anyone refuse/decline post-tx CT/bone scans?

Options
bluewillow
bluewillow Member Posts: 779

I'm curious to know if anyone out there has ever refused or declined CT and/or bone scans following treatment for early stage Her2+ BC.  Here's why I'm asking:

I am so upset and angry right now, and I hope this post makes sense. I just had my end-of-treatment follow up visit with my oncologist/surgeon this morning, and as always after seeing him, I left the cancer center in tears.  I hate him right now. This is the same Gloomy Gus doctor that was not the least bit encouraging when I was first diagnosed, making me feel like I was dead meat for sure. Thank goodness I was able to post here and get some real assurance and advice.

As you can see from my biology info, I am Stage 1, very small Her2+ tumor, clear nodes, clean scans, had very aggressive treatment, and feel absolutely wonderful now. I had my port taken out last week, Dec. 8, was given a surprise end-of-tx party by my daughter and son, and have been on top of the world!! But, today, my onc/surgeon just out of the blue said he wanted to schedule CT and bone scans. I was told by the Nurse Practitioner at the same cancer center a month ago that I would not have to have more scans unless I had symptoms (I have had NONE). I immediately told my onc I did not want the scans, but he talked me into scheduling "at least having a bone scan". As crazy as it sounds, I was so stunned I couldn't even ask "for what and why????" (I will call his office tomorrow to find out) He gave me no reason for it and there are no suspicious finding for the scans. And I cannot understand why he would order these scans after taking my port out. To put it plain and simple, I don't want the damn scans!!!!! I am aware of the fact that scans aren't recommended after treatment, except in the presence of symptoms or physical signs of recurrence and/or mets, and I am concerned about the added radiation. And I don't want or need the stress and anxiety of testing and the wait for results. PLUS, I am not even sure my insurance will pay for them so soon after treatment.  I had CT and bone scans right after I was diagnosed and before treatment started, and everything was perfectly clean! I can take the every-six-month mammograms, but this is ridiculous. Am I nuts for feeling this way? Has anyone else ever had a similar experience? My husband and I had a long talk about it this afternoon and he is angry and says I will not see that onc/surgeon ever again. He feels that it is money-driven, since I have very good insurance, and I don't dispute his theory this time. Overall, we have been satisfied with the care I have received from the cancer center, except for this particular doctor.  I do plan on calling my radiation oncologist tomorrow to get his take on it-- I trust him a lot more than the onc/surgeon.

I would appreciate any advice and help from anyone!  Thanks for letting me vent and rant and rave and get this out.

Comments

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Good morning,

    I hope it's ok that I bump this up, in hopes someone will reply and give me some advice-- I am desperate!  I just put in a call to the onc/surgeon's office to find out the reason behind the scans.  As soon as I hear back from that office, I plan to call my radiology/oncologist to get a 'second opinion'.  Even after a fair night's sleep, I am still angry and scared.  My mind is running wild with crazy thoughts.  THANK YOU for listening!

  • licorice2006
    licorice2006 Member Posts: 72
    edited December 2008

     My onc scheduled me for a bone density after my treatment was finished. I started arimidex and this can cause bone loss so we needed a density test to have a baseline to look back on. By chance, I had had this test before bc and we found that I had lost 3% density in the last 16 months. I was put on Fosomax to help but I had 24/7 palpitations. Onc wanted another test but I refused any more radiation so we agreed on echocardigram. Two months after stopping Fosomax, no more problems and I now take extra calcium tabs instead. I am surprised that you can't get an answer. I hope the radiologist can help you. Chris

  • Brenda_R
    Brenda_R Member Posts: 509
    edited December 2008

    I had Pet/ct, bone, and plain ct scans during treatment. Now I'm about 8 months out of treatment and I asked about a scan.  Doctor wanted to wait awhile, but I told him better do it while I have insurance.

    I understand the worry and apprehension that comes with scans, but better to know and catch something early, than miss it. Also nice when you get a clean scan.

    Just my thoughts on it. 

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008
    Thank you, Licorice and Brenda!  I did call my radiation/oncologist this morning and he immediately said no need for follow-up CT/bone scans unless I had pain or symptoms.  I still haven't heard back from the onc/surgeon's office-- still waiting for an answer.  I guess why I am so wound up about this that I was told they got all the cancer with my second lumpectomy, which was after clear nodes and clear body scans, then went through chemo + radiation + herceptin, then they want to check for cancer elsewhere that wasn't there before treatment???  Although I know they don't have a crystal ball to guarantee anyone cancer-free, it just doesn't make good common sense to me to have all these tests until I do have symptoms.  I have a lot to think about, and I sure was hoping to get through the holidays this year with less stress, but then again, why should I think I should be above having to deal with it, when so many others are suffering much more...  this has jolted me back to the real world... will be in touch with updates soon.
  • Sassa
    Sassa Member Posts: 1,588
    edited December 2008

    Hi Mary Jo,

    I has a CT/PET scan before starting chemo to check for any problems and to have as a baseline.  My oncologist sent me in for another baseline CT/PET scan 3 months after finishing chemo and herceptin.  She said it was to have a scan for comparison in case of problems.

    Of course, something showed in my spleen that the reading radiologist was sure was a malignancy.  After a battery of bloodwork and a high resolution CT w/wo contrast, the thought was that it was a rare splenic cyst. 

    That was last May.  Since then, I had a follow up CT/PET scan in August to make sure there were no changes and am having another one the beginning of January.

    I wish I didn't have that one in May.  The false positive was nerve-wracking and I hate having CT/PET scans every 3 months to make sure everything is stable in the spleen . 

    I am also thinking about having reconstruction with silicone implants.  If I have expanders in, I can't have a CT/PET scan done.  If the January scan is clear, I hope my oncologist will agree I don't need another scan for at least a year.

    Mary Jo

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Still haven't gotten a call back from my onc/surgeon's office, even after I called and left another message an hour ago, and they close in 45 minutes, so I'm getting VERY antsy. 

    Thanks, Mary Jo, for your reply.  I am so sorry you had to endure that false positive scan-- that has to be non-conducive to good recovery and mental health after breast cancer treatment!  That is the very thing I fear.  I am so thankful for you that yours turned out ok and good luck in January and with your recon.

    I wish I knew why there is such a varying opinion about follow-up scans.  I have done quite a bit of reading (and yes, Googling) and find that the opinion is not to have follow-up scans in absence of symptoms, including this website here.  I am still waiting by the phone... Cry

    Mary Jo

  • lisa-e
    lisa-e Member Posts: 819
    edited December 2008

    Mary Jo, not only are follow-up scans not recommended in the absence of symptoms, they are often not preformed during the diagnostic work up with early stagebc.  The NCCN Clinical Practice Guidelines state that bone scans and CT scans are optional, depending on symptoms and/or abnormal test results if thebc is stage one.

    My onc never recommended a bone or ct scan, as my tumors were stage 1, grade 1.  I asked for a bone scan because I wanted a base line  and he was okay with ordering it, but said it wasn't necessary.  (He was right - the results were perfectly normal. ) I also asked for a bone density test,  because I wanted a base line before taking any drugs that may effect my bone density.  

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Well, the call finally came and I feel good about my onc/surgeon's nurse's response and about my decision to decline the scans.  She told me that my dr. periodically (I think a better word might be "randomly") orders CT and bone scans for "high risk ladies such as those w/Her2+ tumors and that he definitely did NOT see anything on my recent mammograms or ultrasounds or blood work that made him suspect anything wrong or suggest a reason for the scans.  So, I told her I did not want the scans and she said she understood perfectly, especially since I am feeling great. 

    Lisa-e, thank you so much for your reply-- the information you gave is exactly what I have been trying to find online all day-- something specific that states that the scans are optional in early stage bc.

    I do realize that being Her2+ is considered "high risk", but that is why I was happy to receive the Herceptin.  All I can do is go by how I feel and in my heart and gut, I am relieved knowing I don't have to endure the scans again, unless I feel the need.  For a change, just being able to make a choice throughout this whole BC treatment ordeal is empowering, rather than being at the total mercy of doctors, nurses, testing, etc.

    Bless all of you who have replied-- you have helped me more than you could ever imagine!!!!! 

    Best wishes,

    Mary Jo

  • Brenda_R
    Brenda_R Member Posts: 509
    edited December 2008

    There's much to be said about waiting for some symptoms before having a scan.

    Something to consider though, and keep in mind, my case is probably much different than your's. I had a positive Internal Mammary node, and had no symptoms of it at all.

    The only way I knew it was in the node chain, was the fact that I had a Pet/CT scan and it lit up like light bulb.  After all my treatment, I asked my onc about my follow up care. How would we know it hasn't come back? He said the same, we'll do scans if I have symptoms. But when I asked about the chest nodes, and that there would be no symptoms there, he said "we'll do a scan every so often".

    Of course you don't want to have to keep worrying about BC, and getting back to a somewhat normal life is great!  Just wanted everyone to be aware that there are some circumstances where only a scan will do.

    My tumor markers were never high, so I can't count on them a as predictor.

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Hi Brenda,

    Thank you very much for sharing your experience and for clarifying the importance of having scans.  I am glad for you that you had the scans that led to your diagnosis.  After I posted, I worried that someone might misinterpret and think scans aren't important-- they are, as in your case, as well as in many, many others.  Ironically, my tumor markers were never checked and I was told they weren't necessary in my case. Just goes to show you how vastly different our individual cases can be, while still having lots in common.  Thanks again for all your input and help and I hope you continue to do well! 

    ps- Your signature line is great!

    Mary Jo

  • TammyLou
    TammyLou Member Posts: 740
    edited December 2008

    I have annual scans.  The information on Herceptin is "new" and we are part of the "new numbers," so, at least in my case, my scans provide important data.

    Tammy Lou

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Hi Tammy, that is a very good way to look at the importance of scans.  Your post reminded me of something the nurse said today about another possible reason for my dr. ordering the scans-- for "tracking" purposes, since I am Her2+.  We are so lucky to have the Herceptin.  Thanks and best wishes to you!

  • Jenniferz
    Jenniferz Member Posts: 541
    edited December 2008

    Blue willow,

    I am triple positive, and have never had a CT/bone scane either before or after my mastectomy.  My onc. said only if I have symptoms.  I do have tumor markers drawn every six months, which does add to my panic attacks, but that's ok.  It is a necessary evil, I suppose.  I guess I could refuse those, but then, I probably would loose my onc.

    Jennifer

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Hi Jennifer and thanks for sharing.  It is a comfort knowing there are other early stage HER2+ers who haven't had to endure the scans.  I'm sure the tumor marker tests are not fun either.  Interesting-- that is the one thing my oncs didn't mention doing to me, in fact said only their ovarian/uterine/cervical cancer patients had the marker tests and also routine CT/bone scans.

    Thanks again!

    Mary Jo

  • Fllorik
    Fllorik Member Posts: 1,351
    edited December 2008

    I refused scans and tumor marker blood tests for 8 months. I just didn't want to know!

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Hi Fllorik, I'm curious-- did your dr. recommend the scans and when and if you don't mind me asking, is your tumor biology anywhere close to being like mine?  I'm asking because I have been reading extensively on the scan or no scan issue, and about 99 percent of the sources say scans aren't recommended and/or beneficial in the absence of symptoms, esp. for early stagers.  I have state employees health insurance and according to today's newspaper, they are slowly going broke, so they probably won't cover scans for me anyway, at least not this year.

    Thanks for your input!

    Mary Jo

  • marejo
    marejo Member Posts: 1,356
    edited December 2008

    I had to chime in on this topic because I, too, use to think that I wanted scans.   That control to "get it" early if "it" was their.  However, my oncologist explained to me that although scans can and do find cancer...they only find the cancer if it is a certain size.  So, even if a scan comes back "clean" does not mean you truly don't have a malignancy somewhere.......also, often times, a false positive is found and that is incredibly stressful.

    I can speak to these things because I, NOT on the advise of my oncologist, went ahead and had a PET/CT scan that my radiation oncologist here in  my city said he would order. So, I went a head with it and I wish I hadn't.  A false positive was found - but of course - at that time we didn't know for sure it was a false positive.  So, after having ultra sounds and watching it for months and months we know it wasn't a cancer.  The stress of that ordeal was WAY more than I'd ever want to go through again on a regular basis.

    Although, waiting for symptoms and the always wondering if our cancer has or will return, is very frightening at times.......the stress of looking for cancer is even more frightening in my opinion.

    That's just my 2 cents on this subject. 

    Mary Jo

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Hi Mary Jo,

    Your way of thinking about the stress of "looking for cancer" is exactly my way of thinking.  Right now, I feel absolutely great and it makes no sense to me to have scans without symptoms, just because my dr. (in my opinion) wants to pad his wallet.  I will be better off emotionally just enjoying my life and feeling good and not enduring the anxiety and fear of waiting test results that might not be accurate.  And if something makes me think I'm not ok later, then I'll go for the scans.  I am so sorry you had to deal with all the stress of the false positive (so glad it was "false"), but I am so glad you shared your experience.  Your two cents is worth a million!

    Mary Jo

  • Fllorik
    Fllorik Member Posts: 1,351
    edited December 2008

    I have to agree with Mary Jo....... Enjoy life! Relax! Enjoy that little one in your avatar!

    My situation was different... I have mets and i just wanted to have some fun without cancer hanging over my head all the time.

    I think if all is well, they tell women to come back 6 mos. or a year after treatment. Does someone know the exact timing of that? 

  • bluewillow
    bluewillow Member Posts: 779
    edited December 2008

    Thank you for agreeing, Fllorik!  Smile  Enjoying my grandson Mason is exactly what I want to do this new year!! 

    I am supposed to have mammograms every six months on my "bad" side, I think for the next 5 years, and once a year for my "good" one.  That is all the testing I want, at least in my mind, for right now!

Categories