LONG, Nat Progesterone Cream, Iodine... Survey
Hi. I was diagnosed with IDC in March '06 when I was 44 years old, mastectomy in May '06, chemo from June to Oct '06, 15 hour breast reconstruction surgery in Dec. '06.
This is long and goes into detail my struggle with BC for the last 18 or so months. For anyone who has been on natural progesterone cream and has been diagnosed with bc or had a recurrance of bc or another form of cancer, there is a survey I'd like for you to respond to at the end of MY story. Like I said, my story is long and if you don't want to read it, then just skip to the end. It won't hurt my feelings. 
I Started taking Tamox a few weeks after surgery. Couldn't sleep more than a few hours at a time and couldn't get more than 4-5 hours total a night. It started wearing on my system and I started having problems about 6 weeks after surgery (convulsions, high blood pressure, anxiety symptoms, etc.) I continued like this for a few days and thinking that it was something I was taking in my vitamin and supplement regimen or maybe tamox, I stopped everything and went to see my regular doc. He had me start taking anti-anxiety meds. At first they fixed the problem but after a few days of taking them on a regular basis, I just didn't feel right or good (no energy, lack of motivation, etc.). He then put me on an antidepressant, which didn't help much either. I stayed on these two drugs for a total of two months. All the while, I was investigating the medicines I was on (which scared the heck out of me). "What had I gotten myself into?" These medicines are addictive and the side effects aren't pretty and getting off them can be a nightmare. I read about progesterone cream from a book called "The Estrogen Alternative" and it mentioned Dr. Lee and his book. I went to buy the cream one day and then cancelled my order because my oncologist and obgyn both said "don't do it". So..... I spent the next 18 months in "hell" trying to get off these meds and being switched from one to another, never really feeling "right". I wondered if I would have to live like this for the rest of my life. HEAVEN FORBID!
Funny thing. The only time I EVER felt like committing suicide was while on antidepressants. After finally getting of ADs and anti-anxiety meds, I started feeling much better. I had more motivation, a little more energy and I actually wanted to start back up with my hobbies and interests that I had before bc. However, the good feelings did not last and I realized that because chemo put me in instant menopause, my hormones were so out of whack and my body had been through so much, that this is probably the way I'd feel for the rest of my life. I was not going to let that happen and so I started investigating again. A friend of mine told me about an iodine test and one of the docs in my area would be able to follow me in the treatment if I had iodine deficiency. I took the test, called his office and talked with one of his nurses. She mentioned that more than iodine, I needed to be on natural progesterone cream and asked if I'd read Dr. Lee's book. DEJA VU! Well, I went to our discount book store right nearby our house and they had ONE copy of the book. I grabbed it up and felt very good about the direction I was going. After going through the book, I bought some natural progesterone cream and after just two weeks of using it, I have no feelings of depression and I'm starting to have more energy.
I am also still pursuing the iodine deficiency thing. I'm doing a database study through www.breastcancerchoices.org where they see if you are deficient in iodine and then treat you accordingly. There have been studies done showing that iodine deficiency may be a cause of cancer too. They told me where to buy the iodine loading test and then once I sent them my results, they reimbursed me for the test. The iodine supplements are not expensive and if they could possibly help more with the fatigue and feeling of well-being, I'm all for it.
Now for the survey....
Anyone who has taken natural progesterone cream and got bc anyway or had a recurrance, here are some questions for you:
1. What brand of cream did you use?
2. How often did you use it (ie. 24 days on 6 days off each month, all the time, sometimes, etc.)?
3. How much actual progesterone was in the cream (ie. 450mg per tube, 1000mg per tube)?
4. How many ounces in the tube or jar?
5. What part(s) of the body did you put the cream on? Did you rotate locations?
5. Do you drink bottled water? How often?
6. Do you use your microwave to cook or reheat your food?
7. Do you try to use organic foods as much as possible?
8. Do you exercise? What kind of exercise and how often?
9. What kind of work do you do (ie. sit at a computer all day, stay at home mom)?
10. How much stress do you deal with during any given day?
11. Do you do any stress reduction exercises (ie. yoga, deep breathing, etc.)?
12. Do you eat a lot of processed foods, fast food, or sugary foods, drink soda or diet soda?
I am sure there are more questions that I could ask but can't think of them right now. This is not a scientific survey. I am not going to publish it. It's for my benefit and the benefit of others who might want to know the information.
Your responses would be appreciated.
Melani in TX
Comments
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Progresterone is the "PR" part of the ER/PR receptors they measure in your tumor.
Since that's been demonstrated to make tumors grow I don't advise fooling with it.
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Melani
It is ironic that you posted this because we are discussing hormone therapy on the I Quit thread. I have been very interested in Dr. Lee's research. My chiro recommended that I start to use natural progesterone, but I have not been brave enough because my regular doctors all say not to.
Rose, Dr. Lee states that it is the synthetic form of progesterone that causes cancer, not the natural kind, which usually comes from yams. Check out his reseach at:
johnleemd.com
As far as the survey Melani, you might get a lot of flack for trying it here, because it seems that is what happens when people try to do surveys. I respect what you are doing, and I totally agree with you. Please share more of your experience with progesterone.
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Rose,
I don't know where you got the information that progesterone "has been demonstrated to make tumors grow." That is a widely circulated myth. The opposite is true. You need to read WHAT YOUR DOCTOR MAY NOT TELL YOU ABOUT BREAST CANCER by Lee and Zava. They will give you the actual studies.
Anom
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Vivre - I have been following your thread on I Quit mainly because I am so so reluctant to do any hormone therapy. I am 75 and was very very healthy until I was dx with bc this Nov 08. I had surgery on Dec 10, completed the 5 day seeded therapy on Dec 23rd. it went well with some fatigue and sensitivity in the breast. I still feel healthy and can handle the intermittent sharp pains and sensitivity without any help from painkillers. I have started to take the indole-3-carbinol, plus other vitamin supplements. I too am confused about progesterone. I read the Estrogen Alernative and am planning to read Dr. Lee's book. What will tip you over to Dr. Lee's side on this debate? I've been told I have a 5-10% risk of bc recurring, which I see as 95-90% chance of being free. Any ideas would be welcomed. Hugs to our sisters on this journey. Mary.
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Mary, I am not sure what will tip the scales for me to use progesterone. My doctor is recommending it, but I am going to read Dr. Lee's book, which I am going to try to get today since we seem to be having a bit of a respite from the bitter cold. I have the same stats as you, low risk of recurrance, but I still want to make sure I am using all the ammo I can. Lisa Sayers seems to know a lot about hormone therapies. She sent me some great info. You might pm her and ask her to send you info too. I learned a lot.
Am I the only one who is exasperated that we have to hunt for all this information. I am beginning to wonder what they are teaching in med school.
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Melani, I'll do your survey. I had bc 11 years ago, refused chemo & radiation, chose Tamoxifen and had a new primary 3 years ago. I started usinng progesterone cream to control the migraines that I had from Tamoxifen. My oncologist gave his blessing as long as I was on Tamo but wanted me to quit when my 5 years were up. I have used progesterone cream on and off during this time and had just dropped a few supplements (progesterone cream included) before my 2nd diagnosis.I also have the Iodine Loading test and am embarrassed to say that I keep putting it off just because it seems like such a hassle. I wish there was a shorter test (time wise).
1. What brand of cream did you use? Mostly LEF's but tend to alternate/rotate brands
2. How often did you use it (ie. 24 days on 6 days off each month, all the time, sometimes, etc.)? Premen I used it in the last half of my cycle. As I eased into menopause, I tried using it 3 weeks on/1week off but sometimes just kept using it without the break.
3. How much actual progesterone was in the cream (ie. 450mg per tube, 1000mg per tube)? Varied by the brand but I always strived to used about 15mg. (The smallest dose that controlled symptoms).
4. How many ounces in the tube or jar? 8 or 16
5. What part(s) of the body did you put the cream on? Did you rotate locations?Rotated inner thighs and sometimes neck.
5. Do you drink bottled water? Unfortunately yes. How often? daily....didn't for years but have gotten lazy and started grabbing bottled water (I do look for the 'harder' plastic bottles).
6. Do you use your microwave to cook or reheat your food? Yes
7. Do you try to use organic foods as much as possible? Yes
8. Do you exercise? Yes What kind of exercise and how often? Mostly Pilates and Yoga but do some light weight lifting too.
9. What kind of work do you do (ie. sit at a computer all day, stay at home mom)? teacher
10. How much stress do you deal with during any given day? most days some, some days a lot
11. Do you do any stress reduction exercises (ie. yoga, deep breathing, etc.)? yes, meditation, practice Reiki, yoga
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I got the impression when I read Northrup's book on menopause that estrogen is in charge of cycling cells into being, while progesterone is in charge of cycling cells out. Apoptosis is the term for the natural end of a cell's life. So I've never understood why there doesn't seem to be more studies focused on progesterone. Chemo's sole purpose is to take out the cancer cells. Could it be possible that progesterone supplements could do the same thing? My library doesn't have any of Dr Lee's books. If you could share some information that you've learned from his books, I for one would be appreciative.
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I have not used natural progesterone but am very eager to have a meaningful discussion with bc sufferers who have read Dr Lee's books and are open minded about them. I feel that he does raise some very important issues (such as existence of three kinds of estrogen and what difference that makes in terms of their implication for bc). Where he does fall short is that he does not fully explain the incomatibility of his adding ER and PR hormones for people who are ER/PR positive.
I was particularly interested in his argument that estriol is not implicated in bc, quite the contrary. If that is true it would mean that we could use Ovestin cream without fear of estrogen feeding cancer cells via blood stream. I have noticed that on most threads about v. atrophy estradiol creams are used and recommended even though estradiol is highly implicated in BC. I have created post like this one asking anyone who used Ovestin cream to comment on their experience but have not had any replies.
Finally, I think he explained very well why diet and excercise are important (there is a chemical explanation of how broccoli interferes with estrogen becoming harmful). I have looked on the amazon.com and his book costs just over $10 if you cannot find it in the library.
Best wishes
Nena
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althea,
The ones doing the studies on prescription medications are the pharmaceutical companies. They make a lot of money off of the drugs that are approved by the FDA. However, they can't patent a product that occurs naturally. The drug companies will not spend the money to study something they can't make money off of. This is according to Dr. Lee and many of the naturopath doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, etc.
Melani
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Why don't we all get Dr. Lees book and start a book club. I have had no luck finding it but I got the number to order from borders and I am going to order it tomorrow. The number is BINC 695224. Maybe if we all try to get the book this week, we can start discussing it next?
I am also looking for anyone who wants to join me in getting the answers we are looking for. The real Truth about cancer. I am calling it cANSWERS NOW! I am hoping to organize an awareness walk, that will be free to join, and spread the message that answers our questions:
Why are we getting cancer?
Why is our food supply so tainted.
Why are they putting toxins in our 'Health" and beauty products.
Where is all the money going?
etc etc
Anyone want to get on the bandwagon?
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Vivre, I have already read this book but months ago so will have to remind myself of details. Another book which I have mentioned elsewhere which is also worth discussing is 'your life in your hands' by Jane Plant. I am afraid though that we have hijacked this post somewhat and are not answering Melani's survey. Perhaps we should move to another post. Sorry Melani. Thank you for starting an interesting discussion.
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You can find all of Dr Lee's books on his website http://www.johnleemd.com/
Other good ones to read:
The Consumer's Dictionary of Food Additives OR The Consumer's Dictionary of Cosmetic Ingredients by Ruth Winter.
Hormone Balance: A Matter of Life & Health by Kris Klitzke, R.N.
The Estrogen Alternative: Natural Hormone Therapy with Botanical Progesterone
By Raquel Martin and Judi Gerstung, D.C.
Hormone Heresy-What Women Must Know About Their Hormones.
By Sherill Sellman
Natural Progesterone Cream
By Norman Shealy, M.D.
Mad Cowboy: Plain Truth from Cattle Rancher who won't eat meat.
By Howard F. Lyman
Here is a website you may want to check out!
http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com/
I'm laying low today.....had chemo Friday and today is my "sluggish" day! Will catch up with all of you later!
Lisa
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Accidental. Jane Plant's book was one of the first I read. Convinced me not to use diary, and I use to live off the stuff. I guess we are reading the same books at different times! LOL
Lisa, I am thinking of you today. Hope you feel better soon. Wish I could offer you some help. Thanks for the great links!
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Here is another link
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Vivre: I am currently reading Dr. Lee's book, What your dr. did NOT tell you about Breat Cancer. I have read The Estrogen Alternative ;and am sold that Progesterone is an answer for me. I just came back from my first appointment with the medical onc. what a waste. I have other tests to take before I am convince to NOT do hormone therapy at all. I'm taking a bone density test to affirm that My numbers are normal and also another pap smear test. If you start the book club I'm in. I took the book out of the library but will buy it if we decide to do a study group. The girls on all the posts are great and I value all of the information every one shares. Should we start another post just for the study and sharing of info as accidental tourist suggests? Hugs to all. Mary
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I am still trying to get the book but I really want to start a discussion. I will start a new thread when I finally do. Also, there is reason to hope that doctors will eventually start to take this seriously. Oprah did a show on it today and is doing another next week with Suzanne Somers. The fact is, women have to begin to speak up and stop letting the drug and insurance companies train our doctors. Every time one of these alternatives, that is inexpensive comes out, these companies will try to refute it so that it does not hurt their business. More and more doctors are speaking up and I think that as they start to tell their success stories things will improve. Until then, WE are stuck going against our doctors who are not up on all this stuff. It is our bodies. We need to speak out.
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Vivre,Accid Tour, Lisa S: I decided to order my jar of progesterone. Dr. Lee suggests keeping a journal while you use it- for symptom relief, side effects etc. I don't expect any side effects. He does mention a return of menses if too much is used. then stop using it for a while. Let me know when you have set up your new post for discussion. all topics would be welcomed relative to reading on BC subject. Stay well, focused and vigilante. Women rule. hugs Mary
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Mary, is there any chance you could consult with one of the doctors who specialise in this before you start. Lisa Sayers seems to know a lot about this and has listed a number of specialist on 'bioidentical hormones for menopause' on Hormonal Therapy forum. Also, there is a person on that thread who was taking bio identical hormones when she was diagnosed with BC.
I will try to get Estrogen Alternative and read it for our discussion.
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Mary, While I am convinced that this is the way to go, I agree with accidental that we should not do this without a doctor in our corner. It is important that we have blood and estrogen levels checked so that we do not get our bodies out of whack even more. It really upsets me that we have to hunt around for all these answers, but unfortunately, doctors just do not know enough yet. Lisa sent me some great links, and maybe you can send her your email so she can send them to you. I think we should all work together on this and share what we learn, but I also think we need to proceed with caution because we do not have all the answers yet. Tune in to Oprah again this week when Dr. Northrup is on. Maybe we can all write to her to get her to talk about hormones and bc. We need to keep pushing for answers. Who knows, maybe we can get doctors to work with us, and maybe we will even come get everyone to figure out if this is the direction they need to be looking.
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Mary did you get any directions with the progesterone cream? If not, I can send you some information. But I would get my hormones tested first so you know where you are at with your levels.
You won't notice any immediate results from the progesterone cream...it will take a while before you notice anything...may be a month, may be more. How much progesterone are you getting per dose? Does the cream you ordered come in a pump that give you pre-measured doses or are you measuring yourself each time you use it?
I've been teaching people about natural progesterone for several years...and even though you can buy it on the market (my company sells it too)....I strongly believe that people should get their hormones tested before using any. Just makes sense to me.
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vivre, accid tour, lisa, thanks for watching out for me. I have emailed lisa for more info. I was not g oing to use the cream until I checked with a new medonc. for my hormone levels or a healthcare provider if I can find one who will work with me on Long Island. In the meantime I am doing bone density and new pap smear testing. I wanted the cream on hand so I feel I have an option...thanks for being there. mary
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Mary, I hope you find a doc who is up on all of this. THAT is the problem, finding a doctor who understands anything beyond what they are taught by big pharma. Now that Oprah seems to bringing this out into the open, maybe it will be looked at more seriously. In the meantime, we are left to sort through the information on our own. Let's keep each other posted.
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Hey Ladies
Mary...I just got your email...will write you back.
As far as finding doctors...that is the hard part. One thing that may help, if you have compounding pharmacies in your area, contact them for referrals. They would know the doctors who are prescribing bioidenticles in your area.
I hope that helps!
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I'm finding this thread interesting because it's pretty where my head is with respect to the hormone issue. I've decided not to take Tamoxifen. I just made an appointment with a doctor who works at a compounding pharmacy to get my hormone panel done; based on my own reading, I'm fairly certain I've had a hormone imbalance for years. I take I3C now, but I think it's probably insufficient to get things back in balance. I've read Dr. Lee's book, and some others about the hormone industry, including an interesting one about the history of the business called "The Greatest Experiment Ever Performed on Women" - a good read if you want more background info about the evolution of hormone research and marketing.
Also, I stumbled on this site in my search for compounding pharmacies; it looks pretty comprehensive.
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The progesterone apparently increases the absorption of iodine into the tissues. That's why some practitioners recommend they be taken together. There was a picture where scientists gave the iodine-progesterone combination to rats with breast tumors and they shrunk.
It's the iodine deficiency that seems to promote cysts and tumors. Removing all iodine from the rats' diet gave them fibrocystic breasts and tumors as time progressed. When they added iodine back into their chow, the breasts returned to normal.
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I used natural progesterone cream for a couple of years for peri-menopausal problems. It was very, very effective for me and really helped eliminate the fatigue, migraines, and dizziness I was experiencing during this shift of my hormones. I used Emerita, which is made by a women's-based company and I believe one of the pioneers of progest cream. It is strong and I think it was once recommended by Dr. Lee. I would rotate the cream on different soft areas of my body and used it twice a day for 3 weeks each month. I eat mostly organic but am no angel...love chocolate, caffeine, etc....Do walk a lot and take dance classes....I do not use a microwave and I'm active very active at work. I take supplements, (D-3, Ester C, Co-Q10, I3C, curcumin).....Well, obviously I developed bc, and I will never know what combination of things contributed to it and if progest is good or bad or neutral. I have often wondered.....Good luck with your research and with whatever you decide.....
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Hello - Just thought I'd contribute the little bit I know. I used natural progesterone cream for about 3 years perimenopause, as my sister had had severe hot flashes through that time of life & I thought that I'd be in for the same. Also knew I could never take HRT as my Mom had bresat cancer. At first, I read Dr. Lee's book & bought Femgest in the US. Natural progesterone cream is not available in Canada over the counter. After a few years I found a gynecologist here who was only using bioientical hormones, based on Dr. Lee's pioneering work. I had my hormnes tested & he prescribed a 3% nat. pro. cream that was compounded at the pharmacy. I used it in rotation on different body areas including breasts, for a year or so. I never had hot flashes, so mission accomplished I felt.
But last summer, about 2 years after menopause, I did develop breast cancr and it was a whopper, in size and rate of cell division. All this showed up in just one year since I'd had my last mammogram, and my surgeon studied previous mammograms to see if there had been some mistake, but no, previous mammogram looked clear. I had a mastectomy & chemo & am about to start radiation. I did a phone consult with that gynecologist, wondering if there'd be some way natural progesterone cream might fit into my health care, but since I was 10% ER & PR receptor positive he said no way. He sugggested melatonin, indole-3-carbinols, and losing weight. I've been left wondering whether naural progesterone cream could have aided, retarded, or had nothing to do with my cancer.
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I thought this was an interesting paper on HRT:
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Thanks, Vivre.
Maybe this paper could be posted on the Suzanne Somers thread? At least it shows that the doctors are considering HRT after breast cancer.
There are so many people waging a scorched earth campaign to destroy estrogen. No estrogenic foods, creams, herbs, cosmetics... There is a list circulating that has no evidence behind it.
I'm beginning to think estrogen is turning into the next Communism. And the patients have become McCarthyites.
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What is interesting is that the conventional medicine totally ignores the fact that there are three estrogens and that there is research pointing out difference between them in terms of BC implications. Even alternative medicine is struggling with contradictory advice: either not allowing or recommending phytoestrogens (there are anti cancer diets recommending soya, flax seed and dairy while others are banning it). It's no wonder we are confused.
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