ER+ ladies, what do you eat?
There seems to be a lot of conflicting info out there, and I am trying to figure out a prudent eating plan. So I am curious if people would share what they do in terms of diet after their DXs.
How far do you go in avoiding sugar?
How do you limit carbs (if you limit them)?
Do you eat dairy? Is no-fat dairy ok, or is all dairy of the devil?
Red meat, yes or no?
How low-fat do you go?
Comments
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this is such a good question. I feel like in one forum or another, I've been told absolutely everything is bad for me except organic vegetables. one site says red wine is good for us, another says no alcohol. one site says yes meat, one site says no. one site says drink lots of green tea and yes, you guessed it, I read a post the other day where an onc magazine said it can counteract tamoxifen. yes dairy, no dairy, etc. I think I kind of give up. I'm just barely over 100 pounds soaking wet, so it's hard to keep my weight up eating just veggies. I do drink organic unsweetened green tea, I reduced meat intake, buy organic milk, and organic other things when I can. I try to eat less processed food, less sugar, more fruit, veggies, nuts and whole grain. I went from about 5 glasses of wine a week to maybe 2 or 3 per month. I still have a diet coke maybe 4 times a week. That and dessert are my biggest weaknesses. I asked the onc once about sugar and she said don't have cake every night but my cancer isn't one triggered by sugar so if I want a piece of cake, eat it. I'm not sure what to make of that because most everything says sugar is a major contributor. What's a girl to do???
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I am a pretty healthy eater...aside from SUGAR... I love candy...my biggest vice!!
I just had braces put on and ortho said absolutely no candy...so I hope this helps curb my sweet tooth. I have switched to Agave for my coffee which is pretty good but you have to read the label to make sure its RAW organic not made with fructose. I havent eaten red meat in years I eat lots of chicken fish and pork...organic as much as possible. I always eat lots of veggies and dont worry about organic there but I guess I should its just so much more expensive. I drink almond or coconut milk eat organic greek yogurts and I am half french so bring on the cheese. Its the one thing I dont stress over hormones...maybe I should???
Sugar is the hardest part for sure and I am sure they will discover enemy #1 to women.
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I've been wondering about soy. Is it ok? Tofu? Soy milk? Is there some that's ok some that's not? I do try to eat healthy, low saturated fats, no trans fat, etc. Really just a healthy heart diet. Haven't really thought about the BC part. I have been buying organic chicken instead of what ever brand is at Safeway. Still confused about the soy though.
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another one of those where you read absolutely it's good for you and then the next article is that it's the worst thing you can do. My doc said soy in regular food is fine - but don't drink soy milk or take any kind of supplements.
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As far as I know, soy is a big no-no, because it is heavily estrogenic. BUT, as others point out, some sites will tell you that the phyto-estrogen in soy will block the "real" estrogen and is therefore good. My thinking is to avoid it, however. As far as I know, lots of soy can help menopausal symptoms, like a natural hormone replacement. That is what we DON'T want as far as I can see.
Apparently flax seed and flax oil is also phyto-estrogenic to high a degree, so several sites say to avoid it in ER+ BC, although it is otherwise recommended for cancer patients.
I also saw a study yesterday indicating that limiting carbohydrates can cut recurrence risk. Further, that going on a starvation diet 2 days a week, with almost no carbs on those 2 days, can cut recurrence risk.
What I can't find anything on is the dairy. Does anyone have a credible source showing any kind of link? I am thinking that no-fat or low-fat dairy ought to be ok, but I really don't know.
My thinking is to cut way down on starch and stick to pulses, whole grains and fruit for the carbs I do consume. Try to eat as many veggies as I can stand, go easy on meat and dairy, avoid sugar, limit alcohol to 2-3 glasses of red wine a week (I LIKE red wine, damn it), and if I can get my head around it, try that starvation thing 2 days a week.
Please keep the suggestions, evidence, thoughts etc coming.
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A recent study done by Harvard said milk in the states is probably not a great idea for us. The U.S. tends to milk cows so frequently,especially during the height of the cows pregnancy. Well those hormones go right into the milk. Just what we girls need. So skim milk is better. But i'm thinking cheese,cream,meat,ice cream etc must be on the bad list too. And we all know how bad most chicken is with their hormone injections. And now i'm hearing no soy which is in everything turns out. So what's left? Anyone up for a glass of seaweed juice and a cracker?
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I eat organic and mostly from the anti-cancer list. I do eat read meat but only organic grass feed local beef. I am working with a wellness doctor and she insists that protein is essential. I eat nuts every day and have learned how to use herbs to power charge just about any dish. I think the deal with milk is that it can act as an inflammatory for some people. Not the case for me. I use Kefer for probiotics.
I have eliminated almost all processed sugar. Except that it may be an ingredient late on the list. When I am selecting cereal, juice and and such the first think I do is check for how much sugar per serving. I try for the lowest. Candy is out.
I do not miss sugar and have enjoyed learning about healthier food. I did ok before BC but now I am a health FREAK, as I have had two recurrences and DO NOT want another.
I also use reverse osmosis water to keep my PH up. The deal with wine is that it does have resveratol, but also comes with a high glycemic index. So sometimes it is just finding a balance. If you have wine with something high fiber it slows the rate at which is raises the blood sugar.
I have a blog called Breast cancer- beating back the beast. I am currently posting things I have learned in the past 3 years about food and cancer. If anyone wants a link, you can PM me. I would love your input as well. There is an anti cancer food list posted there.
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I changed my eating some years ago, before I (knew I) had breast cancer, and I stick to that: I avoid cereals – anything with wheat, oats, rice and so on. This said, there is a kind of rye crisps that I just won't be without, and I make exceptions when I feel like it ... but mostly, I don't. Not eating flour food cuts down carbs a lot, which minimizes my cravings for sweet things, so I don't even feel I have to avoid sugar actively.
Instead of pasta, rice et ctera I eat a lot of kale of different kinds, and other vegetables, which I now have learnt is good for preventing cancer. I also eat nuts every day.
Then there is the question of fruit – where the official truth is that fruit is good for you, the more the healthier, while some say that fruit should be cut out because it contains too much sugar. I also read that an alkaline condition in the body prevents cancer, and fruit does get alkaline in the body, so it should be good ... Well, I like fruit, so I eat it
I eat dairy and red meat, because I like it. I read somewhere (sorry, don't remember where) that cheese can protect against breast cancer. Also, I read that protein is extra important during and (I guess) right after radiation, to help the body build up again. But we have lamb and chicken more often than beef and pork, as we can often get it cheap and organic from a friend in the countryside.
Obviously, I don't go low-fat. When I looked into it, the argument for avoiding fat seems to be that you shouldn't be overweight, as that is a risk. But with the "diet" I am on, I have lost 20 kilos in two years without any struggle, so I think fat is OK.
Soy ... I don't use a lot of soy, because I don't eat rice. I eat tofu when invited, but it's not all that fun. I haven't felt the need to take a stand on soy, really.
About alcohol – I can't stand the taste, so it's out of the question, no matter how healthful some of it may be.
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Undercover, as far I know, they have stopped using hormones in chickens in Europe, but I will check that.
I figure we basically have to eat veggies, veggies, veggies and more veggies. USDA recommends 7 servings a day anyway, but for people like us I have seen 10 servings recommended by many. 10 half-cups of veggies is a lot of food. I have been trying to work up to that much fruit and veggie and I am finding it difficult. If I succeed, there won't be room for much else in my diet.
Both for protein and omega-3, I eat fish, especially sardines. I like canned sardines and they are easy and cheap. Down here you can easily get them packed in olive oil. I also eat nuts every day.
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Momie, I have found also that if I eat primarily off the anti cancer food list, I don'thave a lot of room left for other stuff either. I kind of take the food as medicine approach.
Fat-depends on what type, and where it is from. Some fat is essential and good other types, not so much.
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Merilee, since we live in Greece, we use olive oil for everything, including baking. As far as I know, olive oil is ok.
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MOMINE-Some fish is good,the kind w/out mercury. The fat in avocados and nuts is good in "moderation". That word sure gets thrown around a lot except when it comes to veggies. I don't know how they expect us to survive only on veggies. I love them but how many times a day can you eat broccoli? As far as euro chicken goes I think it's only in the states that they try to poison us. DH is from europe and told me they don't allow a lot of the chemicals that the states allow in the food. Maybe we have to move to europe if we want to live. MANDALALA-It wouldn't be so confusing if they would stop changing the food rules on us. A study from Cedars-Sinai just said one glass of red wine per day is good for BC. Really,because I thought they just backed up a 40 yr study on the evils of alcohol. In that study it said alcohol is bad for BC. Then a day after that I read rats given a huge quantity of alcohol saw their tumours shrink. But the catch-a human would have to become an alcoholic to achieve that result. Well that clears everything up. One contradiction after another. I'm just eliminating bad things that are known to be bad e.g. sugar,fatty foods,artificial anything,even soy,taking no risks at this point. And almost all dairy,meats etc that could/do have hormones. I have a vegetarian sis and a vegan bro so between the 2 i've got some good ideas of what I can eat and actually like.
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Yep, it is a challenge for sure. The hardest for me is bread. I can eliminate potatoes, rice and pasta, but it is really difficult for me not to eat bread. For the time being I do eat some bread, but stick to very hardcore wholegrain bread from an artisanal baker.
The other thing I can't quite figure out is breakfast. I am so used to eating muesli. It is a "good" muesli that has no added fat or sugar, but it is grains and dried fruits, so basically a bomb of starch and carbs. The last few days I have done whole grain oats cooked with skim milk and walnuts. But that is still grain. If I make an egg, I want bread with it and eating only fruit doesn't quite cut it for me either.
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Just wanted to add that I signed up for the diabetes association's meal plans and stuff. I do not have diabetes, but all their recipes have counts of carbs and there is a lot of useful info on the site about carb counting.
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Momine- you can super charge your bread by making herb oils to dunk it in. One of my favorites is Olive oil, parsley, garlic, red pepper flakes and a small bit of grated fresh Parmesan. Let it set over night and you will have a wonderful antioxidant packed dunk for your bread- All about balance, when you do bread this way, the health benefits trump. Also whole grains and oats do good work in the colon to take up estrogen (and other yucky things) and carry it out rather than letting it re-uptake.
You can sweeten your morning oat meal with a nice organic banana or some berries. Adding nuts is great. One of my favorite breakfasts.
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I removed sugar from my diet and use stevia instead. Maybe once a month I do eat though a bought pie or some ice-cream. Otherwise I use stevia even for baking.
I was never a red meat eater - I might eat beef once or twice a year and that is when I go to someone's house. Not crazy about chicken much either. I usually eat lean ham (pork or turkey) or lean pork (rarely).
I DO eat cheese (I'm not French but I'm from Europe too, hard to ditch it lol) and I eat lots of fruits and veggies. To be honest, except for replacing the sugar with stevia I did not change much my diet compared to pre-BC. I remember a couple year before that a co-worker who was going exasperated that I wouldn't join the "let's go for lunch" thing unless they were going where there was a salad bar said "you eat disgustingly healthy". Oh well. I'm the kind of person who would choose a bowl of salad over a steak, not by health-consciousness but out of pure preference. I've been like this since I was a child - mom had to coax me to eat my meat, not my veggies.
I DO use sometimes ground flax seed, I make my bread mostly at home (my dearest BF got me a bread maker) and I usually add also wheat germ and wheat bran (sometimes herbs and other things, especially in summer when they are fresh from the garden).
I generally inspect all labels when I buy something, and avoid buying anything that contains sugar, fructose syrup, corn syrup, soy, canola oil, corn oil, soy oil. Doesn't leave me a lot of choice, in truth, but oh well, I don't miss on many things due to my eating style.
I do use extra-virgin olive oil. Organic fat-free milk. Organic fat-free Greek yogurt. I drink coffee, about 2-3 cups of 1/2 caf a day.
Veggies of choice are - raw: cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, cucumbers, onions, avocado, mushrooms, zucchini, carrots; cooked: cabbage, cauliflower, zucchini, turnips, beets, carrots, parsnip, squash, very rarely potatoes.
Fruits of choice: melon, watermelon, grapes, bananas.
My only sin is chocolate.
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I am grateful for this thread. I am an almost vegetarian (I will eat fish but not meat, poultry, etc). I am so mixed up about what I can eat.
I used to eat soy--now everytime I read something there is a different opinion on soy. About the only thing I have learned is that milk and milk products in and of themselves contain estrogen. It is just an ingredient of milk and organic milk is not better than non organic milk in terms of estrogen. Skim milk is better because most of the estrogen is in the fat (this information is taken right from a 2005 Harvard study which examined milk). So I have reduced my dairy intake to almost nothing and since I love cheese, that has been difficult.
I hope to hear what the thoughts of others are.
Mandy
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I am low fat and low carb. 10-15 servings of fruits and veggies every day (2-3 are fruits, the rest veggies). I do not eat meat, dairy, or sugar. No white flour or white potatoes. I eat soy, though - tempeh specifically. Fermented soy products are supposed to be extremely beneficial for us. I have to say, my energy has been great, even during chemo and I have lost 10 pounds since diagnosis and kept it off. I also exercise every day, cardio or yoga or both.
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Meriless, thanks for the tips. One good thing for me is that I never had much of a sweet tooth. I am ok with eating the oatmeal as is. For some taste I add some cinnamon, but don't feel the need for sugar. Berries sound good though, so I might try that.
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Day, like you I never had a particularly bad diet, but it was high in carbs, and I think I need to adjust that part. I also used to eat quite a bit of meat, so ditto for that.
Mandy, thanks for the milk info, makes sense.
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Sweetbean, wow! that is an impressive amount of veggies. Do you eat a lot of them raw?
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Merilee, you reminded me of a spread/sauce/dip thing I made during chemo. I would take a bunch of parsley and blend it with lemon juice, garlic and olive oil. I should make it again. It is very good on steamed veggies or plain broiled fish, also as a spread on bread instead of mayo or butter.
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Great suggestions here - I'm going to copy them and add to my grocery list!
One thing about soy - for years I've gotten soy milk by the case from Costco. Used it on my cereal, in my decaf coffee, in my smoothies....
When I saw the Oncologist last week and got my Rx for Arimidex, I asked her about that. She told me to switch to lactose-free milk, preferably organic, as she didn't want me to use soy milk as my main source of milk.
Then I asked her about all the thousands of other products that listed "soy something" farther down in the list of ingredients, and she said those were o.k.
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I have found this website to be helpful.
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Momine, here are some cereal-free breakfast tips: Fruit salad with or without Greek yoghurt; avocado; slices of horse radish with cheese or tahin (like little sandwiches). And nuts, of course! Nuts only, or nuts with any of the above. Walnuts are supposed to be good – rich in Omega3 and less carbs than other nuts.
Day, here is another stevia user! I use it mostly in herb teas. (But in Sweden, it's sold for skin care, as it isn't approved for foods yet. I wonder what it is supposed to do to your skin.)
Edit: Wrong – stevia was approved in EU December 2, 2011.
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Cancer loves sugar and fat.....my friend was told that by a very big cancer dr.
I quit all dairy products after my 3rd.surgery and to my amazement did not have a migraine since.Had them for about 40 yrs.
I eat coconut oil daily,drink almond milk,also drink coconut water.The biggest problem is veggies.I dont eat much of them as they run right through me...many stomach issues.
AND...after reading all the do this dont do that im so confused im eating fish,chicken and peanut butter...lots of it.all organic of course.and dark chocolate(just a drop every day)
bc sure does suk!!!!!!find a damn cure.....
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I was doing great with my diet during the chemo treatments. Once I finished, my diet has not been that good. I would like again to quit sugar and cheese and eat more vegetables and fruit. I also try to take supplemets such as turmeric, grape seed extract, coq10 and a very potent multivitamin. Of course I heard that supplements do not help that much unless a healthy diet is eaten.
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Momto, thanks for that list. That is helpful
Mandalala, I guess yogurt would be ok if it were fat free?
As far as chocolate, a little dark chocolate is supposed to be good for all kinds of things, including cancer.
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Mkw1 - on the list of supplements from my onc not to take with tamoxifen is resveratrol which I think is grape seed extract. If you're on tamoxifen you may want to verify if ok with your doc.
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Momine probably depends on the type of yogurt. A lot of yogurts are made from dairy/cow, which would still have all of the "hormone implications". It is my understanding that the animal/dairy has hormones 1.) from injections, if not organic. And 2.) the animals are milked during pregnancy when hormone rates are the highest, would also apply to organic. I like Cultured Almondmilk. The brand I buy is Amande. It contains 6 live cultures. After you open it, you need to stir it good. The texture is slightly different from the standard yogurt, but I am used to it now and don't notice it anymore. I like all of the flavors (there is only 6 or 7 flavors). The coconut flavor is very yummy! Both of the health food stores I shop at carry it. (1.49 is the regular price. Last month it was on sale BOGO free!)
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