and it seems 100% worthwhile for my peace of mind.

    So far I have not had local radiation to the chest wall, but a report out of the recent San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposiun did report some evidence that local rads could confer greater protection from local recurrence, even after a mastectomy, which I opted for. Rads will increase risk of lymphedema, so I personally have decided to avoid requesting the treatment, at least until I get better evidence that the protective value outweighs the risk of lymphedema.

    I wish you the very best of luck with your treatment, and I am so glad you at least received an official staging, and can get on with the business of deciding treatment. I hope making progress and getting a response from your doctor at least helps you feel something effective can now be accomplished.

    Please let us know how things are going!!! I don't get to post often here, but I read extensively and love to know how people are doing, both the good news and the bad, it's all welcome here.

    :) 

  • Mamie2
    Mamie2 Member Posts: 108
    edited February 2009

    gosh, thanks rescue and otter. Its Feb 16, and still no treatment in sight. I went in last week for a MammoSite Balloon fitting, which is no small ordeal...(the bright side is it was like a huge aspiration of fluids).... The skin measurement between the outside layer of skin and the cavity needs to be 7mm -MAYbe 5mm in some places, but mine was 4 and 3mm the whole way across. Kinda makes me wonder what this little breast is going to look like after all is healed. I'm wondering what I should do next? Will I need more time to heal from the balloon insertion and pulling before radiation? Should I seek reconstruction now if I want it? I'm spending time in the Alternative Medicine thread, and that has my head spinning...

    You two sound like you're doing well! 

  • Maryiz
    Maryiz Member Posts: 975
    edited February 2009

    Mamie2, don't worry about what your breast will look like when they are done with their dicing and slicing.  You have so many options for reconstruction, and I believe there are more on the horizon now that they have successfully grown breast tissue.  Hang in there, sweetie.  You will look great.  As a matter of fact, I love your avatar now.  

    By the way, did your sister have any problems with Graft versus Host disease when she did her transplant?  I would love to know any down side in case I have to go down that road.  Thanks, Mamie.  Maryiz 

  • Mamie2
    Mamie2 Member Posts: 108
    edited February 2009

    Thanks Maryiz, that pic was taken in Sept or Oct. before my diagnosis...

    Re: protocol - I was just trying to figure out the best route for everything concerned....the fact that I usually live out of the country on a small island, monetarily, etc. But i think you're right. What is my rush? I need to just get well. Today, I received an email reply from the Gerson clinic. I asked them if I could come to them after my treatments..to learn the Gerson lifestyle, so that I could live more health-ily!!! The reply I got was this: . "Thank you for your interest in the Gerson Therapy.  I would recommend that you seriously consider embarking on the Gerson Therapy rather than
    take any chemotherapy.  If you choose to start chemotherapy, you would not be able to start the therapy until after you complete it and you would have to start at a modified level."

    There was more, but that was the gist of it, and then they asked me if I had read Charlotte Gerson's book, etc. etc. Has anyone heard of this??? I dont know what to do.

    Maryiz - Kitty said she didn't have any problem with Graft versus Host disease.... but both of us aren't sure it applies to her case. She had to harvest her own baby blood stem cells (Dec 1993), and frozen until ready for use several months later, in 1994.

    We went to see her doctor in Pittsburgh yesterday. Her symptoms now are just that her hip joint is deteriorated from the original bone mets. She has taken Avista to build up her bone since she can remember. She guesses 1995. We don't even know when it came out!! 

  • Maryiz
    Maryiz Member Posts: 975
    edited February 2009

    Mamie2, I think another way to help you make your decision is talk to people who have done the Gerson Therapy, actually, many of them, and then talk to people who did the chemo that your doctor is recommending.  I always feel better once I have thoroughly investigated.

    Thanks for the information on the stem cell transplant; that is very interesting, using the baby blood stem cells.  I am soooo glad she is doing great.  Maryiz 

  • Maryiz
    Maryiz Member Posts: 975
    edited February 2009

    More research on reconstruction is underway.  

    Note: The contents of this blog are for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice or substitute for professional care. For medical emergencies, dial 911!Stem cells may look, but not act, like cancerPosted May 25th 2007 9:00AM by Jacki Donaldson
    Filed under: Stem CellResearchDaily newsI love it when I find research coming straight from the halls of the very hospital where I received my breast cancer treatment. It reminds me that I'm in good hands, that University of Florida researchers are on the cusp of breaking through the mysteries of cancer, that I may one day be the lucky recipient of cutting-edge discoveries, like this:

    University of Florida researchers report in a paper to be published in the August issue of Stem Cells that bone marrow stem cells attracted to the site of cancerous growths often take on the appearance of the malignant cells surrounding them. While these cells look like cancer, though, they may not act like cancer. They have the same skin, says lead study author Dr. Chris Cogle. But the question is: do they have the same guts?

    "Our results indicate these cells act as developmental mimics; they come in and look like the surrounding neoplastic tissue, but they aren't actually the seed of cancer," said Cogle who is affiliated with the cancer center I've called home for more than two years.Continue reading Stem cells may look, but not act, like cancerReadPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [0]Is targeting stem cells the way to cure cancer?Posted Apr 24th 2007 12:00PM by Kristina Collins
    Filed under: All CancersStem CellResearchSome scientists think that the reason cancer recurs is because we haven't gotten to the root of the disease. What they mean by the root is -- the cancer stem cells.Stem cells can reproduce and make exact copies of themselves and can live longer than ordinary cells. Embryonic stem cells can have the potential to become many different types of cells, whereas adult stem cells are generally limited to becoming into the cell types of a specific organ.The researchers gave the analogy of a dandelion that is growing in your backyard. You can cut the weed but if you don't kill the root the dandelion will grow back. It seems that our treatments today for cancer can kill the ordinary cancer cells but can leave the stem cells behind to grow into new tumors and spread.So how do we kill the cancer stem cells? Well, they don't know yet. But it is promising research that I look forward to hearing more about in the future.   ReadPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [1]Stem cells used to regenerate liver tissuePosted Mar 30th 2007 6:45PM by Kristina Collins
    Filed under: Liver CancerStem CellSurgeryIn the April issue of the journalRadiology, researchers published a report that says they have used adult bone marrow stem cells to regenerate healthy human liver tissue.When cancer invades the liver sometimes it is impossible to have surgery performed to remove the tumor. This is because there is not enough healthy liver left behind to support the body. These stems cells help to regenerate the healthy portion of the liver so surgery can be performed.Gunther Furst, M.D, coauthor and professor of radiology, says "Our study suggests that liver stem cells harvested from the patients own bone marrow can further augment and accelerate the liver's natural capacity to regenerate itself." ReadPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [1]Top ten health news 2006Posted Dec 30th 2006 12:27PM by Dalene Entenmann
    Filed under: Breast CancerCervical CancerAll CancersStem CellAs complied by Forbe's HealthDay, half of the top ten health news of 2006 feature issues of interest to cancer patients and the cancer community in regard to cancer research, treatment and prevention. The top health story involves the concern over cost of medical care among those with health insurance and the continually growing numbers of uninsured. A recent study shows that one in six, or 50 million people, are struggling to afford medical treatment as they now spend more than ten percent of their income on medical expenses.

    After much controversy regarding ethics and morality, this year saw the approval of the first cervical cancer vaccine. The federal government recommends that girls as young as nine-years-old be given the vaccine. The Federal Drug Administration (FDA) re-approved the use of silicone breast implants. Although banned in 1992 because of concerns that silicone leakage might be linked to cancer, silicone implants were still offered to women undergoing breast reconstruction after breast cancer surgery. Supposedly the implants are now safe for all women. Some consumer advocacy groups still strongly disapprove of the FDA decision. 

    Another controversial issue being debated based on ethics and morality is stem cell research. According to Forbes, the majority of Americans are in favor of stem cell research and the promise it holds in the cure of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and many other diseases. 

    Lastly, scandals swept throught the research community as fake research and researchers were exposed, as was conflict of interest over questionable financial ties in the research community. 

    Other health news stories that made Forbe's HealthDay top ten list included: Tainted-Food Scares Rattle Public; Drug-Eluting Stents May Stay; 'Morning-After' Pill Goes OTC; Antidepressants' Link to Suicide Debated; and More Progress Against Alzheimer's Disease. You can read the Forbe's top ten list in its entirety here.ReadPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [1]Reducing the risk of graft-versus-host disease after bone marrow transplantPosted Dec 21st 2006 12:00PM by Kristina Collins
    Filed under: LeukemiaNon-Hodgkins LymphomaPreventionHodgkin's LymphomaBlood CancerStem CellResearchCancer SurvivorsGraft-versus-host disease (GvHD) is a complication that can occur after a stem cell transplant. GvHD occurs when infection-fighting cells from the donor recognize the patient's body as being different or foreign. These infection-fighting cells then attack tissues in the patient's body just as if they were attacking an infection. GvHD is often treated with steroids, though this does not always work. GvHD is a serious condition with a high death rate so researchers are constantly evaluating new ways to treat it or reduce the symptoms.European researchers conducted a study to see if a certain type of stem cell, infused into patients with GvHD that are not responding to treatment, would be effective. Patients were treated with mesenchymal stem cells, that are specific types of stems cells that are collected from the bone marrow of a donor. These stem cells are thought to help suppress the donor's immune cells and reduce the risk of GvHD.The researcher found that 68 percent of the patients responded, children having slightly better results. They concluded that treatment with mesenchymal stem cells appears to effectively treat recurrent GvHD that would otherwise have been fatal in a majority of patients. ReadPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [0]New research aimed to help children who receive bone marrow transplantsPosted Dec 11th 2006 11:00AM by Kristina Collins
    Filed under: Childhood CancersLeukemiaNon-Hodgkins Lymphoma,Hodgkin's LymphomaBlood CancerStem CellResearchChildren that undergo bone marrow transplants can develop life threatening infections while the immune system is trying to regenerating itself. St. Jude Children's Research Hospital thinks they have found a better way to harvest stem cells that are more vigorous in reproducing and rebuilding the immune system. These stem cells would reduce the time it takes for the immune system to rebuild--reducing the risk of infection.When harvesting the donated bone marrow a specific antibody is used to find the vigorous stem cells that mature and reproduce faster. They found that using a new antibody along with the one already used might prove to have better results in capturing the best stem cells needed. This could help the donated bone marrow to take hold faster and lessen the risk of the time children are exposed to serious infections.Although the studies so far have been done on mice, the researchers believe that this is promising information that with further studies can translate into better treatment for children that need to undergo a bone marrow transplant. ReadPermalinkEmail thisLinking BlogsComments [0]The future of breast reconstruction with the use of stem cellsPosted Oct 28th 2006 11:10AM by Kristina Collins
    Filed under: Breast CancerStem CellResearchCancer SurvivorsUniversity of Pittsburgh researchers are studying the potential use of stem cells, that come from the fat in our own bodies, for breast cancer reconstruction. Breast cancer survivors may one day be able to avoid the prospect of invasive breast surgeries. This approach uses the stem cells to regenerate tissue to develop into different specialized cell types.When the fat-derived stem cells are injected under the skin in a rat model, the cellular combination eventually formed what the researchers describe as a mound of tissue. Dr. J. Peter Rubin, M.D., assistant professor of plastic and reconstructive surgery at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, said "The surgical options for breast reconstruction involve either the use of implants or a procedure whereby fat tissue is taken from another part of the body is shaped into the form of a breast. Neither is ideal nor without risk. The use of adipose or fat derived stem cells may represent a better solution for soft tissue reconstruction in breast cancer patients".Dr. Rubin has been given a three year grant from the National Cancer Institute to further explore this unique approach. 

    Maryiz 

  • Mamie2
    Mamie2 Member Posts: 108
    edited March 2009

    wow...no data for LVI... looking for women who also have LVI and Oncotype score of 22.

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